Everything I said last night came out wrong. I think you very well may be right, and that a significant part of the negative effect we're seeing for the 4th quarter is selection bias. And, obviously, the developmental player stats seem to indicate that bad developmental players aren't the problem. But I think there may be a significant difference between the good d.p.'s, and the ones who aren't ready yet. Here's the total list, organized by minutes: Code: Min +/- Perkins, Troy 1440 -5 Jewsbury, Jack 1406 3 Cila, Jordan 1310 3 Graham, Taylor 750 4 Arena, Kenny 707 -4 Clanton, Denny 500 -3 Ritch, Michael 397 6 Dorman, Andy 365 -3 Sullivan, Gary 339 -1 Aloisi, Chris 281 3 Wells, Zach 180 -1 Detter, Justin 162 -1 Dombrowski, T 44 -2 Sutton, Jamal 5 -1 Traeger, Jake 3 0 Vercollone, L 2 -1 Thompson, Scot 1 0 Foss, Byron 0 0 Singer, Kyle 0 0 Pickens, Matt 0 0 Pilarski, Ian 0 0 Erush, Michael 0 0 Maurin, Ty 0 0 Hesmer, Will 0 0 If you divide the good from the bad between Denny Clanton and Michael Ritch, you get: Code: Min +/- 1 6113 -2 -0.03 2 1779 -1 -0.05 If you draw it between Ritch and Dorman, you get: Code: Min +/- 1 6510 4 0.06 2 1382 -7 -0.46 So while it's clear that developmental players aren't the only players contributing to the effect, it is certainly possible that there's significant differences among this group. If you're curious, the non-DP players who in q.4 with negative +/-'s were: Code: Maisonneuve, B Columbus 427 -2 Stokes, David D.C. United 410 -7 Roberts, Zizi Colorado 363 -1 Griffin, L Chicago 330 -2 Lewis, Ricky Colorado 289 -2 Goodson, C Dallas 247 -2 Moore, Joe-Max New England 246 -2 Walker, Jamil San Jose 237 -2 Kante, Daouda New England 222 -5 Howey, Steve New England 193 -2 Wells, Zach Metrostars 180 -1 Boucicaut, Alex Chicago 164 -2 Stone, Jordan Dallas 145 -2 Scott, Erick Columbus 143 -2 Castellanos, D Colorado 132 -2 Ara, Kevin D.C. United 114 -5 Nunez, Ramon Dallas 107 -4 Kuffour, Nana D.C. United 90 -3 Preki Kansas City 90 -3 Warren, Doug D.C. United 90 -1 Thompson, Jason D.C. United 60 -3 Cannon, G.R. D.C. United 35 -2 Carrieri, Chris Chicago 34 -1 Cann, Adrian Colorado 11 -1
so as far as starters go, from that file, this is most starts by club Code: club player starts minutes Chicago Curtin, Jim 30 2700.0 Chicago Ring, Henry 28 2520.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani 25 2234.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. 24 2130.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 23 2065.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 23 1982.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 21 1749.0 Chicago Armas, Chris 20 1776.0 Chicago Whitfield, Evan 19 1592.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 19 1537.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 19 1449.0 Chicago Beasley, DaMarcus 14 1260.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando 13 1032.0 Chicago Razov, Ante 11 955.0 Chicago Marsch, Jesse 8 656.0 Chicago Buete, Scott 8 633.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny 6 428.0 Chicago Selolwane, Dipsy 5 395.0 Chicago Capano, Craig 4 304.0 Chicago Herron, Andy 3 265.0 Chicago Griffin, Leonard 3 176.0 Chicago Countess, D.J. 2 180.0 Chicago Boucicaut, Alexandre 1 90.0 Chicago Ibrahim, Sumed 1 55.0 Colorado Cannon, Joe 30 2700.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat 29 2612.0 Colorado Henderson, Chris 29 2562.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 28 2520.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio 28 2409.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie 26 2319.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle 25 2133.0 Colorado Chung, Mark 21 1869.0 Colorado Spencer, John 19 1639.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo 17 1467.0 Colorado Peguero, Jean Philippe 16 1329.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan 15 1132.0 Colorado Powell, Daryl 12 983.0 Colorado Delgado, Alberto 9 671.0 Colorado Trembly, Seth 5 415.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey 5 304.0 Colorado Roberts, Zizi 4 359.0 Colorado Sullivan, Gary 4 256.0 Colorado Lewis, Ricky 3 253.0 Colorado Martinez, Rey Angel 3 221.0 Colorado Castellanos, David 1 69.0 Colorado Kingsley, Zach 1 44.0 Columbus Busch, Jon 29 2610.0 Columbus Fraser, Robin 28 2520.0 Columbus Marshall, Chad 27 2430.0 Columbus Martino, Kyle 27 2253.0 Columbus Elliott, Simon 26 2340.0 Columbus Paule, Ross 23 2026.0 Columbus Oughton, Duncan 21 1886.0 Columbus Buddle, Edson 20 1602.0 Columbus Hejduk, Frankie 19 1623.0 Columbus Cunningham, Jeff 19 1614.0 Columbus Akwari, Nelson 16 1352.0 Columbus Wingert, Chris 16 1345.0 Columbus Denton, Eric 16 1288.0 Columbus Herdsman, Steven 8 676.0 Columbus Lagos, Manny 8 631.0 Columbus Sanneh, Tony 6 513.0 Columbus Maisonneuve, Brian 5 360.0 Columbus Szetela, Danny 4 348.0 Columbus Testo, David 4 284.0 Columbus Ritch, Michael 4 265.0 Columbus Scott, Erick 2 114.0 Columbus Jordan, Matt 1 90.0 Columbus Barclay, Devin 1 70.0 Dallas O'brien, Ronnie 29 2581.0 Dallas Jolley, Steve 28 2428.0 Dallas Valakari, Simo 26 2297.0 Dallas Johnson, Edward 25 2242.0 Dallas Davis, Brad 24 1845.0 Dallas Gibbs, Cory 21 1850.0 Dallas Gbandi, Chris 20 1715.0 Dallas Talley, Carey 19 1654.0 Dallas Cassar, Jeff 19 1632.0 Dallas Kreis, Jason 19 1538.0 Dallas Salyer, Philip 16 1371.0 Dallas Quill, Eric 16 1240.0 Dallas Behncke, Matt 14 1223.0 Dallas Nhleko, Toni 13 1020.0 Dallas Pareja, Oscar 12 887.0 Dallas Garlick, Scott 11 990.0 Dallas Reyes, Milton 9 777.0 Dallas Rhine, Bobby 6 436.0 Dallas Goodson, Clarence 2 170.0 Dallas Stone, Jordan 1 90.0 DC United Namoff, Bryan 27 2385.0 DC United Moreno, Jaime 27 2279.0 DC United Carroll, Brian 26 2340.0 DC United Kovalenko, Dema 25 2163.0 DC United Olsen, Ben 25 2046.0 DC United Stewart, Earnie 23 1982.0 DC United Petke, Mike 23 1970.0 DC United Gros, Joshua 21 1869.0 DC United Eskandarian, Alecko 19 1491.0 DC United Nelsen, Ryan 17 1418.0 DC United Perkins, Troy 16 1440.0 DC United Prideaux, Brandon 16 1383.0 DC United Adu, Freddy 14 1098.0 DC United Rimando, Nick 13 1170.0 DC United Convey, Bobby 10 823.0 DC United Hendrickson, Ezra 8 701.0 DC United Gomez, Christian 8 564.0 DC United Cerritos, Ronald 6 460.0 DC United Stokes, David 3 270.0 DC United Ara, Kevin 1 90.0 DC United Warren, Doug 1 90.0 DC United Kuffour, Nana 1 55.0 Kansas City Arnaud, Davy 30 2626.0 Kansas City Conrad, Jimmy 29 2610.0 Kansas City Gutierrez, Diego 28 2520.0 Kansas City Garcia, Nick 26 2296.0 Kansas City Wolff, Josh 25 2226.0 Kansas City Zavagnin, Kerry 24 2160.0 Kansas City Thomas, Shavar 22 1836.0 Kansas City Meola, Tony 21 1890.0 Kansas City Burciaga, Jose 21 1761.0 Kansas City Zotinca, Alex 20 1715.0 Kansas City Klein, Chris 19 1694.0 Kansas City Jewsbury, Jack 15 1234.0 Kansas City Walsh, Diego 11 631.0 Kansas City Gomez, Francisco 10 718.0 Kansas City Oshoniyi, Bo 9 810.0 Kansas City Graham, Taylor 7 580.0 Kansas City Simutenkov, Igor 5 339.0 Kansas City Taylor, Matt 4 279.0 Kansas City Detter, Justin 2 122.0 Kansas City Preki 1 46.0 Kansas City Rasovic, Vuk 1 46.0 Los Angeles Hartman, Kevin 30 2657.0 Los Angeles Victorine, Sasha 25 2220.0 Los Angeles Suarez, Ryan 25 2132.0 Los Angeles Herzog, Andreas 25 1983.0 Los Angeles Albright, Chris 24 2111.0 Los Angeles Saragosa, Marcelo 24 2080.0 Los Angeles Kirovski, Jovan 23 1939.0 Los Angeles Broome, Paul 20 1718.0 Los Angeles Jones, Cobi 20 1651.0 Los Angeles Ruiz, Carlos 18 1545.0 Los Angeles Marshall, Tyrone 17 1421.0 Los Angeles Moreno, Alejandro 12 1021.0 Los Angeles Grabavoy, Ned 11 868.0 Los Angeles Vagenas, Peter 10 881.0 Los Angeles Califf, Danny 10 806.0 Los Angeles Myung-Bo, Hong 9 762.0 Los Angeles Lewis, Ricky 8 676.0 Los Angeles Ngwenya, Joseph 8 593.0 Los Angeles Torres, Arturo 5 318.0 Los Angeles Aloisi, Chris 3 270.0 Los Angeles Gordon, Alan 2 141.0 Los Angeles Gonzalez, Guillermo 1 54.0 Metrostars Leitch, Chris 29 2610.0 Metrostars Gaven, Eddie 29 2579.0 Metrostars Walker, Jonny 28 2520.0 Metrostars Parke, Jeff 27 2386.0 Metrostars Guevara, Amado 23 2068.0 Metrostars Wolyniec, John 23 1932.0 Metrostars Pope, Eddie 22 1928.0 Metrostars Vaca, Joselito 20 1621.0 Metrostars Clark, Ricardo 19 1673.0 Metrostars Magee, Mike 18 1459.0 Metrostars Ziadie, Craig 14 1238.0 Metrostars Bonseu, Tenywa 13 1119.0 Metrostars Glen, Cornell 10 723.0 Metrostars Galvan Rey, Sergio 10 692.0 Metrostars Arena, Kenny 8 678.0 Metrostars Lisi, Mark 8 663.0 Metrostars Taylor, Fabian 8 558.0 Metrostars Regan, Tim 7 541.0 Metrostars Flores, Gilberto 7 452.0 Metrostars Brenes, Pablo 5 449.0 Metrostars Wells, Zach 2 180.0 New England Ralston, Steve 30 2700.0 New England Noonan, Pat 29 2575.0 New England Heaps, Jay 26 2340.0 New England Cancela, Jose 24 1935.0 New England Reis, Matt 23 2070.0 New England Twellman, Taylor 23 2050.0 New England Joseph, Shalrie 23 2033.0 New England Dempsey, Clint 23 2017.0 New England Leonard, Marshall 22 1948.0 New England Franchino, Joe 20 1694.0 New England Kamler, Brian 20 1588.0 New England John, Avery 19 1710.0 New England Pierce, Rusty 13 1166.0 New England Baker, Richie 11 824.0 New England Brown, Adin 7 586.0 New England Brillant, Felix 6 513.0 New England Moore, Joe-Max 3 246.0 New England Kante, Daouda 3 218.0 New England Howey, Steve 3 194.0 New England Dorman, Andy 2 180.0 San Jose Mulrooney, Richard 30 2700.0 San Jose Mullan, Brian 28 2408.0 San Jose Corrales, Ramiro 28 2397.0 San Jose Onstad, Pat 25 2250.0 San Jose Agoos, Jeff 24 2152.0 San Jose Ekelund, Ronnie 24 1986.0 San Jose Waibel, Craig 23 2005.0 San Jose Donovan, Landon 22 1973.0 San Jose Ching, Brian 21 1877.0 San Jose Cochrane, Ryan 18 1460.0 San Jose Dayak, Troy 15 1322.0 San Jose Dunivant, Todd 13 1139.0 San Jose Hart, Wes 13 1131.0 San Jose De Rosario, Dwayne 12 988.0 San Jose Russell, Ian 12 895.0 San Jose Brown, Chris 7 460.0 San Jose Robinson, Eddie 6 428.0 San Jose Conway, Jon 5 450.0 San Jose Alvarez, Arturo 2 152.0 San Jose Walker, Jamil 2 139.0
obviously from minutes played file, have no idea of starting formations, etc., either, but if you call G 1, D 2-5, M 6-9 and F 10,11 then Code: club player class starts minutes Chicago Curtin, Jim D 30 2700.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. D 24 2130.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly D 20 1795.0 Chicago Whitfield, Evan D 19 1592.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin D 6 483.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate D 5 396.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando D 5 389.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny D 5 338.0 Chicago Griffin, Leonard D 3 176.0 Chicago Williams, Andy D 2 175.0 Chicago Pause, Logan D 1 90.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani F 24 2144.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate F 12 1003.0 Chicago Razov, Ante F 11 955.0 Chicago Selolwane, Dipsy F 5 395.0 Chicago Herron, Andy F 3 265.0 Chicago Boucicaut, Alexandre F 1 90.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly F 1 90.0 Chicago Williams, Andy F 1 73.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin F 1 66.0 Chicago Ibrahim, Sumed F 1 55.0 Chicago Ring, Henry G 28 2520.0 Chicago Countess, D.J. G 2 180.0 Chicago Armas, Chris M 20 1776.0 Chicago Williams, Andy M 20 1734.0 Chicago Pause, Logan M 18 1359.0 Chicago Beasley, DaMarcus M 14 1260.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin M 12 988.0 Chicago Marsch, Jesse M 8 656.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando M 8 643.0 Chicago Buete, Scott M 8 633.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate M 4 350.0 Chicago Capano, Craig M 4 304.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly M 2 180.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny M 1 90.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani M 1 90.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat D 29 2612.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie D 26 2319.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio D 24 2090.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt D 18 1620.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo D 10 900.0 Colorado Sullivan, Gary D 4 256.0 Colorado Lewis, Ricky D 3 253.0 Colorado Powell, Daryl D 3 178.0 Colorado Spencer, John D 1 90.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle D 1 74.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey D 1 62.0 Colorado Spencer, John F 18 1549.0 Colorado Peguero, Jean Philippe F 16 1329.0 Colorado Delgado, Alberto F 9 671.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan F 6 467.0 Colorado Roberts, Zizi F 4 359.0 Colorado Chung, Mark F 2 180.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey F 2 126.0 Colorado Henderson, Chris F 1 90.0 Colorado Martinez, Rey Angel F 1 89.0 Colorado Castellanos, David F 1 69.0 Colorado Cannon, Joe G 30 2700.0 Colorado Henderson, Chris M 28 2472.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle M 24 2059.0 Colorado Chung, Mark M 19 1689.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt M 10 900.0 Colorado Powell, Daryl M 9 805.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan M 9 665.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo M 7 567.0 Colorado Trembly, Seth M 5 415.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio M 4 319.0 Colorado Martinez, Rey Angel M 2 132.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey M 2 116.0 Colorado Kingsley, Zach M 1 44.0 Columbus Fraser, Robin D 28 2520.0 Columbus Marshall, Chad D 27 2430.0 Columbus Akwari, Nelson D 16 1352.0 Columbus Hejduk, Frankie D 14 1226.0 Columbus Oughton, Duncan D 13 1168.0 Columbus Herdsman, Steven D 8 676.0 Columbus Denton, Eric D 5 412.0 Columbus Wingert, Chris D 4 357.0 Columbus Elliott, Simon D 2 180.0 Columbus Sanneh, Tony D 1 90.0 Columbus Szetela, Danny D 1 90.0 Columbus Testo, David D 1 74.0 Columbus Buddle, Edson F 20 1602.0 Columbus Cunningham, Jeff F 19 1614.0 Columbus Martino, Kyle F 12 985.0 Columbus Ritch, Michael F 4 265.0 Columbus Testo, David F 3 210.0 Columbus Scott, Erick F 2 114.0 Columbus Busch, Jon G 29 2610.0 Columbus Jordan, Matt G 1 90.0 Columbus Elliott, Simon M 24 2160.0 Columbus Paule, Ross M 23 2026.0 Columbus Martino, Kyle M 15 1268.0 Columbus Wingert, Chris M 12 988.0 Columbus Denton, Eric M 11 876.0 Columbus Oughton, Duncan M 8 718.0 Columbus Lagos, Manny M 8 631.0 Columbus Sanneh, Tony M 5 423.0 Columbus Hejduk, Frankie M 5 397.0 Columbus Maisonneuve, Brian M 5 360.0 Columbus Szetela, Danny M 3 258.0 Columbus Barclay, Devin M 1 70.0 Dallas Jolley, Steve D 28 2428.0 Dallas Gibbs, Cory D 21 1850.0 Dallas Gbandi, Chris D 20 1715.0 Dallas Salyer, Philip D 16 1371.0 Dallas Behncke, Matt D 14 1223.0 Dallas Talley, Carey D 12 1067.0 Dallas Reyes, Milton D 6 507.0 Dallas Goodson, Clarence D 2 170.0 Dallas Quill, Eric D 1 80.0 Dallas Johnson, Edward F 23 2062.0 Dallas Kreis, Jason F 19 1538.0 Dallas Nhleko, Toni F 12 936.0 Dallas Rhine, Bobby F 4 265.0 Dallas O'brien, Ronnie F 1 90.0 Dallas Quill, Eric F 1 89.0 Dallas Cassar, Jeff G 19 1632.0 Dallas Garlick, Scott G 11 990.0 Dallas O'brien, Ronnie M 28 2491.0 Dallas Valakari, Simo M 26 2297.0 Dallas Davis, Brad M 24 1845.0 Dallas Quill, Eric M 14 1071.0 Dallas Pareja, Oscar M 12 887.0 Dallas Talley, Carey M 7 587.0 Dallas Reyes, Milton M 3 270.0 Dallas Johnson, Edward M 2 180.0 Dallas Rhine, Bobby M 2 171.0 Dallas Stone, Jordan M 1 90.0 Dallas Nhleko, Toni M 1 84.0 DC United Namoff, Bryan D 27 2385.0 DC United Petke, Mike D 23 1970.0 DC United Nelsen, Ryan D 17 1418.0 DC United Prideaux, Brandon D 16 1383.0 DC United Stewart, Earnie D 15 1288.0 DC United Hendrickson, Ezra D 7 611.0 DC United Gros, Joshua D 4 360.0 DC United Stokes, David D 3 270.0 DC United Kovalenko, Dema D 3 263.0 DC United Carroll, Brian D 2 180.0 DC United Convey, Bobby D 2 179.0 DC United Gomez, Christian D 1 88.0 DC United Moreno, Jaime F 24 2009.0 DC United Eskandarian, Alecko F 19 1491.0 DC United Adu, Freddy F 9 677.0 DC United Cerritos, Ronald F 6 460.0 DC United Gomez, Christian F 1 79.0 DC United Stewart, Earnie F 1 64.0 DC United Perkins, Troy G 16 1440.0 DC United Rimando, Nick G 13 1170.0 DC United Warren, Doug G 1 90.0 DC United Olsen, Ben M 25 2046.0 DC United Carroll, Brian M 24 2160.0 DC United Kovalenko, Dema M 22 1900.0 DC United Gros, Joshua M 17 1509.0 DC United Convey, Bobby M 8 644.0 DC United Stewart, Earnie M 7 630.0 DC United Gomez, Christian M 6 397.0 DC United Adu, Freddy M 5 421.0 DC United Moreno, Jaime M 3 270.0 DC United Ara, Kevin M 1 90.0 DC United Hendrickson, Ezra M 1 90.0 DC United Kuffour, Nana M 1 55.0 Kansas City Conrad, Jimmy D 29 2610.0 Kansas City Garcia, Nick D 25 2206.0 Kansas City Thomas, Shavar D 22 1836.0 Kansas City Zotinca, Alex D 16 1370.0 Kansas City Burciaga, Jose D 15 1266.0 Kansas City Graham, Taylor D 7 580.0 Kansas City Gutierrez, Diego D 5 450.0 Kansas City Rasovic, Vuk D 1 46.0 Kansas City Arnaud, Davy F 28 2446.0 Kansas City Wolff, Josh F 25 2226.0 Kansas City Taylor, Matt F 3 192.0 Kansas City Detter, Justin F 2 122.0 Kansas City Simutenkov, Igor F 1 89.0 Kansas City Walsh, Diego F 1 63.0 Kansas City Meola, Tony G 21 1890.0 Kansas City Oshoniyi, Bo G 9 810.0 Kansas City Zavagnin, Kerry M 24 2160.0 Kansas City Gutierrez, Diego M 23 2070.0 Kansas City Klein, Chris M 19 1694.0 Kansas City Jewsbury, Jack M 15 1234.0 Kansas City Gomez, Francisco M 10 718.0 Kansas City Walsh, Diego M 10 568.0 Kansas City Burciaga, Jose M 6 495.0 Kansas City Zotinca, Alex M 4 345.0 Kansas City Simutenkov, Igor M 4 250.0 Kansas City Arnaud, Davy M 2 180.0 Kansas City Garcia, Nick M 1 90.0 Kansas City Taylor, Matt M 1 87.0 Kansas City Preki M 1 46.0 Los Angeles Suarez, Ryan D 25 2132.0 Los Angeles Albright, Chris D 24 2111.0 Los Angeles Broome, Paul D 20 1718.0 Los Angeles Marshall, Tyrone D 17 1421.0 Los Angeles Califf, Danny D 10 806.0 Los Angeles Myung-Bo, Hong D 9 762.0 Los Angeles Lewis, Ricky D 8 676.0 Los Angeles Victorine, Sasha D 4 360.0 Los Angeles Aloisi, Chris D 3 270.0 Los Angeles Kirovski, Jovan F 20 1670.0 Los Angeles Ruiz, Carlos F 18 1545.0 Los Angeles Moreno, Alejandro F 11 960.0 Los Angeles Ngwenya, Joseph F 5 418.0 Los Angeles Victorine, Sasha F 2 150.0 Los Angeles Gordon, Alan F 2 141.0 Los Angeles Herzog, Andreas F 2 110.0 Los Angeles Hartman, Kevin G 30 2657.0 Los Angeles Saragosa, Marcelo M 24 2080.0 Los Angeles Herzog, Andreas M 23 1873.0 Los Angeles Jones, Cobi M 20 1651.0 Los Angeles Victorine, Sasha M 19 1710.0 Los Angeles Grabavoy, Ned M 11 868.0 Los Angeles Vagenas, Peter M 10 881.0 Los Angeles Torres, Arturo M 5 318.0 Los Angeles Kirovski, Jovan M 3 269.0 Los Angeles Ngwenya, Joseph M 3 175.0 Los Angeles Moreno, Alejandro M 1 61.0 Los Angeles Gonzalez, Guillermo M 1 54.0 Metrostars Parke, Jeff D 27 2386.0 Metrostars Leitch, Chris D 26 2340.0 Metrostars Pope, Eddie D 21 1838.0 Metrostars Ziadie, Craig D 14 1238.0 Metrostars Bonseu, Tenywa D 13 1119.0 Metrostars Arena, Kenny D 7 617.0 Metrostars Regan, Tim D 5 361.0 Metrostars Clark, Ricardo D 3 270.0 Metrostars Vaca, Joselito D 2 110.0 Metrostars Magee, Mike D 1 90.0 Metrostars Brenes, Pablo D 1 89.0 Metrostars Wolyniec, John F 22 1842.0 Metrostars Glen, Cornell F 10 723.0 Metrostars Magee, Mike F 8 568.0 Metrostars Taylor, Fabian F 8 558.0 Metrostars Galvan Rey, Sergio F 7 477.0 Metrostars Gaven, Eddie F 4 360.0 Metrostars Guevara, Amado F 1 90.0 Metrostars Walker, Jonny G 28 2520.0 Metrostars Wells, Zach G 2 180.0 Metrostars Gaven, Eddie M 25 2219.0 Metrostars Guevara, Amado M 22 1978.0 Metrostars Vaca, Joselito M 18 1511.0 Metrostars Clark, Ricardo M 16 1403.0 Metrostars Magee, Mike M 9 801.0 Metrostars Lisi, Mark M 8 663.0 Metrostars Flores, Gilberto M 7 452.0 Metrostars Brenes, Pablo M 4 360.0 Metrostars Leitch, Chris M 3 270.0 Metrostars Galvan Rey, Sergio M 3 215.0 Metrostars Regan, Tim M 2 180.0 Metrostars Pope, Eddie M 1 90.0 Metrostars Wolyniec, John M 1 90.0 Metrostars Arena, Kenny M 1 61.0 New England Heaps, Jay D 26 2340.0 New England John, Avery D 18 1620.0 New England Leonard, Marshall D 18 1611.0 New England Ralston, Steve D 13 1170.0 New England Pierce, Rusty D 13 1166.0 New England Franchino, Joe D 8 675.0 New England Joseph, Shalrie D 7 609.0 New England Kamler, Brian D 7 536.0 New England Dempsey, Clint D 3 246.0 New England Kante, Daouda D 3 218.0 New England Howey, Steve D 3 194.0 New England Cancela, Jose D 1 90.0 New England Noonan, Pat F 24 2125.0 New England Twellman, Taylor F 23 2050.0 New England Dempsey, Clint F 5 450.0 New England Brillant, Felix F 5 437.0 New England Moore, Joe-Max F 2 160.0 New England Leonard, Marshall F 1 90.0 New England Reis, Matt G 23 2070.0 New England Brown, Adin G 7 586.0 New England Cancela, Jose M 23 1845.0 New England Ralston, Steve M 17 1530.0 New England Joseph, Shalrie M 16 1424.0 New England Dempsey, Clint M 15 1321.0 New England Kamler, Brian M 13 1052.0 New England Franchino, Joe M 12 1019.0 New England Baker, Richie M 11 824.0 New England Noonan, Pat M 5 450.0 New England Leonard, Marshall M 3 247.0 New England Dorman, Andy M 2 180.0 New England John, Avery M 1 90.0 New England Moore, Joe-Max M 1 86.0 New England Brillant, Felix M 1 76.0 San Jose Agoos, Jeff D 24 2152.0 San Jose Waibel, Craig D 23 2005.0 San Jose Cochrane, Ryan D 18 1460.0 San Jose Dayak, Troy D 15 1322.0 San Jose Dunivant, Todd D 13 1139.0 San Jose Hart, Wes D 12 1041.0 San Jose Corrales, Ramiro D 8 720.0 San Jose Robinson, Eddie D 6 428.0 San Jose Donovan, Landon D 1 90.0 San Jose Ching, Brian F 20 1787.0 San Jose Donovan, Landon F 17 1523.0 San Jose De Rosario, Dwayne F 12 988.0 San Jose Brown, Chris F 4 266.0 San Jose Mullan, Brian F 2 179.0 San Jose Walker, Jamil F 2 139.0 San Jose Russell, Ian F 2 87.0 San Jose Corrales, Ramiro F 1 90.0 San Jose Onstad, Pat G 25 2250.0 San Jose Conway, Jon G 5 450.0 San Jose Mulrooney, Richard M 30 2700.0 San Jose Mullan, Brian M 26 2229.0 San Jose Ekelund, Ronnie M 24 1986.0 San Jose Corrales, Ramiro M 19 1587.0 San Jose Russell, Ian M 10 808.0 San Jose Donovan, Landon M 4 360.0 San Jose Brown, Chris M 3 194.0 San Jose Alvarez, Arturo M 2 152.0 San Jose Ching, Brian M 1 90.0 San Jose Hart, Wes M 1 90.0
or actual position numbers Code: club player position starts minutes Chicago Ring, Henry 1 28 2520.0 Chicago Countess, D.J. 1 2 180.0 Chicago Whitfield, Evan 2 15 1237.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 2 7 630.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. 2 5 450.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny 2 2 136.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando 2 1 90.0 Chicago Curtin, Jim 3 23 2070.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. 3 6 540.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny 3 1 22.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. 4 10 870.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 4 9 805.0 Chicago Curtin, Jim 4 7 630.0 Chicago Whitfield, Evan 4 2 175.0 Chicago Griffin, Leonard 4 2 130.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 5 6 483.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 5 5 396.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 5 4 360.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando 5 4 299.0 Chicago Brown, C.J. 5 3 270.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny 5 2 180.0 Chicago Whitfield, Evan 5 2 180.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 5 2 175.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 5 1 90.0 Chicago Griffin, Leonard 5 1 46.0 Chicago Armas, Chris 6 12 1073.0 Chicago Buete, Scott 6 6 497.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 6 5 450.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 6 3 260.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 6 2 154.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 6 1 71.0 Chicago Capano, Craig 6 1 55.0 Chicago Armas, Chris 7 6 540.0 Chicago Marsch, Jesse 7 6 476.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 7 6 420.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 7 4 319.0 Chicago Beasley, DaMarcus 7 2 180.0 Chicago Capano, Craig 7 2 179.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 7 2 147.0 Chicago Buete, Scott 7 1 90.0 Chicago Clanton, Denny 7 1 90.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 8 11 965.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 8 10 823.0 Chicago Beasley, DaMarcus 8 3 270.0 Chicago Marsch, Jesse 8 2 180.0 Chicago Armas, Chris 8 1 90.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando 8 1 75.0 Chicago Capano, Craig 8 1 70.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 8 1 63.0 Chicago Beasley, DaMarcus 9 9 810.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 9 7 624.0 Chicago Perez, Orlando 9 7 568.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 9 2 180.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 9 1 90.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani 9 1 90.0 Chicago Armas, Chris 9 1 73.0 Chicago Buete, Scott 9 1 46.0 Chicago Pause, Logan 9 1 45.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani 10 16 1424.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 10 9 788.0 Chicago Herron, Andy 10 2 179.0 Chicago Boucicaut, Alexandre 10 1 90.0 Chicago Selolwane, Dipsy 10 1 90.0 Chicago Razov, Ante 10 1 89.0 Chicago Razov, Ante 11 10 866.0 Chicago Ralph, Damani 11 8 720.0 Chicago Selolwane, Dipsy 11 4 305.0 Chicago Jaqua, Nate 11 3 215.0 Chicago Gray, Kelly 11 1 90.0 Chicago Herron, Andy 11 1 86.0 Chicago Williams, Andy 11 1 73.0 Chicago Mapp, Justin 11 1 66.0 Chicago Ibrahim, Sumed 11 1 55.0 Colorado Cannon, Joe 1 30 2700.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio 2 21 1820.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 2 5 450.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie 2 3 270.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat 2 1 90.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat 3 25 2252.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie 3 2 180.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 3 1 90.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo 3 1 90.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle 3 1 74.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie 4 11 990.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo 4 9 810.0 Colorado Sullivan, Gary 4 4 256.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat 4 2 180.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 4 2 180.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio 4 1 90.0 Colorado Spencer, John 4 1 90.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 5 10 900.0 Colorado Kotschau, Ritchie 5 10 879.0 Colorado Lewis, Ricky 5 3 253.0 Colorado Powell, Daryl 5 3 178.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio 5 2 180.0 Colorado Borchers, Nat 5 1 90.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey 5 1 62.0 Colorado Henderson, Chris 6 23 2022.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 6 2 180.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle 6 1 90.0 Colorado Chung, Mark 6 1 90.0 Colorado Trembly, Seth 6 1 90.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan 6 1 70.0 Colorado Kingsley, Zach 6 1 44.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle 7 21 1789.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan 7 4 341.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 7 2 180.0 Colorado Henderson, Chris 7 2 180.0 Colorado Chung, Mark 7 1 90.0 Colorado Powell, Daryl 8 7 625.0 Colorado Mastroeni, Pablo 8 6 477.0 Colorado Crawford, Matt 8 4 360.0 Colorado de la Torre, Antonio 8 4 319.0 Colorado Beckerman, Kyle 8 2 180.0 Colorado Chung, Mark 8 2 180.0 Colorado Cila, Jordan 8 2 118.0 Colorado Trembly, Seth 8 1 90.0 Colorado DiGiamarino, Joey 8 1 46.0 Colorado Martinez, Rey Angel 8 1 46.0 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Hey, a new post! So, I don't think that, at the moment, the +/- numbers are terrifically useful for evaluating individual players, there's simply too much room for chance. Trends, however, are another thing altogether. So, I tried to look at how age affects +/-. To do this, I started out just rounding everybody's age to the nearest year - I'm not sophisticated enough to figure out how to do it any other way. Next, I made a weighted average of each year's +/- statistics; the weighting favors players who played half available minutes highest (so we have equal with team and without team samples), and players who played all available minutes at 0. What I got indicates, basically, that younger players are better: Code: 19 0.45 20 0.19 21 0.07 22 0.20 23 0.03 24 0.16 25 0.11 26 0.05 27 0.07 28 -0.08 29 0.05 30 0.12 31 -0.32 32 -0.35 33 -0.11 34 -0.30 35 -0.13 36 -0.05 The numbers are striking. Ignoring 19 as an outlier, the correlation between +/- and age is -.72; i.e., the older you are the worse your +/- is. This one factor, age, explains 50% of all the variance in plus/minuses. I didn't go into this expecting to see a simple decline from 22 to 36, but rather to see some peak around 27 or so. I suspect that this peak may in fact exist, and that it's hidden by MLS's structure, where a small subgroup of under 22 players are signed by the league because they are extraordinarily talented. This bias is probably unavoidable in any league or competitive structure, however. Upon further consideration, in league where talent is identified perfectly, the numbers for all age groups should be the same; young players should play as soon as they are as good as average players (or perhaps slightly before), and older players should play only as long as their superior talents can compensate for declining physical abilities. It seems that MLS is doing a very poor job of this at the moment - old players, who both have no prospect of improving and are not above average, still play while not enough youngsters are given the chance. Criticism greatly appreciated.
You can't really assume 4-4-2 listed in order. Immediately, you run into problems with the Chicago Fire - I know Jaqua never played in the back. Didn't the Fire usually play a 3-5-2?
To illustrate the above point, here is a list of the +/-'s of all MLS players over 30 as of August 1: Code: [u]Name[/u] [u]+/-[/u] [u]Age[/u] [u]Confidence[/u] Sanneh, Tony 0.97 33.2 0.38 Pareja, Oscar 0.89 36.0 0.81 Zavagnin, Kerry 0.75 30.1 0.40 Kamler, Brian 0.37 32.5 0.78 Valakari, Simo 0.36 31.3 0.30 Gutierrez, Diego 0.29 31.7 0.13 Pope, Eddie 0.23 30.6 0.57 Simutenkov, Igor 0.15 31.3 0.34 Razov, Ante 0.14 30.4 0.74 Armas, Chris 0.06 31.9 0.65 Myung-Bo, Hong 0.06 35.5 0.64 Powell, Daryl 0.02 32.7 0.75 Dayak, Troy -0.01 33.5 0.99 Marsch, Jesse -0.17 30.7 0.50 Lagos, Manny -0.21 33.1 0.57 Moreno, Jaime -0.21 30.5 0.31 Fraser, Robin -0.25 37.6 0.13 Ekelund, Ronnie -0.26 31.9 0.51 Elliott, Simon -0.29 30.1 0.26 Chung, Mark -0.30 34.1 0.58 Jones, Cobi -0.34 34.1 0.70 Agoos, Jeff -0.37 36.2 0.41 Hendrickson, Ezra -0.53 32.5 0.58 Spencer, John -0.59 33.9 0.70 Moore, Joe-Max -0.77 33.4 0.18 Henderson, Chris -0.79 33.6 0.10 Maisonneuve, Brian -0.82 31.1 0.32 Howey, Steve -0.97 32.8 0.14 Reyes, Milton -1.04 30.2 0.61 Galvan Rey, Sergio -1.27 31.1 0.65 Stewart, Earnie -1.30 35.3 0.45 Kreis, Jason -1.30 31.6 0.74 Herzog, Andreas -1.37 35.9 0.48 The median is -.25; 64% are below 0. Coaches tend to indicate that older players' intangibles makes up for their lack of measurable production; these numbers indicate that those intangibles are overrated. One additional note: the average known salary of this group is $177532, compared to an MLS average of $94444. While that number is definitely exagerrated by lack of information about renegotiated contracts, etc., the older group is clearly significantly overpaid relative to performance.
Yeah, always going to be a problem. Not to mention possible formation changes between home and away games!
Ever get any further with this stuff (breakdowns by position etc?) I haven't yet, other than the breakdowns for starts, etc. Think I hadn't got around to linking the names I had for teams and scores (and dates, given different hemispheres) with the player output in that file. If you happen to have the player stuff linked to the actual games in a file, I'd be happy to give this a go myself (am familiar with perl, too, btw, useful beast) as it has intrigued me for quite a while. It was above problem that I hadn't had time to solve yet. Look forward to more, AV