State of Team - 2012 Midseason

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Boloni86, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Just listened to the Cap Soccer Show so I figured I'd steal their conversation and see what others think about where we are at this point, the highs and lows so far and predictions for the future. And I'm not talking about stadiums ...

    The biggest surprise? Many would say Santos, but I personally always thought he could be an MLS starter and a double digit goal scorer. As for De Leon I need to see a bigger sample size than that breakout April he had before I really give him a real rating. So my pick is Woolard. He's gone from being the starter I worried the most at the beginning of the season to being one of the only starters now that I don't worry about. Our D was pushed to the brink of falling apart with all the CB injuries and Woolard really went way above and beyond. In my book he's already earned his $69,000 salary or whatever he makes this year.

    Team MVP? No question. We have the defending league MVP and he's in the running again this year.

    Biggest disappointment? I understand Russell seems to be valued as one of the good guys in that locker room, but from a soccer perspective I have yet to see one game from him this year where he outright got the upper hand on his opponent. He has consistently been caught upfield leaving acres of space behind him, has poor recovery speed and brings almost nothing to our possession game. For me he is 100% behind Korb in the depth chart which is not a good place for a right back making 6 figures.

    Biggest result so far? 4-1 against NY.

    Most disappointing game? People talk about Montreal, but I don't see it. Montreal plays for low scoring results so for me a 1-1 tie was always likely. And I don't buy the expansion BS. By game 2 you're no longer an expansion team ... you're just a team like anybody else. Besides we came from behind to get that point, and we outplayed them all game so we should take something positive from that. My pick here is the KC game. There was no other team that dominated us so easily and to give up a late game winner like that at home is embarrassing.

    Predictions? With the current state of things I see us as 3rd best in the East, at best maybe 2nd since NY is always a threat of sudden unexplainable implosions . My real prediction though is that we are likelier to drop to 4th than we are to climbing to 2nd. We're already seeing big signings from Montreal and Houston with more to come probably from NY, Chicago and KC. We don't have cap space to make such big moves. Which brings me to my personnel prediction that Branko will not resign. His replacement in the short term will be a lateral move at best, but it will be someone younger, cheaper and more suited to Olsenball.

    Biggest game ahead? Aug. 12th in KC. The road to the final in the East goes through Kansas City. We have to show we can compete with this team if we want to have any confidence going into a playoff series with them.
     
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  2. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree all the way through. Except for maybe the Bosko prediction. Although I can't really disagree, cause I don't think I can predict it either way. I've thought on it quite a bit, and I have a really hard time figuring it out.
     
  3. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Worst result? In retrospect, probably getting completely pwned by an LA team that turned out later to be pretty poor. KC did that to us, and then did it again their next 7 games in a row.

    And if Branko doesn't resign, why would we have to replace him? :p
     
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  4. solrac

    solrac Member

    Jun 12, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i have been on the fence with the bosko thing as well. I think its going to come down to him taking a pay cut. We can't have 3 dps especially when two of them (dero and bosko) play pretty much in the same place on the field. ---I know that dero plays a bit higher on the field but with both on they naturally playing so close that bosko has been pushed out left. But then he keeps pinching in creating a void out wide.--- I am glad i'm not the one having to make that decision. These are the tough decisions that make a gm.

    I also agree with your projection for our placing. Something to take note of is the number of games we have played compared to the other eastern teams. We have 2-3 more games then everyone else.

    I am very happy with the year so far. I personally want to take credit. I left to san antonio for almost 3 years (3 long damn years-for dcunited and for me) and I just moved back in march. I mean obviously the players get a bit of credit as well... :)
     
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  5. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's hard to be too disappointed in the team at this point.

    While the Kansas City game might have been heart-breaking, in retrospect, the Sporks were on a tear early in the season, but they didn't shred DC United when DC was playing pretty badly. Now, for both clubs, there was some early-season form issues, but SKC didn't seem hampered the following weak. Poor as DC's performance may have looked at the time, I'd say there was probably some solid stuff in there too that kept KC from running riot.

    That LA game, also in retrospect, is probably the biggest disappointment. It was the only time this season that I felt DC was played off the pitch, and it was done by, what has turned out to be, a vulnerable LA team that should have been even more so at that point in their schedule.

    I think if anything is going to prevent DC from having a good rest of the season, I think it will be the streakiness (Chrome says this isn't a word) of DC's attackers. A number of guys have really stepped up and then cooled or started cool and stepped up as others were cooling. It's not quite that cut and dry, but I do think that DC has been fortunate that when Pontius was off his game, DeLeon and Santos stepped up, when those two slowed their production or were injured, Pontius stepped back up and DeRo caught fire, etc. It's great to have so many threats on the team, but the lack of consistency (with the possible exception of DeRo) worries me a bit. If they all cool at the same time, I do not believe DC has the brickwall defense that they'd need to not lose a couple of games straight. I'm hoping that Salihi will continue to gain traction and become a consistent threat.

    Brevity is not my strong-suit. I think I'm in the keep Bosko camp, but only because I think the FO recruits much better when their feet are to the fire (see, last off-season). If the FO spends that money now, when DC are in a strong position, I don't think they do their homework as well and/or their decisions are riskier and DC ends up with a "Castillo" or the like where soccer abilities are not the only factors being given consideration.
     
  6. Barbieri

    Barbieri Member+

    Jul 8, 2004
    Decatur, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering the last few years - I'm just happy were competitive again.
    • The biggest surprise? Andy as RB, seriously.
    • Team MVP? DeRo. Another MLS Legend in Black.
    • Biggest disappointment? Boskovic can't play 90 minutes.
    • Biggest result so far? 3-5 v SJ. The team was on fumes and still tried to play down 3-1. That's when I knew the squad bought Benny locker room.
    • Most disappointing game? 2-3 v HOU. Because it was a ********ing setup, like they did to the Falcons after Katrina down at the Shitbowl. In any other circumstance, we'd have them.
    • Predictions? We'll beat KC
    • Biggest game ahead? Aug. 12th in KC.
     
  7. DC06

    DC06 Member+

    Oct 9, 2006
    Within amile of home
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Just to clarify, are you referring to the 1-0 loss? We actually beat them 3-2 at the match at RFK.
     
  8. Barbieri

    Barbieri Member+

    Jul 8, 2004
    Decatur, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah thanks - got into a rage hole thinking about it...
     
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  9. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm most pleased about the home record. They are playing with everything they have at home, getting results and pleasing the only folks that matter, us.
    To go along with that, the Montreal game was the most disappointing to me.
    Prediction is fourth place, playoff team. I think Houston will surpass them, and ultimately come out of the East.
     
  10. DC06

    DC06 Member+

    Oct 9, 2006
    Within amile of home
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surprise for me was DeLeon followed by Woolard. I expected next to nothing form these two and have been very impressed how they've competed for spots. This side is actually littered with surprises so I could see Santos, Neal and Willis all be choices as well.

    MVP...I'll go outside the box as DeRosario is obvious answer and say Ben Olsen instilling the attitude of valuing work and allowing players to compete and be rewarded. We've had a ton of injuries and managed to work through them with goal scoring coming from all around and a defense (well, except in San Jose) coming together as cohesive unit.

    Disappointing is hard to say honestly. Maybe Branko, but given what we got last two seaosns form him hard to say that.

    Best result is beating Houston to finally, FINALLY, win two matches in a row afte ryears of not being able to.

    Disappointment for a match came Tuesday against Philadelphia. We easily could have made a viable run for silverware and we threw it away at home to a poor side. Only time thus far I've been sickened about a result.

    Prediction is we finish 2nd-3rd in the east, with New York being the match up either way.

    Upcoming match I have circles has to be New York at RBA. They will be right there with us and to beat them again would be huge statement of how the east will go.
     
  11. BBBulldog

    BBBulldog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2004
    Dinamo Zagreb
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    KC game is on 8/11. I only know that since some of us are going hehe
     
  12. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Boskovic is retained (and stays in form), that and Woolard's rise gives the possibility of exploring a 352. I'm not really in favor of "changing the system" halfway through a good start to the season, but I think it's helpful to have more tricks up your sleeve as the season wears on, to always try to get your best players on the field, and I always remember Bruce in the old days shifting people around the field very subtley, but to great impact.

    Jakovic-- Dudar-- Woolard/McD
    ------Kitchen-----Boskovic------
    Najar/Cruz---------------Deleon/Pontius
    ----------------Dero--------------
    ------Salihi-------Pontius/Santos

    I like that as an option when everyone is healthy. This would demand a solid level of play from Woolard and McDonald otherwise it won't work. It also demands that Boskovic get a little stuck in, which he has recently shown some desire to do. And it also demands that Najar and Pontius track back very well, which Najar has recently shown some ambition to do. I'm not sure about Pontius, but I prefer him up top anyway.

    It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it puts our best players on the field at their most effective positions, and I think it's worth considering as another tool in the box for the rest of the season.
     
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  13. BigKris

    BigKris Member

    Jan 17, 2005
    Falls Church, VA
    Props to the thread-starter: great topic.

    I agree w/LA as most disappointing game: they were there to be had, and we lost in part because we gave them too much respect.

    I was going to start a separate thread, but will post here instead given the similarity in topic: With the nice, long break, it's safe to assume we come out the other side nearly 100% healthy. Which is great, but presents one of those problems-y0u-like-t0-have: What's the depth chart, assuming everyone's healthy, knowing what we now know? I'd love to see others' takes on this. Here's my stab at it:

    Forward (2): Santos, Salihi, DDr, Pontius, Wolff
    LM: DeLeon, Pontius, Neal
    AM: DDR, Boskovic
    RM: Cruz, Najar
    DM: Kitchen, Saragosa, King
    LB: Woolard, Korb
    CB (2): Dudar, Jackovic, McDonald, Woolard, White
    RB: Russell, Najar, Korb
    GK: Hamid, Willis.
     
  14. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like you are going from left to right, but I'd reverse this one.
     
  15. NattyBo

    NattyBo Member+

    Apr 30, 2004
    Nunya
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    This is the kinda quality OP the forum needs more of. Commendable analysis even if people will (I'm sure) disagree on the finer points.
     
  16. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    DC has all the tools on paper for a very successful 3-5-2. I would see it as :

    ------------------------------------HAMID
    ----------MCDONALD-----------DUDAR-------------WOOLARD
    ------------------------KITCHEN--------BOSKOVIC
    NAJAR----------------------------------------------------DELEON
    ---------------------------------DEROSARIO
    ---------------------------SALIHI------PONTIUS



    The key for this is having 2 of the 3 CBs with range and mobility. I think Woolard, Russell and McDonald have the ability for the outside positions, and Dudar for the central position. It also becomes that much more important that defenders are sound in possession because there's less cover to make up for stupid turnovers. As far as the D goes I don't really see a role for Jakovic unfortunately. He's not mobile enough for the outside positions and not disciplined enough for the central position. Korb is also an odd man out, but at least he can be a late game sub to go to a 4 man backline when protecting a lead

    Another key is is lots of running and hard work from the wings, from endline to endline. Without this the whole system fails. It's constant running. You have to fly up the wing as soon as you have possession because if not the ball just gets stifled down the middle. You can't worry about defensive duties because Kitchen and Boskovic are always staying at home to help cover. You worry about defense when you lose the ball and then you fly back the whole length of the field and start over. The idea is that you keep possession in the opponents half to reduce the amount of open field running from the wingers.

    If our 3 defenders and 2 wingers can excel in this formation it could really maximize the potential of our central midfield. You have Kitchen and Boskovic combine powers and play close to each other as a unit. Kitchen does all the hard defensive midfield work and Boskovic is always there by his side to distribute. If those two combine powers they can mask each others weaknesses. All of a sudden when Boskovic looks up he could have 5 options ahead of him (again it's key for the wingers to transition into attack quickly) instead of 4 options that he has in our current formation. Having Kitchen and Boskovic behind him would free up De Ro to not have to track deep for the ball keeping him closer to the danger zone. At the same time with 2 strikers ahead of him, he's still deep enough so he doesn't go long stretches without seeing the ball which is what happens when he plays striker.

    Problem is I'm wasting my breath, Ben will never go 3 in the back. It's risky and requires a high level of attacking tactical awareness from players, even the defenders. I watched Napoli and Udinese really dazzle audiences with the 3-5-2 recently, but it takes an obscenely large amount of focus and hard work. There's no room for lazy turnovers. As soon as you turn the ball over in midfield you start bleeding goals.
     
  17. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. You fleshed out most of what I was implying. It takes something special to make this work, and my point was that on paper, with everyone healthy and on form, this could work-- and it could work really well. This would give us another dimension that, hopefully we could use for an advantage deeper into the season when teams have figured each other out a bit. But I am inclined to agree that Ben won't try it. Which is a shame, because I think he should at least be putting the squad through its paces with this formation to see what happens, even if we never use it. My real disappointment is that he won't employ it mostly because of his discomfort in managing it.

    I disagree strongly however about Russell and Jakovic. Russel has been terrible in posession and has no ability to keep up with players, while Dejan is a smarter player overall, and much better and smarter with the ball at his feet. I think Russell in this formation would be a disaster. Woolard might be too for that matter, but he's shown he might not be recently.

    If we lose either Boksovic or Jakovic, a 352 is not worth the trouble.
     
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  18. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    The LA game is the most disappointing result. Olsen didn't start his best squad and LA was tired. We played poorly and were completely manhandled.

    If Dudar was healthy, he would have been my biggest surprise. We haven't had a foreign defender come in and dominate the air, win balls, and distribute like he has -- ever. (Unless you count Nelsen, but his first year was in midfield.) As it is, DeLeon gets my surprise of the year with a 3rd runner up going to Willis.

    Best result NY.
     
  19. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I think the real reason Olsen won't experiment too much with formations is because the guys have yet to master the current one. There is something to be said for continuity. I know in my career I get better and faster at doing things when there is some repetition. The other side of that is when does continuity turn to predictability? I think we are already seeing signs of that. If it wasn't for our unexpected surge in set piece goals we could have lost a couple of our recent home games and the attitude around here would be very different. And there's a counter argument to that as well ... if you're confident in your superior abilities you should be able to prevail even if you're predictable.

    There's a lot of big picture stuff for Ben to dissect. Glad I don't have to make all the calls. Soccer tactics is such an intuitive thing, there's no simple formula that guarantees success. At the end of the day it's more important to have 11 intelligent players on the field who have good vision and can make good decisions. If you can get that you can succeed from many different formations.

    As for Russell I agree he's been poor in any formation. What I meant was that on paper he should be able to play a 3 man back line, but at current form I would go with McDonald/Dudar/Woolard
     
  20. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My MVP so far is Joe Willis - if he had not stepped up big-time when Hamid was away at Olympic Not-Qualifying and subsequently injured - especially early in each game before the defense tightened up - we could have easily went on a slide and got demotivated. He kept us in a few games long enough to get our offense kick-started.

    Biggest disappointment: the Phiily USOC match (I am used to being disappointed at the Plex, but there was no need for that).
    For MLS games, it's the Montreal game

    Biggest surprise: Daniel Woolard (a close second for MVP as well)

    Game I'm curiously looking forward to: Philly in Philly - a) to see how we react to that shit Tuesday night; and 2) my first time to Greater Chester
     
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  21. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love the idea of a 3-5-2 because it permits Bosko and DeRo to be on the field together without DeRo being pushed up to forward and replacing a Salihi, Pontius, or Santos. You need fast wingers capable of getting back to help out on defense. Najar can do that on the right, and I think Neal might be a good option on the left.
     
  22. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The idea of a 3-5-2 would make for an excellent thread ............. of its own :)
     
  23. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    Biggest Surprise:

    Maicon Santos - not a single person on this board (including myself) wanted him here when he was signed. When Salihi and DeRo started out very slowly in the goalscoring department, Santos stepped up and led the team during their most impressive wins of the season

    Nick DeLeon is not a surprise to me. Olsen stated immediately after the draft (and I concurred) that he was the most "MLS ready" player. Loved his game at Louisville and knew he would give United what they have been desperately been missing for years (an outside midfield who actually stays outside).

    Daniel Woolard - no surprise for me either. Always a solid defender, what was missing was his offensive side of the game and his goal and two assists so far are just gravy at this point.


    Team MVP:

    DeRo - next question


    Biggest Disappointment:

    Robbie Russell - at this point, he hasn't been detrimental to the team, but then again he hasn't exactly been a revelation either. I don't yet agree that Chris Korb has passed him on the depth chart (let's remember that Korb had a negative hand in all 3 goals allowed against the Galaxy plus the awful coverage on the goal given up to Montreal at home - too many mistakes that have actually cost the team goals) but it's reaching critical mass. Clearly Russell doesn't have the legs he used to have. His positioning has been poor, but his defending on set pieces has been a big step above what we saw last year, the Year of Giving Up Goals on Headers and Free Kicks


    Biggest Result:

    4-1 win over New York - coming off a poor home draw with Montreal, United bounced back in emphatic fashion on national television no less against their bitter rivals. Winning games in the East is what will matter from now on, starting out 6-2-1 so far in the East has played a huge part of why they are at the top of the conference


    Disappointing Result:

    Los Angeles Galaxy match - I see a lot of people saying how retroactively this was a bad loss. I said it right after the match. This was a lost opportunity to pounce on a tired team, instead it was the Galaxy who looked like an offensive machine. Olsen approached that game terribly and this has been his single biggest mistake of the season (a season of few mistakes I may add). The Galaxy were getting hammered on a regular basis by much less talented teams offensively than United at the time and they went into the Home Depot Center and sat back like pu**ies (for lack of better phrase). The fact that the Galaxy have lost 8 times only confirms what I felt going into that match - a very winnable game that had no chance due to the cautious approach to the match..


    Predictions:

    2nd place in the East - I'm sorry, I'm just not buying Red Bull. Yes, they are stringing results together (not a single win vs a winning team this season) but this won't continue when they start playing the top teams in the league. United's depth has obviously served them well and I expect them to continue to string together results. United will have to pick up their road form however as they are basically getting all their points at home. I think Sporting KC, in spite of their recent dip, is still the most talented team in the East and should prevail by seasons end

    Biggest upcoming match:

    June 24th vs Red Bull - this is the knockout punch that United can serve on Red Bull - anytime you can pwn your best rival, take it and run to the hills.
     
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  24. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Russell has directly cost us goals. Jose Moreno in New England and one of the Will Bruin goals. And there's a couple more I just can't remember. It's always the same MO. Russell gets caught out of position leaving a guy wide open with time to whip in dangerous crosses. And when Russell is so badly out of position it draws out one of our CBs to try to shut down the crosser leaving one less guy in the box to defend the cross. It's not excusable. Russell brings nothing to our attack so he has no excuse to leave his defensive position
     
  25. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought about that, but I prefer to avoid new threads when possible, and tried to tie my thoughts into the idea of "where do we go from here" posed originally.

    Agreed, me too. The predictability is what I was getting at earlier. We've seen teams shut down our wings in some situations (Houston and maybe SJ) and we've seen them shut down the middle (NE, apparently PU at the Plex). One sweet thing about a 352 with the personell we're talking about is that it prevents a team from shutting down one without giving some room to the other. If they want to bog the middle and try to contain Dero and foul Bosko, we can take the attack to the wings, or if they want to stifle the wings we can go toe to toe in the middle, and I like our quality with Kitchen, Bosko, Dero, Salihi, and Pontius at the same time.

    Another thing, it further forces players like Najar and DeLeon to learn even more how to be patient and wait very wide on the field for the right ball to come to them with time and space.

    I don't mind that we don't change formations-- I'm not suggesting that exactly. But I'd like to think Ben sees this opportunity and takes some time to try to coach the squad in the direction of a 352, because I think there's a real advantage to it later on.

    If we carried teh same personnel and scenario into next year, I'd further expect Ben to work on this.

    Exactly.
    I think DeLeon has shown he can do this job well, and probably better than Neal.
     

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