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Discussion in 'St. Louis City SC' started by Z010 Union, May 22, 2007.
So in what way are the Cardinals, Rams and Blues names offensive?
St. Louis and Cardinals - Red - they wear hats - I'm thinking Rome - Pope Conspiracy.
Tony LaRussa - hmmm sounds Italian to me.
So you're saying that people want to call the team AC St. Louis because he will have a women's team, his partner owns a baseball teams and he hosts horse racing?
Regardless of whether that qualifies his MLS franchise as an "athletic club", you don't think AC St. Louis would be an embarrasing name?
I said, I don't like AC - but you were wrong that AC is for Italian teams only - then you went on to dig a bigger whole - just give it up.
Hey if you can show me a team called "AC <city>" that's not from Italy, I will give it up. Until then, AC St. Louis is a ridiculous name for the St. Louis franchise in my opinion. Like I said before, AFC St. Louis or St. Louis AC would even be better, because "AC" in that form, before the city name doesn't mean "Athletic Club".
The Rams and Cardinals are both animals. For some people it is offensive to exploit animals in this way. Additionally, since Cardinals are officials within the Catholic church some people may be offended. Especially with such high profile Cardinals being from St. Louis, e.g. Glennon. Rams also carry some religous connections. The sacrifice of Isaac was replaced by that of a Ram. Also the priests of the Ark carried Rams' horns. This is most notable during the battle of Jericho. Rams are thus offensive to those people who are atheists and/or descended from any group that the Israelites may have defeated.
The term Blues is a musical style that is derived from the spiritual songs sung by Africans enslaved in the South. It's terrible to have a name that summons up images of slavery and despair. On the flipside, it is considered somewhat offensive to title a team something that is exsclusively a part of African-American culture, when that team plays a sport where African-Americans have long been absent or excluded.
Does that answer your question?
AC Sparta Praha (Prague) in the Gambrinus Liga in the Czech Republic. And yes, they have first, reserve, ladies, and youth teams.
Not that I favor "AC St. Louis" either, but if we must parse to guarantee dropping the issue:
Atletico de Madrid, originally founded as Athletic Club de Madrid.
Folks, I'll say it again. I'm not denying that teams are called Athletic. What I was denying was that people would see "AC St. Louis" and not believe "AC" to stand for the same thing as it does in "AC Milan" which is "Associazione Calcio", in which case people would think the team is called Associazione Calcio St. Louis, which to most people would seem ridiculous, and instead understand "AC St. Louis" to mean "Athletic Club St. Louis".
However, anonymous guy has pointed out that there is precedent to support an assumption that the "AC" in "AC St. Louis" could mean "Athletic Club" and not "Associazione Calcio". The precedent being AC Sparta Prague, where "AC" aparently does stand for "Athletic Club", so thank you anonymous guy.
I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but I'd like to see:
St. Louis 1950
A nod to the city's importance in the history of soccer in this country.
I think you might be overestimating the number of people that would think that. I mean earlier today you didn't know that. You had to look it up on Wikipedia.
Agreed - I would bet that only 5% of St. Louisians know what "Calcio" is.
Right. And if for some reason, by their own rights, they named it "Inter St. Louis," by your logic people would suddenly assume, in their great Wikipedic wisdom: "Oh, they must mean F.C. Internazionale St. Louis, or Football Club Internazionale St. Louis SpA....say, what a ridiculous name." And also by your logic, Prague must be in Italy, because they have AC Sparta Prague, and as you've established: "There's a reason they're called AFC Wimbledon and not AC Wimbledon. It's cuz the club's not in Italy."
I'm sorry, I just don't see where you're going -- other than just a wind-up followed by a backpedal.
uh, dude, u can hold off on ur clever insults cuz, as i said in the same post you just quoted, anonymous guy cleanly showed me that I was wrong with evidence.
Anyways, the team being named AC St. Louis doesn't come close to bothering me as much as anti-semitic imagery being involved in the crest. If the team is called AC St. Louis, then so be it.
For those who are unaquainted, the St. Louis symbol is taken from a statue which is displayed in front of the St. Louis Art Museum in Forest Park.
Secondly, I am a Deist and not a Christian - but I fail to see how a cross is an anti-semitic symbol. Is an Aulm of Hinduism anti-semitic as well? Don't be ridiculous. For that matter is the Star of David anti-Muslim? Moreover, the symbol of the St. Louis statue is not a reference to the crusades or anything but the statue itself, which has long been a symbol of the city.
That said, AC St. Louis would be pretty lame. I've been long advocating for the following options:
St. Louis Wanderers
St. Louis United
St. Louis Irons (after the ironclad ships built by James Eads, a famous St. Louisan)
And besides, a cross isn't a religous symbol unless there is a guy nailed to the front of it, which many would assume would be the christ, and therefore might be offensive. Otherwise, it's just an x tilted sideways, an ancient torture device, two pieces of wood that were layed on top of each other, take your pick. Stop trying to create controversy when none exists.
perhaps you're right. it's obviously a cross referring to Spartacus.
would you guys do us all a favor and please stop all of the pointless arguing that contributes nothing
Actually, that's not at all what you were saying. Your exact words were:
So, we provided you with several examples of teams named "AC <city>" that were not from Italy. Which means, to be a man or woman of your word, it's time for you to give it up.
When I played Little League baseball at Heine Meine park, half of the teams in our league were Something-Or-Other AC, for "Athletic Club". Believe me, nobody thought it meant "Associazione Calcio". The "AC" abbreviation is pretty standard in American sports, whether you've ever heard of it or not.
You're vastly overestimating the "Associazione Calcio" thing. I bet more St. Louisans go to Heine Meine on one Saturday afternoon than have ever heard the term "Associazione Calcio". Somebody said maybe 5% of St. Louisans know what calcio is - I'd say more like .05%.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't read far enough to realize this issue was settled.
I'm liking all the green in the proposed jerseys. I also kinda like the perpendicular lines joining at the crest, but I don't know if that would ever get approved. Is that an established kit design in use by some teams, or did someone here come up with it?
Aparently anonymous guy is the only one here who knows how to read. I said show me a team called "AC <city>" where AC stands for Athletic Club. One person said "Athletic Bilbao" and another said "Atletico Madrid". How the hell does that fulfill my request? I said show me a team called "AC <city>"!
On the other hand, anonymous guy read my request, understood it, and gave me an example: AC Sparta Prague, where AC doesn't mean something in Italian; it means Athletic Club.
Also, I was not complaining about "Athletic Club St. Louis", nor "Athletic St. Louis", nor "St. Louis Athletic Club", nor "St. Louis Athletic", nor "St. Louis AC". I was strictly concerned that the similarity between "AC St. Louis" and "AC Milan" would have the average St. Louisan thinking that the St. Louis team has an Italian name.
I have already said several times, which you would have seen if you hadn't jumped in the conversation in the middle of it, that with anonymous guy's supplied evidence, I have dropped it. so why can't everyone else drop it as well?
If you go back to my original post, you will also see that my main point is not that the team shouldn't be called AC St. Louis, but that the crest shouldn't have anti-semitic imagery, which I'm not going to explain here for the fifth time.
After some thought, I like St. Louis Rangers. Besides the fact that I like the name, it can be considered both an American-style and European-style name, e.g. New York Rangers, Texas Rangers and Glasgow Rangers.
Did you actually look at the link I provided? Because surely if you did, you would have realized that it was ATHLETIC-CLUB.net. And, of course, if you would have clicked on it, you would have seen the club's logo, which CLEARLY reads "Athletic Club Bilbao," which is the club's official name.
So, apparently, you're the one who can't read.
So once again, follow through on your promise, and give it up.