Here is the U-T report on the game... "Spirit willing despite weary legs" http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/mon/sports/news_1s28spirit.html *** One thing that I haven't mentioned is the pregame ceremony. The U.S. Navy Special Warfare Parachute team flew in with an American Flag while the anthem was playing! All of the members of the team (there were 6 of them, I think) had no problems landing in the middle of the field... *** The print version of the article included the "Power Stats": Power Stats San Jose 24 Beene 23 Venturini-Hoch 18 Chastain 17 Sanchez 16 Sissi 12 French 12 Barr 07 Cook 89min 07 Bell 72 min 06 Clemens 65 min 03 Cromwell 35 min 03 Alagich 18 min 03 Lindsey 12 min 02 Bryant 78 min 00 Carter 01 min 153 total San Diego 35 Fleeting 18 Fawcett 18 Pickup 16 MacMillan 14 Connors 14 Latham 11 Pagliarulo 10 Wagner 86 min 10 Foudy 09 Krzykowski 06 Sullivan 36 min 05 Ouying 54 min 04 Fair 04 min 170 total
thanx for the reports tsunami. was glad fleeting got a goal and overall played so well in front her own "tartan army".
In speaking with both coaches prior to the Boston-Philly match, neither would have played their internationals even if they had played 0 minutes in DC. Krikorian went a step further and did not start Fair who had been in DC all week with the WNT before being released on Friday (Sundhage started the released Kluegel). As a coach it makes sense to go with the game plan and players that you trained with during the week. The "heroism" is unnecessary at this stage of a 21 game season. From a Boston Globe article today Foudy had played 45 on Saturday. Any sign of fatigue on her part?
From the North County Times, a quote by the C-Ray coach... "We made some critical errors at some critical times," said San Jose coach Ian Sawyers, Foudy's husband. "And the referees also made some critical errors." http://www.nctimes.net/news/2003/20030428/61950.html *** Obviously, Sawyers didn't pay any attention to the first two years of play, where it had already been established that her foot would have had to be completely over the line to make the throw illegal. I wonder if he was referring to all the times his players should have been called for trips and holds and shoves from behind...
It seems to me that there is way too much concern about the wear and tear on these athletes. In San Diego the players played two games in 36 hours. Tough, yet certainly not impossible for highly trained athletes. Give these athletes more credit. They can handle the rigors of professional sports. As for coaches saving their players...is Lorrie Fair going to feel that much better than Shannon MacMillan come next week? I think these athletes will recover nicely with a week's rest. And we will see how important the three points for Sunday's win are to San Diego at the end of the season.
I hadn't really thought about the marked difference in attitude that you could see from the stands until I read this: Last season it was very noticeable that the team would be dejected after getting scored on and going down a goal - mostly in the latter half of the season when it seemed like they were thinking 'here we go again'. But I wasn't even aware of a change in attitude last night. It didn't really seem to faze them. I think this is an extremely good sign. And to win the game after going down the goal has to be a big confidence booster for them. Someone asked if the fatigue was visibly noticeable with the Spirit players. First off, I have to say I was very surprised that Mac continued to pour it on down to the last minute of the game. She must have been extremely pumped from her little 4-goal outing the other day. Fawcett didn't seem to show any ill-effects. I think Wagner was getting pretty gassed at the point that she was taken out. Foudy looked like she was getting a bit fatigued as well. But I thought both played strong first halves. Latham looked gassed about the middle of the second half - her speed seemed to be lacking towards the end of the match. Hey, if the Mighty Ducks and Dallas Stars can play what amounts to a full 2 1/3 games in one night, with their legs barely moving and their arms flailing their hockey sticks around trying to make a coordinated and strategic move on goal, and then play again 2 nights later into another overtime period - our players can play two games in two days. Of course, the NHL didn't anticipate the 4th longest NHL game in history when scheduling the next game 2 days later and US Soccer/WUSA had a season to presumably hammer out their schedules. Oh well - from the few things Mac said in interviews, I don't think the coach could have kept her from playing last night.
Hmmm...is there an explanation of those somewhere? I don't recall what goes into coming up with those numbers. Thanks! OUCH. I can't remember...does the WUSA fine coaches for making anti-officiating remarks? I know the WNBA does, and maybe I'm getting the two confused. I clearly don't remember anything today! :| Congrats on the win, Spirit!
Observations...may seem repetitive. Big difference in play yesterday as compared to the first match. The Spirit controlled the ball a lot smoother than before...had some patterned runs, and anticipated nicely for the most part. Was it a scrappy winning goal? Some say yeah, but nonetheless it was a winning goal..and that is soccer..it doesn't have to be pretty in order to count. I agree that these athletes should be able to handle two games in two days, but I also think that they should be commended for it. It is a lot to ask of the body to expend so much energy at such a high/strenuous level for an extended ammount of time. These women did not let down yesterday. They played their positions and kept at it for as long as they were on the field. Shannon was huffing and puffing, but still made field long runs one after the other whenever the chance arose up to the 90+minute. Joy stayed strong in the back, Jules and Aly kept a steady mid, and Latham (while at times seeming overwhelmed) played aggressively until the last drop. The ref SUCKED....I cannot think of a more appropriate way to put it...he just plain SUCKED. I won't even begin to list the mistakes he made FOR BOTH SIDES. But, the ref's discretion is yet another element of the game. Congrats Spirit, lets see the improvements continue through the upcoming matches..
The explanation of the Power Stats can be found here: http://www.sandiegospirit.com/spirit_power_stats/ The stats for this last game haven't been put up yet, but you can look at the ones from the Boston game to get an idea of how they are applied. As to Ian's remarks, I looked at the "pick-flip" in question several times frame by frame, and only her big toe of one foot is over the line. I think that he just needed to blow off some steam from the frustrations of losing the game before and the team not being able to finish their chances (or get really good chances - if Beene hadn't been on her game Fleeting could have easily had 3 or 4 more goals.) Beene wasn't interfered with on the play, Fleeting was in front of her and jumped up in an attempt to head the ball and I think that the keeper lost sight of the ball and thus could only get one hand on it. *** Before I got to look at the game tape, I asked in the referee forum about the position of the feet: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=46396
Professional athletes may be able to endure these conditions, but watching Brandi go down screaming in absolute agony when she cramped up inside the San Diego box, with 3 or 4 players of both teams rushing to her to straighten out her legs and keep her from flipping out completely, was not a pretty sight. But I'm sure with some rest and some salts, she'll be fine. Just seems sort of crazy to me but I guess it had to be done. I thought the ref was okay. H/she (I don't even remember) missed one incredibly obvious out of bounds call, giving the ball to the Spirit instead of the 'Rays, but besides that it was alright. I've seen a lot worse, let's put it that way.
Cyber Soccer News has an article up on the game, by Marvin Peterson, entitled Spirit flick leads to victory over CyberRays""... http://cybersoccernews.com/wusa/sandiego/030427sds-sjc.shtml
Wondering... I hope you weren't referring to any posters in this thread as "idiots", jscott. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion...name-calling shouldn't be an option from poster to poster. If you weren't, my apologies.
My distain was aimed at the idiots at US Soccer who have shamelessly used these athletes, putting financial considerations ahead of the well-being of the players. I have coached some of these same players at the club and ODP level, and there is no way in the world anyone should be asked to do what those ladies did this weekend. The fact that they were willing is a testament to their fortitude and character. These same players are taking pay cuts so that the players at the bottom of the pay scale don't have to starve. Are you telling me Julie Foudy with a degree from Stanford and her experiance couldn't make twice her WUSA salary in the business world. Jen Mascaro, a Notre Dame grad figures that out. Hell, Julie could go on the lecture circuit tomorrow and make mid six figures. Now we do have posters that are entitled to their opinions, but to suggest that these players should toughen up, or that this kind of rigorous scheduling is somehow "par for the course" in professional soccer is indeed idiotic. Does any European club team ask its non-Euros to fly back thousands of miles from international duty and play without at least several days rest? To question the physical breaking point of these ladies bodies is insulting. Now if I think something posted here is stupid, ridiculous or idiotic, that's MY opinion and I'm entitled to it. And these players in this league are entitled to better than mindless twaddle that questions their toughness.
US Soccer did screw up, but these ladies know their limits... I agree that it isn't fair to expect these ladies to perform at such a high level twice in such a short period of time. I also think that they know their bodies well enough to know how much they can handle. These women weight train, condition, and drill everyday for hours...they are about fit enough to compete in the ironman marathon. Now, if they feel they need to come out because their bodies are starting to give, that is the coach's responsibility to take care of his/her players and listen to their needs. What about collegiate teams that go to tourneys and they have 3-4 games a weekend? That isn't considered idiotic, that is considered ordinary, they are just thought to be able to handle it because they are younger. Some seniors are 23...they aren't that much younger than some of the nat's stars...I am not saying we should expect these ladies to compete multiple times a weekend, I am just saying that I trust their individual judement that they won't overdo it. Like you said, they have college degrees......their knowledge is above average and includes a super sized dose of common sense. If they need to stop, they will...this is their job, they take it seriously and want to do it for a long time....they wouldn't do anything to screw that up.
Mighty Mac #8, I beleive that you and I have a similar admiration for these women and what they do. We are still talking about apples and oranges though. College games with liberal substitution rules NEVER have 6000 air miles in between matches. Sure, I played college soccer games myself on back-to-back days with six hour bus rides in the middle, and crappy meals at fast food joints. The difference; I was expendable. Mia is not. College soccer is about producing results, and if you think those coaches are listening, ha! Better yet, the players aren't going to EVER ask to sit down. You say you trust their judgement. Players will stay on the field with a broken leg. You want common sense? They will run until their legs cramp so bad you have to carry them off. That's why coaches and administrators need to make good decisions, and not set these ladies up for failure, or worse, injury. These ladies on the national team are the best of the best, not no-name small school hacks. (no disrespect to any former no-name small college hacks like myself) They deserve better from our federation. I'm not worried that the players would do anything to screw up their future. Its the people that are supposed to be responsible for the players I worry about. What ticked me off was some poster questioning their toughness. That was what I thought was idiotic. These boards are great place to debate tactics and coaching moves, referee's decisions and league policies. None of us should dare to tell another what they should be tough enough to endure. Why is this a "hot" button for me. I'm a former player and long-time coach, administrator, referee and member of the media whose daughter will someday dream of being that "tough".
jscott23, I don't see anybody questioning their toughness. In fact, I think we are all in agreement in appreciating and applauding their toughness. The statement was made that the challenge the players faced was "tough, but not impossible." They met this challenge and came through with flying colors. Is the USSF stupid for their scheduling? Of course. But I get a bit tired of people worrying about these women as if they don't have the stamina to endure such hardships. THEY DO! Do we worry about a hockey game going into five overtimes, or a the rigors of a 162 game baseball schedule? No, because we respect the fact that these professionals are dedicated athletes who can respond when such a physical challenge arises. A physical challenge arose for the national team members. They met it and conquered it. Just another reason to applaud their efforts as highly trained professional athletes. And, truly, I believe that is what these women truly wish to be considered. How many times have we applauded athletes who play through pain and fatigue. I remember Emmitt Smith playing with a dislocated shoulder, Kirk Gibson hitting a homerun when barely able to walk...and Brandi Chastain screaming in pain yet staying on the field in a quest to bring her team back. I don't recall anyone ever questioning whether Emmitt or Kirk should've have been playing. Can we not speak of Chastain's effort in that same vein instead of focusing attention on whether she should have even been out there? I realize this is a "hot button" but I think one has to be careful to give these athletes their due respect and not treat them as our children. They've earned as much.
Completely understand you both... It is a hot topic for me as well because I am a competitive player on the cusp of NCAA competition, but just recently was informed that due to health issues I can only practice for an hour each training session and Play one half of each game. You think a college coach wants to put up with that? Hell no, and why should they...so yeah, the body's ability is a hot topic for me also, because my body is no longer able to do the 4 games in a weekend, It can barely pull 1 and I haven't even entered college yet. My doctors wanted to put me off soccer all together, but I said no because I know what its like to want to play until I was carried off, or eat the shitty food on the bus ride to the next hell-hole venue...and now I can't even enjoy the painful price of competition. I agree that they won't quit, and I agree that their coaches need to take responsibility....I do think though, that these girls have been injured enough, and spent enough, to know when enough is enough. Not once did they complain about the schedule...or cuss US Soccer for poor leadership...they take it, because they love soccer...and they love being a part of it...and it is the cross country travel, and feeling of weakness in their legs that makes them sleep better at night...because sometimes after your ass has been kicked you feel better than you could ever imagine. And that is love. Just like in any relationship. You see the pros and cons in something or someone and when you stay with it after the worst, you know its love. I can now only dream of being like Mac, or Brandi, or Julie...my body won't allow me to do otherwise, and I pray to god that they will play until they break, because their love for soccer is what makes soccer great and unlike any other sport. Toughness is merely a variation of devotion...and these women are overflowing with it. It makes me believe that even though I may not be able to run a marathon, my devotion will get me to the finish line, maybe not in first place, but nonetheless I will finish the race. Good Luck to your daughter, and I hope she has as much devotion as her father...
jscott, all your points are well taken, and i agree with just about all of them, if not all of them. (see my above posts.) but i don't think anyone in this thread questioned the womens' toughness. on that i think you're mistaken. i didn't go back and read every post (again) but it was more someone said they thought these were professional athletes and "were up to the task". while i, like you, think it's pretty silly they were put in this spot for some short term gain by the federation, the poster wasn't questioning the athletes' "toughness". (i don't think.)