Spector

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by soccermusician, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. soccermusician

    Oct 20, 2004
    Was he injured or sick or anything like that or did he have some beef with BB?

    I ask this because on Johnny B's goal the whole bench got up and went wild and celebrated, even bob. But Specs was like barely clapping like if he didn't care... Not a big deal but at least it was something i thought about and caught my attention a bit...

    Check around the 0:28 mark

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ABuIIrXFxo"]YouTube - USA vs Costa Rica - Jonathan Bornstein's Header - World Cup Qualifying[/ame]
     
  2. Captain10

    Captain10 Member

    Jul 26, 2000
    Marietta, GA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I caught that too and it looked a little odd to me. :)

    I thought Spector had earned the starting role with his play. To me, he's the starter, but it also makes sense to give 'Dolo a run out to keep him sharp.

    It appears that Jonathan has taken exception to that -- but I like the fact that players aren't satisfied with sitting on the bench ... it keeps them hungry.
     
  3. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    I would need more evidence than that. I think his smile is genuine and he's just in a bit of stunned awe.
     
  4. soccermusician

    Oct 20, 2004
    I don't see why bob can't put Specs on LB and Steve on RB, specs plays LB in West ham....
     
  5. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    isn't it obvious? bornstein is his little buddy, always has been, I think it's more than clear after 2 long years of robobob at the helm.

    spector has every right to be pissed after flying all over for the team to be treated like that.
     
  6. CCowden

    CCowden Member

    Jun 30, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not really sure how Spector has 'earned' the starting position. He gets little time with WH and he has looked poor in several of our WCQs - most recently against El Salvador and Honduras. Cherundolo continues to start for club and has tons of experience. In fact, I'd argue is was complete BS that he sat between the Mexico game and our final WCQ match. I think they're kind of even right now. I'm not convinced that position is set.

    If Wednesday's line-up featured a bunch of players we normally don't see I'd think it was just Bob's attempt to let the subs play but we put out a line-up (given who we had available) that would start in nearly every major game we play.

    I chalk his response up to just being Spector. He has an odd way about him - not in a bad way - in which he remains super professional a lot of the time. He often doesn't even get involved in the celebration of a goal if he wasn't part of it or it wasn't a big time strike. I've noticed that about him. Who knows, maybe he was, in fact, irked.

    I'm all for trying Dolo at RB and Specs at LB. LB continues to be a weakness and Cherundolo brings too much to the field to be riding pine.
     
  7. tio_sam

    tio_sam Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    Chicago, Illinois, United States
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    granted the guy next to spector is also calm. but i was surprised at spectors calmness. i dont see how you could just do a golf clap in that situation. but i still think he should possibly start. maybe he was mad cuz bornstein scored and he is direct competitor to him for playing time.
     
  8. strangepup

    strangepup Member

    Mar 17, 2007
    LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Gooch and DeMerit both out I would love to see what Spector looks like at centerback in the November friendly.
     
  9. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    fixed your post.
     
  10. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    Just so you and Soccermusician know, it has NOTHING to do with Bornstein being a "buddy" and EVERYTHING to do with Spector not being a natural left back. He played there for West Ham in an emergency situation when their LBs were down and out, and he didn't play well.
     
  11. Lazzer

    Lazzer Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    And Bornstein is a natural left back? I can't see how since he's awful every single game there.

    At least give Spector a shot at LB in a friendly, he can't be much worse than what we have now.
     
  12. nocturnalscreams

    Aug 3, 2009
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i'm not completely sold on putting spector at the LB position either. i remember seeing specs get owned by aaron lennon when he played that position for west ham and it never really seemed like it was his position for the taking.

    i think its pretty obvious that bradley refuses to try specs at the LB position because negates or weakens his crossing abilities. now by no means am i saying bornstein sends stellar balls into the box.

    however, i think bradley has it right switching up the RB position between specs and dolo. i think its one position for the usmnt that seems to be solid at the moment unlike others such as LM. think about it, if all of a sudden donovan and dempsey were unable to play, who would we employ on that position? rogers? uhhhh beasley? yeaa
     
  13. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bornstein was awful against El Salvador.

    But generally he doesn't deserve anywhere near the crap he gets on this board. I thought he was very good against Costa Rica, T&T, Honduras.

    Earlier this year, he pretty good games Egypt and Honduras in Chicago.

    He's not perfect, and he does lay his stinkers for sure. But he's been good more times than he has been bad. I also don't think anyone is even noticing that is play for the USMNT has been improving too.
     
  14. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    this is only true in your own mind.
     
  15. CCowden

    CCowden Member

    Jun 30, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you.
     
  16. withoutthee88

    withoutthee88 Red Card

    Aug 23, 2008
    Chicago/USA
    Dolo has top class possession.
     
  17. soccermusician

    Oct 20, 2004
    specs has played CB and can do it well! he is pretty versatile, he can play better though, i would really like to see specs on the left and steve on the right
     
  18. soccermusician

    Oct 20, 2004
    yes much agreed, i like specs, but that RB spot belongs to DOLO
     
  19. withoutthee88

    withoutthee88 Red Card

    Aug 23, 2008
    Chicago/USA
    It seems like Spector can play RB, CB, and LB. Yet Bob can't find a way to fit a Premier League defender in the lineup. :confused:
     
  20. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    because Specs watches soccer in the Premier league. It is not like he has been playing those positions much in the Prem.
    For the last month or so, Spector and I have been playing the same amount of Prem Soccer.
     
  21. CCowden

    CCowden Member

    Jun 30, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree but, if this is the case, Spector and his coaches should stop advertising him as a versatile player than can play anywhere on the back line. On another note, I think it speaks volumes of Spector's current situation that the only substantial time he has seen with WH is not at his 'natural' position (RB) but instead at LB.

    It's amazing how two of Spector's crosses in a single month have erased the collective memory of much of our fanbase. Dolo was completely brushed aside for something he has been doing far more consistently than Specs.

    With that said, I still think he would be a better option at LB than Bornstein. Also, Cherundolo crosses just as well - if not better - and gets forward better than Spector. Moving Specs to LB and adding Dolo at RB would mean really nothing in terms of losing crossing ability at RB - as someone else suggested.
     
  22. TNJed

    TNJed New Member

    Feb 24, 2008
    Asheville, NC
    In an 30 minute interview of Spector in May of this year (available as a podcast on ussoccer) the interviewer began by noting Spector's versatility, and then asking him point blank what he thought his best position was, he replied CENTER BACK, "hands down." He said that he has always thought of himself as a CB, and felt that that was where he could be the most effective. He then went on to say that he was feeling "more and more comfortable" at right back, and that he also enjoyed playing right mid. In that portion of the interview, he never even mentioned LB. Only at the end of the interview did he say something like, "but I'll play where ever the coach needs me, even left back." At the time, of course, he was starting most games for West Ham at RB because of injury, and was also taking over RB for the injured Cherundolo, so it's natural to play up this part of his game. But I think it also reflects his true preference, and perceived talent level at the respective positions. I think his versatility has been a two-edged sword. On the one hand it has enabled him to get more playing time, at a higher level, than most any defender gets when they are that young. On the other hand, I think it has prevented him from picking a specific position, and making it his own. And that could be CB or RB, but not LB.
     
  23. TNJed

    TNJed New Member

    Feb 24, 2008
    Asheville, NC
    As a CB, Spector would bring a lot to the table, especially for the US team. He's faster and a much better passer out of the back than any other choice we currently have. On the other hand, he doesn't play with as much physicality as coaches normally want from a CB, and he's not very good in the air at all. I think these two points are what has kept him from being seriously considered for a starting spot at CB for West Ham. But these attributes can be improved. As player, he is actually quiet similar to a young, right footed version of Bocanegra in that they are both CB/FB "tweeners," except that Boca is more physical and better in the air, and that trumps speed and passing ability for the CB position.

    At RB, Spector is a defensively oriented guy who is developing a very nice, right-footed cross From Distance. But he does not have the great speed and skill with the ball to penetrate safely into the attacking third, then recover, on a regular basis.

    Dolo is a totally different player. He is, and always has been, a specialized attacking RB, who is also a decent defender. He has the speed and skill on the ball to get forward, and is also probably the best pure crosser of the ball we have on the team. In fact that crossing ability, above all else, has been earning him his paychecks in Germany over the past 12 years. But there is one caveat, he doesn't have that much range with his crossing, so if you don't allow him the freedom to get into the attacking third, there is really no reason to use him. Dolo is also excellent with possession and calm and smooth with his passing. Go back and watch his interaction with Torres in the 2nd half of the CR match- it was a thing of beauty.

    Still, I would give the edge to Spector defensively. Dolo's slighter frame limits him somewhat defensively, but he can still keep up with you, and harass you, while Spector can actually stop you. So between them, it come down to what your game plan is. If you want your RB to stay at home and play conservative, but still be able to blast the long ball from distance, Spector's the man. But if you want to attack, choose Dolo. This decision is, of course, further complicate by how much defense your right wing is will to play (Dempsey?).

    On the left, Spector is just nowhere near as good. He's shown no sign whatsoever that he can pull off the same great crosses with his off foot, and much to the contrary, and without that, he's virtually useless offensively. He also seems to be more disoriented defensively on the left than on the right. In short, if you're going to play a defensively oriented LB, Boca is a much better choice, and that's probably why Spector hasn't gotten a look. Bornstein on the other hand, though limited defensively and sometimes decision-wise, still presents a threat with his speed that the opposing coach must deal with. So yes, the injury to Gooch may open up a chance for Specs at LB, but ultimately he's not the answer there, and it would be doing him a disservice. He needs to stick with the CB or RB position and make it his own.
     
  24. CCowden

    CCowden Member

    Jun 30, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I generally agree with this and you're completely correct in the differences between Dolo and Spector.

    Given the USA's needs, Dolo is (my) preferred RB. Spector has some games where he shuts players down and others where he is run off the pitch. Specs often has a lot of problems with quick forwards and I find him to be relatively slow in his movement with the ball (he takes forever to cross the ball). It seems he's still not 100% sure where he should be at RB. Dolo is quick and capable of getting up to the O third and getting off crosses - and, if we're playing Dempsey, we need some source of crossing from the right flank because he does not play the true right mid role, at all. This was noticeable versus CR when Holden and Rogers were launching cross after cross into the box and we had several great chances.

    As far as his use at CB, I just don't think Specs meets what we need. Boca, Onyewu, DeMerit, and even Marshall are all much physically larger guys than Spector. Specs, as you pointed out, is not the best in the air and, for example, his mark in the El Salvador game (Utah) out-jumped him to score despite being shorter than Jon. Given the shortages we have with CB at the moment, however, let's play him and see how he does. Perhaps he's better at that position than thought to be.

    Both Dolo and Spector are good but I find myself leaning towards Dolo. His passing was great at RB the other night and I've noticed Spector doesn't display the same ability. Dolo is smaller but I've only seen that really punish him in a handful of games. Given our nontraditional midfield, I think Dolo's speed and crossing make him a better choice at this point. He is still a good enough defender to make an impact on the flank but he also has the speed and control to help out in other aspects.
     
  25. withoutthee88

    withoutthee88 Red Card

    Aug 23, 2008
    Chicago/USA
    So you practice week in and week out with a Premier League team? It's funny how a big bone of contention with Gooch and Milan was even if he wasn't seeing time on the field, at least he was practicing against some of the best players in the world everyday. I guess that doesn't apply to Spector (I realize Milan>West Ham, but you get my gist).

    Fact is that Dolo was BENCHED after the Mexico game for poor play, it had nothing to do with Spector's crosses in the Confed Cup. Personally, I don't have a problem with Dolo as he is a vested veteran of the Bundesliga, but he's in his 30's and very injury prone. Spector is the clear future at that position. I wish for once, Bob would make a choice. The World Cup is only 8 months away.
     

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