Spector playing for Man U Good vs Bad

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by jmanuwiz, Oct 19, 2004.

  1. jmanuwiz

    jmanuwiz New Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    Mr. Spector, I've heard many statements directed at him, but for the USA Nat team I would like to see how does it boil down for them, back up at Man U or starting in MLS, Spector has played some for Man U, but plays often for the reserves or u-19 team. Many would like to see him starting for a MLS side. This is what it boils down to, starting for a MLS side or practicing against a Ruud, Rooney, Saha, Smith, Bellion, or playing a steady first team game against MLS front lines.
  2. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't exactly put Bellion in the same category as those players...but I get what you mean.

    One thing United does that many other teams do not is that they practice their reserves and youth teams with the first team. From that angle he is getting good practice in practice (if you get understand what I was trying to say there).

    But at the same time, the kid has played all of two games for United and none in the last 7 weeks. He only played out of necessity, even though he did play well.
  3. jmanuwiz

    jmanuwiz New Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    i didnt mean to put bellion in their category, but to include all the fowards that are pretty good to good to great, that spector is getting time against. i could have included man u's midfielder also: ronaldo, scholes, giggs, ect, ect. for his practice time, but you are on the track for what im getting at i believe.

    My bottom line is, would Spector be better off in a MLS starting regiment, or an EPL where he plays weekly reserve or U-19 matches, with daily training sessions against Ruud, Rooney, and all the above mentioned players.

    I'm not saying this is good for all future US Nat players but if youll be getting serious looks at a top 4 EPL, Spanish, German, or Italian League team, I'm saying it is worth a discussion, if they are as young as Spector. Whether developing with a Super Power or MLS is better.

    As for Spector he may have played in only a couple of EPL matches, but for what SAF said about him for his performance in friendlies, and the very little i've seen of him, ill take a SAF performance record in developing young talent.
  4. romagol10

    romagol10 Member

    Jul 23, 2003
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He is better off at Manchester no doubt about it. He is practising with some of the best players in the world, he has a great head coach, he is playing matches, and he is in position to start (or play atleast) for one of the biggest clubs on the planet in a few seasons.
  5. Sinter

    Sinter New Member

    Oct 12, 2003
    New York City, U.S.A
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wes brown could be gone as early as the january transfer window, so spector could start seeing more first team time soon.
  6. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001

    also remember he's being coaches by some of the finest youth coaches in the world along with a guy renowned for developing young stars.

    take a look at the history of John O'Brien. He to was brought up through a club system, and because a lack of first team minutes wasn't brought into the National team as soon as some MLS players are (DMB, Convey). But when he was in he was pretty much one of our top 3 players because he was allowed to fully develolp through the Ajax system. This is what were going to get with Jonathon Spector. When he arrives at USA, he'll immediatly be one of our best players. You just need to wait.
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    FC Dallas
    Nothing more needs to be said than this. Well done appooOnU
  8. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    I get what you are saying but why can't he join the USMNT a little sooner than that and just be better than Hejduk, Berhalter, or Vanney?

    Don't you think in hindsight that JOB would have been an upgrade in the midfield long before he ever 'broke through' with Ajax?

    I seem to be in the minority on this subject but I just don't understand how you can overlook guys who go to big clubs and fight for playing time for guys who are less talented and only have seen MLS action.

    I love MLS and I really appreciate the fact we have a domestic league worth watching but it's not the same level.

    Clint Mathis, Tim Howard, Carlos Bocanegra, DMB, Convey, & Brian McBride would be the biggest (on the field) stars in MLS not named Landon Donovan had they not made the move overseas.

    Now, Howard is a cheerleader, Convey is a sub, McBride is a sub, DMB is out of favor and sitting some, Boca is a solid EPL defender after being MLS's best defender for a couple years in a row, and Mathis is...well, I don't know what he is...but it's not very good. Yet each of these guys get called to USMNT camps and it's no big deal.

    Why should Spector be any different? And don't give me stories about their grand pasts in MLS. The fact that most of those guys are no better off at their Euro clubs than Spector (with less competition) tells me that a grand past in MLS doesn't mean a damn thing compared to doing it in Europe. Not saying Spector has done it in Europe yet...just that he is as close to doing so as many of those guys.
  9. PScott8502

    PScott8502 Member

    Oct 12, 2002
    50th state
    Who has Spector beaten out to gain a spot at ManUTD. When he got his run of games, most of the backline was injured or suspended.

    Spector has done nothing to warrant a call-up passed signing a contract with ManUtd. But for some people that seems to be enough. :rolleyes:
  10. XYZ1234

    XYZ1234 New Member

    Oct 26, 2002
    Well JOB did get his first cap at 20 and that was while he was still on the Ajax youth squad. Plus things were so much different back then pre-Arena in 1998. MLS was only 2 years old, there really wasn't a youth movement yet. I don't even think there was anyone on the 98 cup team under 23 or 24. I wouldn't say that JOB's situation had anything to do with him playing in Europe. Since then he has been injured for a lot of the last 6 years.

    The MLS does help the under 18s but I still think an 18, 19, 20 year old can succeed in europe and get onto the national team if they are good enough. Spector's situation isn't really a reflection on being in Europe but being at a big club in Europe. He'd have a good shot in a mid to low table div 1 team or in the 2nd division.
  11. BelhavenKeeper

    BelhavenKeeper New Member

    Nov 15, 2002
    Vienna, Austria
    He started 2 games for Manchester United and performed very well. I think any of the Teams in the Championship would love to have him in their squad.
  12. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or he might have gotten his achilles popped earlier in his career and lost out on a lot of prime development time at a critical age.

    All of the examples you give, except for Spector himself, have all played and played well for the Nats. Regardless of their starting status at their club, they are a much more known quantity at the national level. In addition they all have many more club games under their belt, both in MLS and at their respective Euro clubs. I know you said don't say that, but track record is very meanigful when picking your team.

    Spector has played well in a couple real games for Man U. He's got tons of talent. With so much upside and potential he's likely to be a star for the nats in the future. But thusfar he's proven nothing. Those couple games amount to all of his top-level experience. There's no reason to put a guy with such a limited resume into a meaningful nats game so long as Boca can cover left.

    I do say we ought to consider capping him against Jamaica since that game means little.
  13. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    I don't think capping Spector early and risking injury is worth what appears to be an excellent development of a young player. I have no issues with Spector sitting on the bench right now. I think we want to protect him more than anything else. I think thats the effect of Arena said earlier to actually. the USMNT team isn't going anywhere and don't need Spector to qualify. whats the rush?
  14. Waiting in ATL

    Waiting in ATL New Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Atlanta, GA USA
    Yeah, you're right. There does not need to be a rush on getting Spector into the squad, but when an opportunity like the Jamaica game presents itself, I think it would be wise to bring him in to camp. He probably doesn't play, but now is a good time to measure his game against Hejduk, Pope, Gibbs, and the other MLS defenders. I think BA has to be considering it. Onyewu will probably be asked for the same reasons. The question of can he play at this level needs to be determined BEFORE it has to be determined. We found out against Panama that BA thinks he should be able to play at this level, now he'll try to find out if he can.
  15. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    if Spector has looked good against Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Everton, and Bolton why wouldn't he look against CONCACAF?

    I think Bruce knows exactly how good Spector is right now. Its not like the kid hasn't been tested. Wait till the season is over for Spector and then bring him in over the summer. assuming he gets some kind of playing time.
  16. CHSsoccer08

    CHSsoccer08 Member

    Apr 12, 2002
    Washington DC
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dont think we need to worry about him getting playing time yet. We can revisit the issue when he is up around 22, if he still isnt playing then I could see a reason for him to come back to MLS. Although I havent seen a lot of him other than a few MANUre games and his youth team action, I think he could find regular first team action in england right now. Its just a matter of him playing for a team that has rio and wes brown at centre back.
  17. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Truer words have never been spoken. Don't get me wrong. I am by no means saying that Spector should come in and start in Jamaica. He shouldn't. I'm not even saying that he should show up for Jamaica. However, at some point with many players, we have to find out whether guys can play at this level before they end up getting forcibly thrown to the wolves in a TRULY meaningful game because of injuries or some other nonsense. And appoo, I disagree with one major statement of yours. BA does NOT know how good Spector is. He can't. There is not a large enough sample against professional adult competition for him to know that. Certainly he sees potential, but potential is far from getting results. 2 or 3 games just isn't enough. Bruce could certainly have a better idea of where this guy fits in the grand scheme of things if he actually saw Spector and the national team guys on the same field. It would be different if the guy had 40 1st team games under his belt, but he doesn't yet.
  18. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    Who did Convey beat out for a spot at LB for DC United? Wait a second, he didn't play LB for United, much less beat anyone out for the spot. This fact didn't prevent him from being capped a few times at LB for the USMNT.

    Did you so vehemently oppose Convey getting LB caps the way that you do Spector?
  19. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    ...also, he didn't look so bad when he was fouled by a couple of Gunners during the Charity Shield only to get back up off the pitch, bitch at the ref for not calling the foul, and run down the Gunner from behind and take the ball right off his feet. I had seen good stuff from him during the CW tour but that moment against Arsenal told me this kid is special.

    Probably couldn't do that against Panama though. ;)
  20. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    a good point. But I think its a fair assumption to make when you consider the level of opponent that Spector played against. I probably jumped the gun when I said that Arena knows exactly how good Spector is....but I think he's watched Spector just like we did. I'm sure he has a pretty good idea if Spector can compete or not at USA International level. Especially since he's gone up against better players than guys like Eddie Johnson and Eddie Gaven have in their entire lives. And done well. Its not just anybody who run with Ze Roberto, pick his pocket, turn around, and deftly deliever a nice ball to an attacking player.

    but your point is another reason I want to wait on Spec. let him get some experience. He's not going anywhere.

    Can I also ask this. Where does Spector's wishes come into play here? Everything he does does NOT have to be for the benefit of the USMNT. this is Manchester United and Theatre of Dreams. How awesome would it be to get the chance to be to play there on the 1st team? Quit being so selfish. He shoudl follow his own dreams.
  21. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Enough already. The kid isn't even 19 yet. He's played how many games with the 1st team at Man U? Relax, if he continues to develop, and I think he will, we'll see him in a friendly next year or '06 at the latest. Hey, now that Frankie Simek got a game under his belt at QPR, how long before we see a Frankie for the Nats thread? Arena knows who all the young players are and will begin bringing them in when the time is right, and this ain't the right time.
  22. jmanuwiz

    jmanuwiz New Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    I agree and disagree with this reply. Where I agree is he is young, dont rush him with Man U, let him practice against players that would beat an MLS Allstar team. However, call him into a US soccer camp with bruce arena. let spector see how things work, let arena see his talent, call him up in the hex if things are looking good, but only add him to the roster if things are settled, decide if he makes the world cup roster in friendlies and previous call ups.

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