man, we have so many guys that are Dmids already. I mean, we are decent at 2 positions - goalie and Dmids. No reason to cause even more of a glut in the midfield, especially for someone who has the potential to be one of our best defenders. It's obvious that our largest problems on defense seem to be the central backs.
I really don't think that a player should be forced to play his club team out of position for the good of the national team. He should play the position he is best at with his club. Ultimately, I don't know that he ever becomes a d-mid, just saying that I would really like to see it as I think he has some great recovery speed, is a good tackler when trailing a play, and if he was in the middle, could really do some defensive damage.
So you'll have to excuse me for not following Derby County much this season. But what little I did see I thought Lewis was playing on the left wing. So let me restate: Spector is one of four fullbacks playing in the Top 4 leagues in the world. (But still one of three that is actually in the USMNT pool at the moment)
I hope you know I'm just being a dink about Eddie - As to where Spector plays, I wouldn't worry too much as long as he plays. As to our CD problems - I'm not sure that's our biggest problem. Scoring once in a while would help a bit too. Our CD's are not superstars and the starting pair of Gooch and Boca are too similar in style and strengths for my liking - we could really use a more technical guy there, which is one reason to consider Spector - but a good LB would help us a lot too - and might be where Spector is most useful in qualies.
That's OK. The EPL database was the easiest to go through as they give heights in English units and I was too lazy to do any conversions from metric. However, this list also proves my point about height. Canavaro (all 5'8" was the footballer of the year last season).
What are we supposed to learn from this? Canavaro is so technically, athletically and intellectually gifted that he can overcome his small stature and still be a great defender?? Spector can still be a good defender if he had Canavaro's stature? Height/size/strength is irrelevant for a player?
My point was that height is pretty much irrelevant for virtually every position on the field (except for goalkeeper where height has advantages, afterall how many under six foot goalkeepers are out there). My original post was just to note Spector's real height 6'1" and note that a lot of the top EPL central defenders are about the same size. This was in response to someone who said Spector was not big enough.
So I was correct in guessing that you think Spector would be just as good (or mediocre) had he been of Canavaro's stature!
No! Height is hugely important at every level of the sport... Physique is probably the least appreciated defining player attribute, by fans. Clubs honestly just completely overlook players that don't fit their respective positional molds. Even in positions that usually boast fairly short players (relatively speaking), like fullback roles, a lack of height is often a big obstacle to even getting a contract at a club. How many 5'6" central defenders do you see? Central midfielders at 5'8"? There are certainly a number, but for every Paul Scholes, there are 5 jermain jenases getting the nod.
This argument is a very American idea, and it's ridiculous and worn out. You must be joking if you think taking Gooch over Cannavaro is a great idea simply because one is enormous and the other is rather small in stature. Skill, skill, skill has always made players rise to the top more than any other sport. I could go through all the slight, underweight, undersized superstars that play or have played the sport, but really, I don't want to. You should know their names, and that their physical "limitations" if you must phrase it that way, had nothing to do with their dominance.
Care to tell me once where I mentioned Cannavaro or Gooch? Care to tell me once where I hinted that a big player is always preferred over a smaller one? Care to tell me once where I said that size > skill? You haven't heard of the majority of physically-lacking players, because they don't make it through the youth systems to the professional stage. Again, skill is sublimely important. It's all about TIC, but that whole concept doesn't do justice to the importance of size in the modern sport. For every Lionel Messi -who suffered from dwarfism as a child- there are 10 other kids that got passed over because they were too small. I'd also like to argue that a Messi isn't physically limited, despite his lack of size. He has pace, and combined with a smaller frame, and good understanding for using his upper body strength to hold the ball, is actually benefited in his turning and peeling.
Firstly, no, you never mentioned either player; I did as an example, to make a point. Secondly, do you actually read your own posts or do you just vomit out your ideas free form and then promptly forget them? Your entire original post is to the effect that big players have some sort of huge advantage over smaller ones. I suggest you read carefully what your original point was before coming after me for posting against it. Right, except for our entire MNT. And the next generation coming up through residency. And players from across the world like Michael Owen, Messi, Maradona, Landon Donovan, DMB, Rossi, Tevez, Pele, Adu, how much more time do you have to read about skill over size? You're right, it is sublimely important. Now go back to your original post and read where it says that...oh, right, it doesn't. I said it. No, those kids ended up getting passed over because ultimately they didn't have the skills or pace or both to compete at higher levels. They didn't understand leverage to hold off their bigger, stronger opponents, or possibly you are right and they were ignored by coaches. But I truly don't buy that. One or two years of being passed over at youth level does not automatically result in zero potential interest in later years, especially if the SKILL is there.
you don't seem capable of digesting my original post, so why should I be redirected to it? here it is: "No! Height is hugely important at every level of the sport... Physique is probably the least appreciated defining player attribute, by fans. Clubs honestly just completely overlook players that don't fit their respective positional molds. Even in positions that usually boast fairly short players (relatively speaking), like fullback roles, a lack of height is often a big obstacle to even getting a contract at a club. How many 5'6" central defenders do you see? Central midfielders at 5'8"? There are certainly a number, but for every Paul Scholes, there are 5 jermain jenases getting the nod." ------------ Like I said, I never demeaned the requisition of skill. I spoke of the underrated quality of physique, and to be fair, never defined that physique either. That could mean speed, strength, build, height, muscle mass, endurrance, etc. Maybe it's an assemblage of those qualities? In your effort to 'best' my argument, you seem to have completely overlooked that facet, and have tried to shove words under my name. Skill is very important, and if you knew anything about youth development and the transition of young players from youth teams to professional level, you'd surely know about TIC. My point is simply that clubs are employing physique as a general scope for players just as strongly as they might use any dimensions of TIC to filter through the talent. If you honestly want to dismiss a physical presence, you're kidding yourself. I further love the examples that you gave. Freddy Adu is struggling largely because of his physical limitations. He's technically sublime, but for the top-level of the sport, you need more. Giuseppe Rossi was dumped from Manchester United solely because of his lack of speed and size. He's be on that roster but for that. If he would've had a bit more of either, his role would've been gifted with far more opportunity. The 'entire' USMNT boasts a load of physically capable players!
Gotta admit, with the "height" sentence setting up "physique" I also thought you were talking size not speed, quickness, balance etc. Obviously, technical skill without gifts of pace, quickness, vertical leap etc. are not as valuable as they could be: (see Kirovski, Jovan and Beerholder, Gregg for two good US examples.) That's kinda obvious. But just as obviously you could nearly populate Manchester with guys who can run the doors off Rossi who would never get a sniff at Man U. because the lack technical skills. It's the meat AND the motion.
You have just explained why short players can be successful. A low center of gravity allows them to change direction more quickly than bigger players. Messi isn't an anomally. Tevez, Saviola, Wright-Phillips, and Aaron Lennon to name just four off the top of my head while maybe not quite as good have the same kind of skills and quickness that Messi does.
As for Spector he is plenty big enough to play Central Defense. He easily has the pace for the job as well. What remains unclear is whether he has the tenacity for CD. To be a good CD you need to be willing to mix it up with opposition's strikers. You need to go after aerial balls with full conviction. I like Spector. Heck he is one of my favorite Yanks right now. But he still needs to work on his edginess. If he can do that I believe he could be a fine CD.
I disagree a little bit. I see Spector who, when he decides to come in, does so with full conviction. The problem is that sometimes he's indecisive. And when he's being indecisive, I don't think he's shying away from contact so much as he is genuinely uncertain as to what to do. I think his ugliest moments as a defender have come from this. I support of this claim I'd say that I've seen him go for headers just as heedlessly as the next guy (he almost put one of his own teammates out of a game when playing for Charlton) and I've seen him stand rooted to the spot when a corner came into the box. The issue didn't appear to be fear of contact, but the number of options to be sorted out before deciding on a course of action. I would also note that I thought his best game last year came against his former teammates at Man U, whom he knows and therefore (I assume) was able to act more from practice and intuition than from decisions made on the spot. I hope that experience will reduce the frequency of this kind of thing, because like you I like Spector and think he brings some good things to the table as a defender for the US team.
Oh, you're so correct Right foot. I must have read too much into your using the words "height", "short", "lack of height","5'6"", and "5'8"". You certainly did not define the type of physique you were talking about. Oh, woe is me to have misread your intentions so completely, especially since they've now completely changed form. I readily admit how wrong I was, and how utterly right you must be. How glad I am you've stuck so stubbornly to your originally argument instead of confusingly flip flopped while cleverly deflecting the blame for such an idiotic position back upon me. Well done indeed sir.
Worn out and tired argument tactic: attack the poster NOT the post. Not to mention putting words in your opponents mouth. 0-2 to start the match When was the last time the MNT beat a Euro opponent? What is our track record against "physical" opposition? I rest my case. The names you mention are all exceptions to the general rule which encourages and promotes bigger athletes. How many more times do you need to read this before you get the idea? And why don't they have the pace to compete at higher levels? Because, ALL OTHER PARAMETERS BEING EQUAL, a 6' footer will have more pace than a 5'8" guy. That's just the law of physics and the natural world at work. He will also have one less lesson (that of understanding "leverage") to integrate than the smaller guy. We could go on infinitely with more examples as to why some athletes are more advantaged naturally than others. Not forgetting, there WILL always be exceptions, as we've said.
bungadiri, I think you and I are saying the same thing using different words. I don't think he is scared. But he isn't willing to commit to the play.