Why are a relatively high number of players, who come under the catergory of 'special', attracted to Barca? Cruyff Maradona Schuster Simonsen Romario Stoichkov Ronaldo Rivaldo Riqueleme Saviola Laudrup Figo Di Stefano (before he was pressganged by Real) ...Now Robinho expresses his desire to grace the Nou camp sometime in the future. Barca appears to be the peoples club.
Hardly. What Barcelona are is phenomenally wealthy. And nobody 'press ganged' di Stefano. But, then again, since you made no mention of Kocsis, Czibor, or Kubala, I gather your knowledge of that time period in Spanish soccer isn't particularly good. And why single out Barcelona? You could easily make the same case for Real Madrid, or AC Milan, or Inter, or Juventus. Fact is, every wealthy club in Europe has its own little galaxy of superstars they've managed to attract throughout the years, and Barcelona's is no more special than anyone else's.
Re: Re: Special relativity Please make a case for the clubs you've mentioned - provide a list of the top players for each club that are equal to or greater than the Barca list. Initially it was just an observation...I feel the magnetic attraction isn't just a money thang if it was Inter's list of 'special' players would be rather exstensive, don't you think?
Re: Re: Re: Special relativity First off, including Riquelme and Saviola, and even Figo and Rivaldo, in a list of 'special' players is a little premature and disingenuous in this type of discussioin. Also remember that before the 1990s, player movement was not as common and players tended to stay in their own countries because leagues had limits on the number of foreigners. Spanish league was attractive to South Americans, many of whom were eligible for Spanish citizenship, thus allowing them to get around the foreign player cap. You bring up Serie A - you of course realize that until the 1980's, (a) the league was comprised mostly of Italian players since Italy had higher quality players than Spain, (b) did not have the financial clout of Barça or Real until the media tycoons started taking over clubs - that is, they were wealthy, but not überwealthy (c) in Spain there are two dominant clubs while Italy has the Seven Sisters so talent would inevitably be spread around the league. Considering the above, Barça's roster of stars is not that special.
I posted these on the "Dream Team" thread. Milan, Madrid and Juventus are easily comparable with Barcelona, Inter perhaps less so, but as skipshady said, talent in Italy (and likewise in England) was spread as the power is spread over a number of teams.
My criteria for 'special' was: 1. players who have won WPY or EPY 2. players genuinely good enough to have won one of the above awards.(Schuster and Laudrup come into that catergory) 3. players with geniune potential to win one of the awards. (Saviola, Riqqy and Robinho come into this catergory) 4. In general I've choosen non-natives and players from and after the Cruyff era...(Stefano gets a mention becos he was a bit 'special'but he can be omitted). 5. I've also into consideration the first big club of each player. Based on the above only Milan come close,so to my mind my argument still stands. I wager that all the players on my list spoke of joining the 'best club'in the world when signing for Barca. It's significant that Ronaldo spoke of joining the 'best team' in the world when looking to join Real. Pele' would've played for Barca if he had deigned to play in Europe! I suppose point 2 & 3 are subjective but I tried to be objective otherwise the list would be a mile long.
Are you crazy? Even based on your retrofitted criteria, Real and Juve have good enough players to compare with Barça. But that's just my opinion, just like yours.
Gunther Nezter...now there's a player I'd forgotten about, oh he of the golden following tresses Oh do gimme a break, take away Stefano from Real and Platini from Juve and they ain't saying Jaque! I had to control how to select player otherwise my list would be as long as yours and include overlapping players and those existed before I WAS BORN and whom I've never seen play.
I only consider the following players as "special".... Cruyff Maradona Pele Ronaldo Puskas Di Stefano Beckenbauer Platini Van Basten.... Of the big money club.... 4 played for Barcelona 3 for Real Madrid 1 for AC 1 for Inter 1 for Bayern Munich 1 for Juventus I somewhat agreed with ROM2, depending how you define "special".
If there are two things I would call "special" about Barcelona, they would be the club's inability to hold onto star players and it's failure to win (relatively) much of consequence. Your exercise merely points out both of these: -They've had so many stars, yet lag well behind Real Madrid domestically and Milan, Ajax, L'Pool, and a few others, in Europe. -The reason why they've had so many famous players is because players leave, either because of bad treatment or because there are bigger clubs elsewhere. With all the vacancies, of course they're going to have to buy more players than a club that isn't constantly restocking. Real Madrid have the last 3 WPoY winners. Of WPoY winners who are still active, Real Madrid have 5 of 6. Barca spend more money, but who do they have?
Real Di Stefano-EFY koppa-EFY Figo-WPY/EFY Milan Gullit-EFY Van Basten-WPY Weah-WPY/EPY Papin-EFY Juve Platini-EFY Zidane-WPY Inter Matthaus-WPY/EFY Barca Cruyff-P70'S/EFY Maradona-P80's Simonsen-EFY Stoichkov-EFY Romario-WPY Ronaldo-WPY Rivaldo-WPY Hmmmmmmm...beats me I'm from L.A.!
I fixed your list. Again, wonderful job moving the goalposts. Barca has 7 'special' players by your criteria narrowly edging out Real (not including Puskas, probably the greatest European player of his time, plus Raul, who should win one of the awards before his career is over, and Roberto Carlos, the best left back of his generation) and Milan (also omitting great players like Maldini, Baresi and Donadoni) who each has 6. Impressive? Sure. Heads and shoulders above the field? No.
A skip baby, Chill out! To avoid the subjectivity I thought it best to stick to the players who actually won an award but maintained the non-natives dictum. If you want to question the merits of each players award that's fine.
I'll chill out. But I should point out that you're either missing the point of my post, choosing to ignore it or conceding that I'm right. Cool.
Re: Re: Special relativity heh. I never knew someone as witty as Skip could ever live in Queens! Me being half-greek, I feel a bond with Astoria. Good Gyros, and even better social clubs to watch Panathinaikos.
Re: Re: Special relativity Yeah just cool it, As I said previously I think it's reasonable to choose the first superclub a 'special' player moves to since it may represent their prefered choice - don't you? Also natives may have a whole host of reaons for going to a superclub of their country - wot would interest me is where would ie.Rossi,Baggio or Saurez go if they'd moved abroad at their peak. I haven't moved anything apart from the subjective element since the debate was getting looped. By sticking to the award winners negates looping. Now if you want to question the 'special' status of the award winners feel free but it'll get looped and I would submit that you can't win any of the above awards unless you're something 'special'...bet yer gonna tell me something different. ...beware of people kissing your tail.
No. Barca is a gateway to more successful clubs. If it was Ronaldo's top choice, why did he leave after 9 months despite playing very well? Barcelona simply cannot hold onto its stars. Most top clubs can. Di Stefano was not strong-armed by Madrid. He was originally supposed to be in white for one year, azulgrana for the next, etc. Barca decided they didn't want him at all and you surely know what happened from there. Kubala is a much more suspect case. According to Morbo, he thought he was signing for Madrid when he put his name on the Barca contract! Perhaps his name should be under Madrid?