Spain VS Norway [R]

Discussion in 'Spain' started by minuscapita, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. aloisius

    aloisius Member

    Jul 5, 2003
    Croatia
    Aranzabal would be my choice as well but Juanfran, Bravo and Romero could also do a decent job.
     
  2. barça

    barça New Member

    May 31, 2003
    In a plane
    Re: Definite Home Field Advantage At Ullevål Stadion

    You guess? :rolleyes:

    Norway gave a different meaning to catenaccio yesterday. Giving up any ideas of how to play football.

    I place some pf the blame of only a 2-1 win on th eplayers that missed some incredible shots, Torres, Raul, Baraja etc. and the largest part of the blame on Saez.

    The team was getting frustrated against 11 men defending and continued trying coming through the middle. The attack was coming mostly from Exteberria crossing the ball into a sea of white and with the inefficeint Baraja and Albelda through the middle.

    The tactic needed to change, Valeron should have come in for Marchena and either Xavi or Xabi Alosnso needs to be in the team as an aternative to Baraja. Exteberria needed to stop crossing and take it in, like Joaquin and Reyes did. But Saez introduced changes in personnel but not in tactics.

    A shameful display by Norway and a shameful display by Saez.

    IMO, there is no way Norway goes to Portugal, Spain will win again in Norway.
     
  3. nordby1

    nordby1 Member

    Sep 4, 2001
    SAN DIEGO
    Club:
    Lillestrom SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Norway Wins Second Match in Spain Today

    What deal???? :confused:

    Espen Johnsen and the Norwegian "catenaccio" defense won't "let" your men have anything on Wednesday.

    If Spain could only score 2 goals against Johnsen when they had 30 shots, I think the best you can hope for is 0-0 draw in frigid Oslo on Wednesday. It will be interesting to see how many scoring opportunities Spain will be able to create if the temperature at Ullevål Stadion ends up being close to freezing as expected this time of the year.

    In Madrid today the Norwegian women easily defeated Spain 2-0 and moved to the top of Group 2 in Euro2005 qualifying. :cool: The WUSA's all-time leading scorer Dagny Mellgren scored the only goal Norway needed in the 29th minute and Ingrid Camilla Fosse Sæthre, who came in as a sub for Dagny, added a second goal for Norway in the 84th minute.
     
  4. nordby1

    nordby1 Member

    Sep 4, 2001
    SAN DIEGO
    Club:
    Lillestrom SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Home Field Advantage At "Fortress Ullevål"

    Maybe if I was able to watch the match "live" like I'm assuming you did I might feel differently, but it isn't that easy to tell how many quality scoring opportunities Spain actually had just by following matchtracker updates. :rolleyes:
    All Norway needs is a 1-0 victory on Wednesday at "Fortress Ullevål" to advance. Don't forget that this is the same stadium where Norway eliminated England in WC '94 qualifying and dominated Brazil's "A" team in a '97 pre-WC friendly. As I mentioned before the cold weather in Oslo will also be a big advantage for Norway.

    Spain has to be feeling extremely frustrated after giving up a huge road goal and then only managing a 2-1 victory. There will be a tremendous amount of pressure on Spain so if Norway can prevent them from scoring in the first half, I really like their chances to come away with the victory at home. I also look for Tore André "Flonaldo" to have a big match against Spain just like he did against Brazil at Ullevål in '97 and in Norway's huge come-from-behind victory over Brazil in WC '98.
     
  5. minuscapita

    minuscapita Member

    May 10, 2002
    Fremont, ca
    Club:
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Re: Home Field Advantage At "Fortress Ullevål"

    You might be right! But Spain always surprises me, they do great things when am not expecting them too.
    I think that this game could go 2 different ways:-

    1-the Norwegians can frustrate the hell out off us causing us to stumble and miss all the opportunities.

    2-and this is what I think it will happen, Spain will win something like 3 or 4-0.
     
  6. Pichi

    Pichi Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 17, 1999
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    Real Betis
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Re: Re: Definite Home Field Advantage At Ullevål Stadion

    The same happened in Euro 2000 when Norway beat Spain 1-0, scoring on their only venture into Spains box that whole game. Spain can't go to Norway expecting to play for a 0-0 tie or they will be on the links during Euro 04, watching the games from the clubhouse. Joaquin showed that even though he is injured and his play as of late with Betis has been everything but stellar still can change the outcome of a game with his presence.

    If I was Saez I would start Joaquin on Wednesday get the early goal(s) and then play slow deliberate football and force the Norwegians to open their lines looking for the 2 goals to equalize the aggregate score.

    Saludos Aupa Espanha y viva er beti manque lopera!!

    Pichi
     
  7. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just surprised that Valeron didn't start. Regardless of what other players are available, it seems to me that Spain is less of a team without him in the lineup. Although it sounds like Reyes made an impact in the early going.

    It seems that Saez is making some controversial decisions with the lineup, I'm just wondering if it will pay off for him.

    I think with a team like Norway, who will play defensively (you think you saw defense in Mestalla, wait until Wednesday) a player like Valeron, who can break down a defense playing catenaccio. With Norway getting the away goal, I have no doubt that they will be playing not to let in a goal on Wednesday. It will be even tougher for Spain to crack their defense. Valeron needs to be in the lineup if Spain really wants to break down Norway and score the first goal (which will force Norway to open up and play soccer).

    Spain has the advantage, but if Norway scores first on Wednesday, they'll throw 11 players into the box and play bunker defense for however long it takes.
     
  8. Juanele

    Juanele Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Colorado, US
    You shouldn't have been surprised by Valeron not starting. Saez seems to think that he and Raul are not compatible and has not started Valeron for a while now. And this despite the fact that Spain don't look like they have any purpose until he gets into the game.

    For the next game Valeron and Joaquin should start IMO. Also Puyol should be moved to the center of defense. However, I'm sure Saez will stick to what he had in the first game. I have absolutely no confidence in Saez. Even if we make the Euro championships I doubt will make it out of the first round.
     
  9. barça

    barça New Member

    May 31, 2003
    In a plane
    Re: Home Field Advantage At "Fortress Ullevål"

    I didn't know that you had not seen the game.

    I base my opinion on the fact that Norway has to score at least one goal, that means that they will defend with only 10 players, giving Spain some more space to play :rolleyes:

    Juanele;

    I fully agree with you, Saez does not seem to capable of changing tactics, just players in the same positions.
     
  10. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What credentials does Saez bring to the table? Besides his stint with some of the youth teams, his greatest success begin Spain's U-17 or World Youth Cup championship in 1999.

    Besides the youth programs, where else has Saez coached? Shouldn't they bring on someone who has experience with star professional players, not just youth prospects...

    Could one of Spain's weaknesses on the World stage be their choice of managers? Looking back at the most recent list, it's hard not to imagine that their difficulties have had more to do with coaching than talent. The talent is surely there. I wouldn't put Camacho, Clemente or Saez among the top managers in Spain currently. Is manager of la seleccion really a job that nobody wants?

    Who would you like to see managing Spain?
     
  11. Juanele

    Juanele Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Colorado, US
    I wouldn't mind a foreigner coaching Spain. It seems to be working for England. I think it would have to be somebody who is familiar with Spain and its players. Also they can't have the bias that a lot of the recent coaches have. And an important quality would have to be a resistance to pressure by the media.

    Who would that be? I don't know.
     
  12. Sinko

    Sinko New Member

    Dec 28, 1999
    xalapa ver mx
    Club:
    Harrisburg City Isl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VDB
     
  13. barça

    barça New Member

    May 31, 2003
    In a plane
    Oh God help us.

    There are two good young coaches in Spain more than capable of taking the NT to glory.

    Gregorio Manzano being number 1. He has performed miracles with Rayo, Mallorca and now Atletico.

    The other is Victor Fernandez.
     
  14. Qdog

    Qdog Member

    May 8, 2002
    Andalusia
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Manzano maybe, but I´m not that fond of VF. His teams always seem to fade, reflecting conditioning problems. I have no problem with VDB, he´s better then he gets credit for. I also like Juande Ramos.
     
  15. minuscapita

    minuscapita Member

    May 10, 2002
    Fremont, ca
    Club:
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think money is a factor! as coaches get paid way better in clubs!!
     
  16. minuscapita

    minuscapita Member

    May 10, 2002
    Fremont, ca
    Club:
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Alright, they have arrived in Norway and it is -1 degrees.
    The referee will be Collina.

    Anybody live in the Bay area that has cable and will be watching the game would allow me to join him??
    Please offer me and I will accept. :)

    I live in Redwood City.
     
  17. barça

    barça New Member

    May 31, 2003
    In a plane
    I don't want to turn this into who should be the coach thread, but its so tempting.

    VDB; If we are not happy with the fact that Saez does not change tactics, or makes good subs, then VDB is not the right person. Vinnie, would drive any Madrid fan crazy, when he had a team loosing and he would make 0 changes. It tells me that he is not happy with the bench or he is happy with what he had on the field. He is just not a good game day coach. Go to the Mallorca game, go to the Osasuna game, go to the Juventus game. Even the championship games he won, he wasn't that good. Remember he chose Cesar over Casillas, even after Cesar let that Barcelona tie the game at the Camp nou. Casillas saves his butt after Cesar was injured.

    Manzano; Has been sucessfull everywhere has has coached, to the point of amazement. Including Talavera de la Reina. He kept a Rayo from descending when everyone had them down. He won the Kings Cup with a team that overachieved all season long and on game day, he was amazing. 4-0 against Madrid do not come every day.

    Fernandez, what you say is fair, but Betis is about as cheap an organization as there is. Thus no bench to speak of, but he has shown to be a creative guy with his mid set on attacking fast and wide. Imagine a Betis with a good striker, they would be awsome.

    Minuscapita also has a good point, what England did was pay lots of money for a big name coach. Spain should do the same, pay one this guys quite a bit of money and see them win.
     
  18. Pichi

    Pichi Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 17, 1999
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    Real Betis
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Barca are you sleep deprived? You saw how bad VF was during the Barca-Betis match when he brought on Benjamin late in the game trying to hold onto a 1-1 result and got burned big time!

    Victor Fernandez or Victor Fraudez as he is called on the list, has coached Betis now for 50 league games and still has no idea on how to tactically align the team. Except for the run of the first 4 games last season when they trashed Depor 2-4 and Barca 3-0 and tied Real Sociedad 3-3, his supposed magic has worn thin with the Betis supporters and unless they beat Depor this Sunday he will be fired and will be looking for a job.

    He is overrated and if that is what the RFEF wants then the selection will be sucking some more pond water for several years and will have to scrap it's way into WC06 through the playoff route since they will not win their group with VF.

    I would love to see Don Lorenzo Serra Ferrer get the nod if he doesn't get the Betis job when VF gets the axe!

    Saludos y viva er beti manque lopera!

    Pichi
     
  19. Pichi

    Pichi Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 17, 1999
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    Real Betis
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    While you're at it you might as well criticize Lopera because he's the one to blame. WE Beticos have been imagining how awesome Betis would be with a good striker for the past 5 years and imagine that the same will be true 5 years from now! The stadium is still have built and the web page is that of a second division B team! Cheap is not the word!!

    Lopera vete ya y viva er beti manque lopera!

    Pichi
     
  20. Mario

    Mario New Member

    Mar 11, 2000
    San Salvador, El Sal
    although I recognize Gaston Casas is not a predator in the box he did a decent job not so long ago, who else played there while in Segunda? another argentine I think?
     
  21. barça

    barça New Member

    May 31, 2003
    In a plane
    Agreed. I was blaming him when I said Betis. The guy is joke to football, in a country where most owners/presidents are a joke. And the media kills Pitterman, I guarantee you that most Beticos would love to have Pitterman rather than Lopera.

    But that is the reason why I don't kill VF, in the game against Barcelona, his card was played by a goofy second yellow, that left him with 10 man. Add the injuries to Valera and Joaquin. I don't think he is overrated, I think the team has been overrated. Big deal to get Tote, I think he is overrated.

    I can not criticize coaches of Atletico Madrid or Real Betis Balompie.

    Anyway, I want Manzano for the NT or even for Barcelona. He is a star.
     
  22. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. minuscapita

    minuscapita Member

    May 10, 2002
    Fremont, ca
    Club:
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain

    This guy doesn’t care much for Spain either!
    Although he is right on some points most of them sound like hes got issues with everything that is Spanish!!
    From our referees to the way we play soccer, even how we raise our kids!!!

    This guy needs to get a job at a different sector or magazine (internet website), I don’t think anybody told this idiot that this is a sporting website!
    He should maybe work with Dr. Phil.

    My 2 cents
     
  24. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I think Mr. Ball enjoys the idiosyncracies of Spain, and can appreciate them as an ex-pat living near San Sebastian (I envy him..).

    He is right that Spanish referees do not enjoy a very good reputation in the rest of Europe, and sometimes for good reason. One of Spain's most experienced international referees, Lopez Nieto, was sent home from the World Cup after giving out 16(?) yellow cards in a German match (don't remember if it was against the Saudi's or one of their other first round opponents)

    He's a cultural critic, as much as he is a fan of Spanish soccer. I enjoy his take, maybe because I noticed similar things when I was living in Spain, but I don't know if his football analysis always matches his cultural takes, and vice versa. We had a good discussion about his misunderstanding about the relationship between Valencia and Barcelona in one of his previous articles. Whether or not he completely understands the depth of Spanish futbol culture (he probably knows more than most of us), he's an enjoyable read. And don't think his criticisms come from anywhere but an affectionate poking fun at his adopted country.
     
  25. minuscapita

    minuscapita Member

    May 10, 2002
    Fremont, ca
    Club:
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Funny how 2 people can get to completely different vibes from reading the same thing!
    I still think he had some valid point but most of it came from jealousy that eats his English heart knowing that Spanish football is far superior to his dear English one.

    I hear a blabbering idiot with some valid yet known facts, like the Spanish referee.
    But at least this referee didn’t cheat like some others did in the world cup, Remember what happened to Spain Vs Korea?

    And what’s up with giving us lessons on how to raise our kids!??? If he is so concerned about the welfare of kids he should have mentioned how his dear country bombed Iraqi civilians for 12 years, causing the deaths of over one million kids!!! Give me a break!!
    Peace
     

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