Something(s) missing

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by ursula, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    It looks like most folks here are pretty happy with what's happened so far this offseason. I am too as far as it goes. But if all we are looking to now are getting a few rookies and Stoichkov then something's missing and Hudson hasn't done the job he needed to do.

    Last year we had a very good defense and a dirt-bag offense. The forwards were particularly awful, Etcheverry wasn't much of an attacking mid at all, Williams killed the offensive like he was working for the other team, Convey was lost on the wing, and until Olsen came back, we had nothing on the right.

    The end of the year saw a glimmer of light when Convey was moved to the center and Olsen returned on the right. Yea! When the offseason started Ray said that there were going to be huge changes to further improve the team. So what have we seen to help the main problem, the offense?

    Stewart replaces Moreno. This is a big improvement, the best thing that's happened so far.
    Kovalenko essentially for Mapp. This is both good and bad. Good because Dema in the middle is a positive for the offense and will better allow Ray to go to a 352. Bad because it looks like Convey is now back to left wing again with no target to cross to. Honestly I'd rather have Convey in the middle as opposed to Dema. Really honestly I'd rather have Bobby and Dema together in the middle with Etch on the bench (we resigned Etch for what purpose?) but all we have to put at left wing then is Alegria. Oi. (To be fair, replacing Williams with Nelsen is a big subtle plus.)

    Actually I'm not upset about these moves so far. But the job is only half done. We have two holes on offense: the other forward spot and a decent left winger who can either sub for Convey or become the starter when it becomes obvious to everyone that Convey in the middle is much better than Etch.

    So now is the time where we will see if Hudson's job really is in jeopardy for next year. If we go by with what Kaspar and Hudson are saying, we'll draft Escandarian #1 and probably get Stoichkov to argue with Etch on who takes the free kicks. Window dressing. Yeah we have more draft picks, but can we really expect them to be big players this year? No. Maybe if we get Clark that would help this year, but the defense is doing fine; it's the offense that needs serious help still.

    That's it. That's not enough. Some things are missing.

    It's hard to imagine that Hudson is going to rely on a forward corp that consists of Stewart and four kids. We must have someone who can give us 10 goals, minimum and it's not fair or realistic to put that responsibility on either Q1 or Escandarian. It's also not fair or realistic to confine Convey to left wing when he's shown he's much better in the middle.

    I hope that Hudson has something up his sleeve that he's not telling us about. Some trade or signing that Goff doesn't know about.
     
  2. To-Hell-U-Ride

    To-Hell-U-Ride New Member

    Oct 25, 2001
    Who sayes Olsen can't be moved to left midfield were he did a great job for the USMNT against El Salvador, with Dema on the right like at Chicago, with Bobby and Marco in the middle, Nelson supporting those two. That's what I had in mind????
     
  3. DCU

    DCU Member+

    Feb 15, 1999
    Bay Area, CA
    I don't know Skip. I think Ray's about done.

    1st, I think he has a 'sormun' goggles on w.r.t. Convey. He just doesn't seem him as a player in the middle.

    2nd, I don't think Ray can pull in another 10 goal scorer. I wish he could, but I think Stoitch is all we're going to get.

    While the moves have been pretty good, they haven't been perfect. Because Ray doesn't believe in "Convey in the middle" he had the team re-sign Etch. In re-signing Etch, the team didn't leave cap room for a quality striker. Stewart's really a midfielder who'll be playing up top.

    If they hadn't signed Etch, United might now have an Eric Quill (solid left mid) and a devastating striker on their roster in his place. But...c'est la...So because Etch is around, this team will go through the season at least one or two pieces short.

    Of course, Hudsper may yet fill those holes...but it'd take some magic. (i.e. it looks impossible)
     
  4. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    That might happen, but if you talk to Fire fans, they say putting Dema at right wing is even worse than Convey at left wing.
     
  5. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    Skip, I expect Convey, Dema, Ben, and Reyes to be all over the field and not restricted to their specific position. last eyar Ray tried that and then gave up when the players we had would not cover for each other. I expect him to try this again.

    And on the forwards, I think you do expect Tino to get 10 goals. He needs to stay healthy, come back after missing the first 2 games with the U20 team and deliver. This is his 3rd year. 10 goals in 28 games should be expected.
     
  6. Sweeper

    Sweeper New Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    I tend to disagree, I think its more like Stewart is a striker who has been playing mid for the nats, but really is a forward......Just my opinion.

    Waddup Lanky.
     
  7. Detective40oz

    Detective40oz Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I'd have to agree with you that we still haven't addressed the forward situation, I don't see Earnie as a forward more of a mid. We haven't addressed the forward position with a pure striker. Which is what DC United exactly needs, someone who consistently puts the ball in the net. Also we still have Etch running the show..and our d-mid position with nelsen wasn't sparkling in 2001 when he played there, will he step up now? that is yet to be seen. Hopefully we have a few more moves under works..hopefully tyson nunez realized there weren't really many offers out there for him other than ours and he comes back to the table. Sure we might take Alecko, but he hasn't proven anything on an MLS level, has any first year striker other than twellman who played professionally in Germany ever lit up MLS in their first year?? Ricardo Clark would be a great pick up but I'm afraid he will be gone by #5.
     
  8. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    If Ray's about done then I hope he likes his last year of coaching.

    However I can see that Ray isn't done. Look, we need a couple of vets IMO- left wing and forward. Four teams at least are looking to move up in the draft and/or get more picks. Chicago wants more picks. The metros want more picks. KC wants to move up. So does Colorado. C-bus and SJ may well want more picks and/or move up to get the player they want. LA may well want to move up. Who has the picks? We do more than anyone else.

    I am not at all adverse to trading picks if we can get an Eric Quill or even a Chris Brown- just to pick on KC here (and we can cite other players on other teams too.)

    We have four very high draft picks. We can dictate how this draft will go for other teams. What I find interesting is that now that the combine is over all of that hype about who good and deep this draft is has changed to things like, "Well the top five or six will help this year and after that, you have projects." What that means to me is that this draft is much like many other drafts in various sports leagues: There are a handful of coveted guys at the top- not nearly enough to satisfy every team- and if we play our cards right we can use that desire by other teams to get what we truly need.

    Ray needs to come through this draft big-time if he is to have a contending team next year. To do that he needs to do more than decide on Clark or Escandarian at #1 and maybe get Thomas say at #5 and fill out the developmental roster with the rest of the picks. He must deal.
     
  9. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Yo.
     
  10. grumpydcu

    grumpydcu Member

    Jan 1, 2002
    MD
    With Stewart now on the roster, Ivanov and Stoitchkov almost locks to be signed, and McKinley still on the roster (that will likely change) I count 18 roster spots filled. The amount of available cap is not for us mere mortals to know but may not be much. Therefore, dealing draft picks for experienced players would mean cutting current rostered players and finding cap space (assuming the new players would be paid more than the cut players). Also, if we don't have draft picks how are the six developmental slots to be filled? I like the idea of dealing but I don't think that it is feasible at this time.
     
  11. Marco10

    Marco10 Member+

    Sep 9, 2002
    I've been wondering about the backup left wing situation too. I always assumed a decent veteran would be picked up, but now with the roster so tight, I'm not sure that's possible. Chino and Curtis could play there, but that's not the greatest fit for either.

    I wonder if Eskandarian can play there?
     
  12. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    The roster:

    1. Rimando
    2. back up GK- should be on developmental roster

    3. Reyes
    4. Ivanov
    5. Petke
    6. Prideaux
    7. Nelsen
    8. Namoff

    9. Alegria
    10. Convey
    11. Olsen
    12. Etcheverry
    13. Kovalenko

    14. Stewart
    15. Quaranta
    16. Curtis
    17. Quintinilla


    So I count 17, supposing Mckinley's gone. So options for dealing roster players?

    - Prideaux looks vulnerable, as has been mentioned by various people including me. It just seems like that although Hudson is satisified with him, he's not that satisfied. If not Prideaux than I can see Petke being moved- and he has a higher salary.

    - This is a reach, courtesy of DRN- Nelsen might be trade bait. I can see this as possible if two things happen provided that Ivanov is indeed Hudson's choice at central defense: 1) Since Nelsen is an SI if Hudson has another foreign player he likes, then... and 2) If United takes a chance on Clark to start.

    - Namoff- I really doubt that he makes the final roster.

    - Cuirtis and Quintinilla and Alegria are like Namoff end of the roster guys. If the cap makes it possible, then these guys are all expendible.

    So these are the guys who might be traded and/or waived (depending on who we are talking about) to make room for a roster guy. Along with trading some of the draft picks, these guys can be packaged to to be very enticing to other teams.


    As for needing to fill all six developmental slots- I think that this is an unrealistic goal. Sure, folks here are saying that this draft is deep. But does anyone think that with our forth round or later picks that we'll be picking guys much better than say Micah Cooks or Sergio Salas or Dennis Ludwig? In other words- practice fodder? Yeah, maybe one of those late round picks will develop in three or four years- that's a really low chance though and if another team wants them and we can package a low pick with other better pick/players then let's do it.
     
  13. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    I agree with Skip on this one -- unless we pick up a couple immediate-impact studs in the draft or make another deal we're not dramatically better than last year.

    And given the history of turnarounds for the MLS team with lots of cap space/allocations/draft picks we need to be a lot better or Hudspar should be gone.

    I'm still cautiously optimistic though that we'll sign another forward and that the draft picks will be significantly useful right away (especially Eskandarian and/or a reserve defender).

    I don't think this lineup:

    Rimando
    Reyes Nelsen Petke
    Ivanov
    Dema Etch Bobby Olsen
    Stewart Quaranta

    is going to get us past the first round of the playoffs.

    Something like this would be fairly useful though...

    --------Rimando
    ---Reyes Nelsen Petke
    Stewart Ivanov Dema Ben
    -------Convey
    Nunez/Esk Quaranta

    Convey and Olsen need to have great years.
    Etch needs to be put out to pasture.
    We need another forward badly.
    Quaranta needs to step up.

    A lot of gaps, but still some possibility they can be filled.

    Stoichkov? Harkes? Humbug.
     
  14. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hristo Santino
    Dema
    Olsen Etch Stewart
    Nelsen
    Prideux Bulgarian Petke
    Rimando

    or:

    Stewart Santino
    Dema
    Convey Etch Olsen
    Nelsen
    Prideaux Bulgarian Petke
    Rimando

    Either way, that's an INTENSE starting lineup. Lot of hot-heads out there. I predict you guys lead the league in fouls commited and fouls suffrered.
     
  15. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    Sorry but every lineup posted in any of these threads is FAR better than our lineup last year. We came in last place again. We sucked. We may not have a team to compete with LA yet but we are progressing and first round of the playoffs is far better than we have done the last 3 years.
     
  16. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't fall on the "we need to deal" side of this. I say pick the players and work with the few tweaks that will come (Harkes/Hristo). We do have tradeable assets though. Either Petke or Prideaux can be moved to free the roster spot. However United does not need to make a moove at this point. The deal has to bring some benefit to United.
     
  17. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    Did you read what Convey said the other week about how he likes to play in the middle for DCU because he gets the ball more? I know how Hudson wants a free flowing game but we haven't seen it, especially in regards to Convey- who stays on the wing if he starts there. I may be totally wrong here, but I don't see Hudson's free flowing game amounting to anything different.

    As for Q1 getting 10 goals, in other words equalling the season high of Josh Wolff- 10 goals is a lot. It's easy to underestimate how difficult that really is. Q1 is in no way a target forward and we have no one who is unless we start playing Curtis a lot. I see Q1 playing the same game that Stewart plays (with less defense). Escandarian has a better chance at 10 goals IMO as he does things that are unique to our team. Still that's a lot to ask of a rookie and if my job were depending on it, I'd keep my resume updated.
     
  18. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    I guess I have to disagree. Sure Bobby likes the middle but he needs to play where he is put and work from there. With the players around him this year, there should be no problem with him flowing to the middle when he wants to and when the opportunity is there. And on Tino, again, it is time for him to step up. Curtis scored 5 goals last year, why shouldn't I expect 10 from Tino?? Josh has yet to play 2000 minutes in a season and Tino needs to stay healthy and produce this year.
     
  19. dsheon

    dsheon New Member

    Jun 12, 2000
    One Big Upgrade from Last Year

    In a word: Attitude.

    It was there toward the end of the season but there were gaps along the way.

    So much change this year will make everyone - even Etch - come to camp with an open mind a clean slate. We can speculate about the lineup but one of the reasons we're having differences on this board is because of the versatility and options (aside from left wing perhaps). That's going to drive competition.

    My one hope for this pre-season is that Etch honestly has to compete and win his starting spot.

    By doing this, this team could be psychologically light years ahead of last years team.
     
  20. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I understand some think Etch is terrible and some even seem to hate him

    That said, there is no way in hell he's going to be benched or he will have to compete for his job

    First, he led the entire team in points (that includes forwards)

    Second, he was just signed for the max salary

    Third, Hudson has stated he loves Etch

    Those three facts make the chances of Etch being benched or replaced (other than point accumulation and injury) equal to zero divided by infinity
     
  21. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair but any coach worth his weight will bench a player. I benched my son. Ray can and will bench Etch if the need arises. Etch may not like that, not that he sholud but no one, aside from Rimando (for lack of a quality backup) is untouchable in his starting spot on this team.
     
  22. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having Olsen for the entire year is going to make a big difference. You saw what a difference he made a the end of last year, playing at 80%.

    Stewart, should he play reasonably well, is a vast improvement over Jaime of last year who couldn't finish to save his life. Dema is also and improvement.

    If Convey and Tino are healthy for most of the year they aslo are an improvement over who their replacements from last year were.

    May not quite be a team to compete with for the cup just yet, but vastly improved over what was trotted out for the majority of last year.
     
  23. jmsdoc

    jmsdoc Member

    Jun 25, 2000
    The Valley
    I'll go on record as predicting that if we keep our #1 pick, and Ray sees fit to get him some PT(or if Tino gets hurt again), that we will have our 10+ goal scorer. Esky's a much different animal than our last UVA wonderkind-the curly haired angelic one.

    John
     
  24. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    I'm not so sure

    Last season was nothing to be proud of. He did not have a good season regardless of how few points others scored

    Once the season start it doesn't matter how much he makes. They are paying the 20-some players on the team the same amount no matter who starts. They'll play whomever Hudson thinks will help them win. Benching Etch proves they wasted money, but playing him instead of someone better is a lot worse.

    Hudson has said he loves a lot of players, including Pope and Moreno.

    Etch is too slow. He's been a hinderance to our offense. If he plays like he has the last three years, it will clear that we can't content with Etch running the offense.

    Hudson will see that and probably bench him.
     
  25. jpablo

    jpablo New Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    My 2 cents

    I think we have the potential of a very good team. Currently, I think we're too thin at the back. We need a backup goalkeeper, central defender, and defensive midfielder. This is how I see the lineup given the latest trades:

    Rimando

    Reyes Prideaux Ivanov Petke

    Nelsen

    Kovalenko Olsen

    Etcheverry/Convey

    Stewart Quaranta/Quintanilla

    Stoitchkov could be a first choice sub if there are any injuries in the attack.
     

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