Solyndra, 3 Fails At Once

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Steamer, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. Steamer

    Steamer New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/obama-admin-reworked-solyndra-1182334.html

    "Administration officials defended the loan restructuring, saying that without an infusion of cash earlier this year, solar panel maker Solyndra Inc. would likely have faced immediate bankruptcy, putting more than 1,000 people out of work.

    Even with the federal help, Solyndra filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection earlier this month and laid off its 1,100 employees."


    Stimulus money...wasted.
    Gov't in the jobs business....loser.
    Shady political moves....more of the same.
     
  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Word in the Bay Area is that the company was seriously mismanaged. Plus, they couldnt compete with the Chinese.
     
  3. Ties5o11

    Ties5o11 Member

    Aug 11, 2011
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It shows just how big a failure government backed "green jobs" programs are.

    Studies showed that Spain lost 2.2 free market jobs for every government pushed "green" job, and similar studies have shown the same effects in California. For some reason, the Obama admin (and the entire network of MSNBC) missed the memo on this and propped up numerous now failed green jobs programs. How about tax incentives for "clean" technologies, but seriously stop wasting our money on these green jobs failures. When the technology is there, the free market will take care of it.

    This is worse than just a failure of green jobs though. The Administration knew this company was going down and still pumped a ton of money into the deal, and the CEO was close to Obama and the Administration. If the parties were reversed (and Solyndra was a oil company), the left would be screaming bloody murder. If you are against government corruption, you would be against increasing the size of government and thus the surface area for corruption.
     
  4. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Chances this thread gets any traction: 0%

    Had it been a Bush era scandal: 110%
     
  5. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll play...

    The difference between this sad state of affairs and a "Bush Era" scandal a Bush era program would have had an ever greater loss of tax payer dollars for attempting to preserve a highly profitable (for a few) dead or dying technology instead of something that will hopefully lead to energy independence, not energy dependence.
     
  6. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
  7. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what's worse - the fact that my man Joe gave this company so much PR time (see the Daily Show Thursday evening), or that FOX News is trying to turn this tiny, barely-even-embarrassing news story into a Valerie Plame incident or Whitewater. I have to wonder if, were we at 6% unemployment, whether or not Solyndra would have been the blip to the 2011 summer. Probably not - the man is African-American, after all. There's so many ways to scare them rich whait folk down South.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Be fair. It was not FOX who chose to highlight this particular company as a shining example of president Obama's administration's plan for the federal government to invest in new technology. It was the president himself who came to Fremont and chose Solyndra to be the face of his job-creating policy.

    You might as well blame MSNBC for publicizing Joe the Plumber as the face of the concerned successful small business owner.
     
  9. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the events unfolding from the Yellowcake incident (Valerie Plame scandal and the Iraq War thingy) or Hurricane Katrina (heckuva job, Brownie) had only cost the country $500 million dollars, would CNN go over it day after day after day? No. This is Obama's first 'scandal' as President, so the media are pouncing on it with all they've got.
     
  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I wouldn't call it a scandal, but at a time when the president is touring the country promoting his idea of having the Federal Government invest in new technology I think it is relevant to talk about this particular situation that his own people chose to make an example.

    I think one lesson is that new technology is very risky business, and if the feds want to get into it they should be very careful in how they approach it.

    Do you buy into the idea of using investment in potentially lucrative but very risky new technology as a neokeynessian type tool in order to stimulate the economy? And if so, do you see a problem in the way it was approached in this particular case? Do you think it is possible that political considerations, or even cronyism, got in the way of acting responsibly? Is that a danger that should be looked into more, if we are going to insist in trying this approach?

    As far as the other events you mentioned, we did discuss them extensively at the time that they happened, and I fail to see the relevance of bringing them up here, unless it is as a poor attempt to distract from the topic at hand, which I think is a legitimate topic for discussion on its own merits.
     
  11. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gosh, given that the headline post of this called it a 'shady political dealing,' why would I compare it to recent political scandals?:confused: Well, then we'll play exclusively on your turf. Since the stimulus invested $30 billion over two years in 'green tech,' and the auto bailout cost $40 billion (I include it because of the emphasis on higher-mileage autos and pollution standards the government enforced), we get a total of $70 billion the administration spent in neo-keynesian (or crony capitalist, or socialist, or targeted, depending on your ideological stripe) investments in 2009 and 2010. Others may add to that total if I am missing something.

    Solyndra will cost the taxpayers $500 million.

    500/70,000 = 0.7% absolute failure rate for the US government investing in green tech. Now, while the Big Three autos and other companies may not be killing right now, none of them are going belly up as of September 2011, as far as I know. Now, let's compare to other major US government investments:

    Iraq/Afghan War: $1 trillion estimated
    Fraud in said wars: $60 billion

    60/1000 = 6% absolute failure rate (not to mention the 6,000 American and 500,000 Iraqi/Afghani lives lost).


    Can we have the Obama administration do another $70 billion investment program and have the same amount of corruption? I can think of a couple thousand US soldiers and a couple hundred thousand Arabs and Pashtuns would agree with me.

    My point is this: we're never going to have a perfect government program. Nor should we. Sure, Obama toured Solyndra. I'll bet we can drudge up thirty of those types of tours. But 1/30 as a failure rate is pretty damn good. I'd like to see the multiplier effect of those investments, but given that we know the stimulus had a $1.69 multiplier effect, and that tax cuts are not as good a multiplier as $1.69, something tells me those investments paid off.
     
  12. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It sure wouldn't seem so bad if the administration hadn't made an example of this particular company. Whoops.
     
  13. Dyvel

    Dyvel Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    The dog end of a day gone by
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    It's not as juicy as a lesbian themed bondage club, trolling for gay sex in a public bathroom, going hiking on the "Appalachian Trail" or having a diaper fetish but it is embarrassing.
     
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  14. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously we need another war and more tax cuts.
     
  15. Steamer

    Steamer New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    Someone is deflecting....

    This may be the first scandal, but there's more coming. Of course, here on Big Soccer, Bush is still president and the Republicans are the only ones screwing up.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never understood the ability of conservatives to say things freely and openly and then turn around and say conservatives never say things. You tell us that Obama is a screw-up, then say in BigSoccer only Republicans screw up. In a very literal sense, you are the only one here denying your own right to speech. One way or another, you are a liar. Is it that:

    1) Obama is a screw-up and you have the freedom to speak freely,
    OR
    2) You are lying about your right to speak and thus Obama is not a screw-up.

    Which do we choose? It's on a bigger level with FOX. They have the largest cable-news market share and have for years, but they say there is no conservative voice. When are they lying?
     
  17. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with the bottom, but not the top. What is really frustrating with you and many of the conservatives on BS is that the only way you seem to accept Dems criticism of the Obama decisions is if there is a comment that says "they were stupid and not worthy to be in office."

    There is plenty of decent around here, just not as much as versus Bush (who rightly got much of his criticism).

    Agreed. And point 2 is important.

    A few important numbers. Further, if this recession had not hit, there would be no need for any stimulus and the money going to Solyndra would not be as notable.

    If you believe a lot of the rhetoric from Superdave and AB. Most of the rest of us are more openly critical of Obama when he goes wrong. The problem is that he is on the heels of somebody who is considered one of the worst presidents ever, and the opposing party. His wrongs are not nearly as great as Bush's (he has not yet lied to get the US into a war).

    Further, green energy is risky, as is most new technology, but in the long term, the risk should be taken. And when we spend $1T on war, the waste was 0.0005% of just that figure.

    But, if asf is correct, it was a bad move to push though the loan without a better review.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. Steamer

    Steamer New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    I've read this three times and have no idea what you are saying. What I said, however, is that judging by the threads and posts on this forum, one would think that Bush is still president and only Republicans are screwing up. I'm not sure how you morphed that into the 'freedom to speak freely," or how I might be lying about my right to speak freely.
    You either need comprehension lessons or glasses.
     
  20. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's how I get where I am:

    1) You, Steamer, say that Barack Obama is a screwup repeatedly on BigSoccer. Other conservative posters do the same.

    2) You, Steamer, say that only Republicans get accused of being screwups on BigSoccer.

    One of those two statements must literally be false. FOX News has:

    1) The largest market share of cable-news television (plurality audience).

    2) Often said that there is no conservative voice.

    Again, one of those statements must be false.

    Both here on BS and in the 'real world,' conservatives simultaneously have this dichotomy of a) being the largest group and b) claiming extensive suppression of the conservative viewpoint.

    By definition, either conservatives are being systematically denied their right to free speech, thus proving yours (and FOX's) first statements to be false, or conservatives do have a voice, proving your second statements to be false.

    Why do you crave victimization both as an individual and as a group? Why must you cast all criticism the way you assume all liberals cast criticism of Obama - in a sinister light? Since the 2006 midterm elections, the Republican Party has assumed no responsibilities. History has magically been altered to give Obama full credit for the bank bailout of 2008, when he was one of a hundred Senators. Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly spend hundreds of hours exposing 'liberal bias' while claiming that they represent the underprivileged and repressed majority. Unless we truly do not live in a democracy, being a member of an 'underprivileged and repressed majority' is literally not possible.

    So again, I ask, which statement of yours are we to believe? If you are systematically denied your right to free speech, how do we know that your statement about Obama isn't tampered with - how can we trust anything you say? And if the claim that only Republicans are attacked is true, your first statement has already confused us all. In either event, how can we ever trust or acknowledge anything you say ever again?
     
  21. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So are we back to posting an independent thread every time someone screws up in politics? Or is it just Steamer who's allowed to do that?

    <runs off to find 10 things the loons seeking the GOP nomination have said/done lately>

    Threads for everyone!!!
     
  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I forgot to start the "Hurricane Maria Failure Thread" once it became clear that sucker was going to miss us.

    But I figured that would just earn us the wrath of one of the later ones.
     
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Solyndra a fail, or a scandal? It's being sold as a scandal, but I haven't seen anything resembling convincing evidence of it. It seems more like a garden variety fail.

    And I need someone to convince me it's a (I'm not sure how to phrase this) disproportionate fail before I get excited about it. One company invested in a risky technology with gvt. backing, the gvt. pushed the backing through, and the company went belly up.

    Is that about the gist of it? If not, I'm eager to be educated.
     
  24. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    it's a scandal because the government credit committee said it was an investment three steps too risky. the business plan had the company losing $ WITH the guaranteed loans and additional subsidies (which hadn't been granted, nor were they likely to be). the solyndra application was shelved and dead. then your boys got involved. increased the size of the loans it would receive while their own people/credit committee were questioning the deal, and needed more time to render a damning verdict. however, biden was visiting cali in three days, and the administration needed to show it was "doing something" on jobs, so it forced through the loans so biden could hold a ribbon cutting ceremony out there. the largest 'private' backers of the project are all dem contributors, and their presence certainly didn't hurt the process (think, if $5,000 influenced Perry, imagine what $50 million could do to obama).

    you state that it was a risky tenchnology, and of course it could fail, but it could produce all kinds of new jobs. it was touted as a company to lead us forward and compete with all the 'green' companies from the rest of the world. it didn't fail because of chinese competition. just about ALL photovoltaics makers in the western world are failing because it is a developed, commoditized technology, where lowest cost of production wins the day. and its end product, energy, is more easily and cheaply derived from other sources, leading markets/consumers to chose using those other varieties over the expensive, clean kind.

    it is a scandal because there is only 1 fate a company that produces a product for $6 and sells for $3 will find, yet the administration pushed on anyways. if a private business attempted a risky loan, they'd have to answer to their investors, and would ultimately have to justify why they should get to continue to invest money on their behalf. taxpayers need to know the truth behind this 'investment', and why it turned sour. EVERYBODY knows it was a sh*te company. so why was it given money? who authorized it? what information did they have available to them that gave them such confidence it would turn into a success? even failed ventures will have a seductive story at the time they get VC funding, and Solyndra didn't have one. but none of those VC's would ever be able to raise another fund if their answer for a failed investment was "we just had to put money to work and hope it turned out ok". yet the prez now comes to us and say 'i can spend another $400 billion and get a positive result this time', even though my previous record isn't all that great.
     

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