I suggest abandoning the "CORPORAYSHUNZ R BAD, M'KAY!!!!" thing. It's not strengthening your arguments one iota and is detracting from your points.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on that... Not what I said…not even remotely… I am sure there are…but I am not sure what that has to do with anything I just said… I am sure Drogba will help the MLS sell a few tickets, (hell, I might even go see him play)… and God love him, but Drogba is old and well past is prime…it’s only out of deep respect for the man, I don’t label him “has been”…same goes for Lampard and Garrard…..how does bring old foreign players, well past their prime help, bring credibility to the MLS TODAY…it seems just another glaring example of the low level of play you seem so concerned about and somehow want to hide or downplay… But with that said, I understand why the MLS does it and needs to do it…it’s all part of the long, slow climb MLS is trying to make… Your entire stance reeks of finger pointing and blame…you blame American EPL fans for choosing EPL over MLS…I and my ilk are an active and detrimental force to your precious American soccer, as you see it… Not as I said, causation…as I said, opportunity… Why would they come over to the American game (MLS)? Lots of reasons… First and foremost, because its American…its domestic…its local…all of those can be highly marketable and appealing to Americans… People are more than capable of and willing to support different levels within the same product line, especially in the world of sports…The NFL fan can also be a College Football fan and/or a High School Football Fans…the NASCAR fan can also be a fan of lower, more local, raceways and leagues…why does anyone support a AAA baseball club when the superior and more popular produce is usually just down the road? People will support inferior and less popular products, because local (or Domestic) can be successfully marketed as a virtue or positive thing…lots and lots of American do tend to like American/local things; there is a marketable appeal that that very real attribute, but you still have to meet them half way…give them reason, actively market to them, etc… Also, as American soccer fans better understand the meta-landscape of soccer they might come to relies or be educated in the importance of having a healthy and well supported domestic league, even if healthy doesn’t mean best in the world… I really hope the MLS doesn’t share your pessimistic, write them off attitude, regarding the hordes of Americans Soccer Fans who are currently more into foreign soccer right now then MLS… This probably the most obtuse arguments you have made, which is no small feat…I didn’t choose to turn on the TV instead, it was the ONLY option I really had…no blame, just reality…and on TV, at that time, the more available, more appealing option for me was EPL… Yes, it is absolutely a great(er) advantage, but it is an advantage MLS is still struggling to fully capitalize on…besides I think you are making a rather faulty assumption…you are assuming every fan wants to experience everything MLS has to offer to the same exact extent…a 20-something, single male, in market, Chicago Fire Fan maybe into and enjoy going to every home game, being an active member of Section 8, and watching away games at the Globe or the Atlantic…it does kinda sound fun…however, as a middle aged, married, father of two, in market or not, that “full experience” doesn’t really appeal to me…I just want to watch my team play on TV from the comfort of my home, and maybe go to a single game every now and then, which I usually can manage with annual summer foreign invasion… I think it’s working out really well…I am raising an American soccer player, who at the very least will be playing for his American high school in a couple of years, and may even go on to play for an American College….I spend 1000 of American dollars a year supporting American Youth Soccer…exposure to the EPL has helped educate, inspire and motive, both my son, and myself and my wife…we are very much an American Soccer Family, to which the EPL has played an important part… Of course, it’s by choice…I have no reason to go actively looking for this information…even though I know I could find it in about 2 seconds if I wanted to…but that is just it, I don’t want, or more accurately, don’t feel the need to…Right now, I am perfectly content with soccer I am currently following and watching; it suits my needs, I am not looking for more right now… If I own a car (which I do), and I am happy with that car (which I am), I have no reason to educated myself on the new car market, because until I am actually in the market for a new car, I have no reason or motivation to do.…I might have some vague ideas of what is happening in the new car market, but only if their marketing successfully reaches me…it is their job to reach me, not the other way around… I do watch a lot of Fox and EPSN programing…I honestly didn’t know Fox, starting just this season, is splitting the TV rights with ESPN…good for FOX, they desperately need more soccer content since the loss of EPL… If you would like to believe Fox and ESPN are doing a great job of promoting the MLS, than, as Bobby says, it’s your prerogative …
I'd like to dwell on this point a bit. I've been taking a "break" from following the Crew religiously for the past few years, largely because the organization alienated me by hanging on to Robert Warzycha as coach for way too long. As a result, I only watch a few Crew games a year on TV, and don't particularly seek out MLS in general. I've filled the gap with Rugby on DVR and the EPL (mostly Man City). I listen to SiriuxXMFC every day, to the point where promos about when and where the games are on do not actually register at all. Yet I managed EARLY this season to almost literally stumble on the Sunday afternoon/evening thing. Like, almost from the off in April. I can't count the number of times I forgot that there were regular games on (and there are regular games on Saturdays that I'll randomly catch despite that being an much busier day outside of sports for me), and still managed to happen upon them. They're doing something right.
I'm not concerned about anything actually (not sure where you made that up from) in terms of the level of play. IMO it's actually much better than the vast majority feels it is (but again, perception = reality). However, it is bringing in those talismans of the game ON TOP of the Dos Santos, Giovinco, Valeri, etc types that is helping with credibility right now. The bigger part of player signings is moving towards the 3 names I just listed. However, for a still burgeoning league the likes of a Pirlo, Lampard, Gerrard, and Drogba does wonders. They get eyeballs, headlines, and exposure for the league. The MLS was all over the news upon the debuts of the English giants of the game. It instantly brings some of the best soccer minds in the game to the league to help our own players. All sorts of crap like that bring credibility to the league and our ability as a league, right now. As a soccer fan (which you are) here in America (which you are), you have to TRY to not even have a clue about when MLS matches are on TV or what channel they could possibly be on. Hell, you even told us where ESPN is in your channel lineup in regards to NBCSN ... so even during your skimming the program guide it'd be on the same screen and you'd likely notice by happenstance. It is really a neat trick to be a fan of soccer here in America and be lost in the sauce in regards to MLS matches on TV. That also means you're actively avoiding the MLS website ... hell, even if you go to ESPNFC and scroll down a page the MLS is just after Top Stories and the EPL. Yeah, that sure as shit ain't helping. It's like I alluded to this or something ... oh, I did, that's right. They can, absolutely ... but the variables involved in being each are pretty large in number. There are just as many, if not more fans that are strictly one or the other. I mean actual support in this regard. Yeah, you've got to be like minded an it is the most basic of starting points, sure. It's much, much bigger and more complicated than that though. And the fan has to meet them halfway as well ... it's the only way any efforts will ever work. Hell, the MLS got a standard doubleheader format on most weekends of the season on Sundays (which was actually a decent sized news piece when it was announced) and yet ... you literally had no clue, at all. That means you actively avoided MLS news on any outlet you choose to check (websites, channels, whatever). It was headline news on ESPNFC, FoxSoccer, MLSSoccer, and other soccer websites. As much reason as they "need" to give you, there's an equal chance you "need" to give them. This isn't a nitpick on the soccer but NON mls fans, but a reality I think that applies across the entire spectrum of "soccer fan" that resides here. It is absolutely possible to have a damned good soccer league and not even sniff the EPL or Bundesliga. That's also perfectly ok too. EVERYONE here needs to understand that. It's not that I'm pessimistic, but it's that I've seen SO MUCH IMPROVEMENT just since 2007, yet I still encounter perception from the 90's in some discussions. Hell, just the "retirement league" bullshit that's sooooo often spewed about our player signings is the perfect example of how the overbearing soccer community views the MLS. Even that is outdated if someone took 5 seconds to look at player signings. Add to that the double standard that's applied to this very set of players (Quaretaro signing Ronaldinho was a huge coup but LA trying to sign him was a desperate act to act on a name) and it adds up to a significant wall. It was, in fact, not the only option. You CHOSE to go see the big English clubs as opposed to going to MLS games (willing to be it was at least, if not more expensive to do so as well). When you do turn on the TV you choose to watch (and structure your day) to watch the EPL. Yes, those are choices you make. You have other options ... you don't exercise them. Was the EPL more available, really? Or was it just easier to find because you were already predisposed to look for it? Which is but ONE way to do it. I'm not assuming a damned thing about how every fan wants to experience what the MLS has to offer. You can be as casual as you want going to a match or you can be involved as you want. You can sit in a box, reserved seats, field seats, or be in the thick of it with the supporter's section (or sit at the opposite end from them). You can find all sorts of watch parties for away games as well. But here you are assuming that every middle aged, married, father of two thinks this way. I'm a 30something married father of two and going to a handful of live matches IS my thing. Not only do we go to Scorpions games here (NOT EVEN MLS WTFOMG) but make at least one FC Dallas and one Dynamo match a season. Of course, I can turn on FSSW and get a good chunk of the Dynamo matches ... Shit outta luck on FCD unless they're on national tv though (suck a fat one time warner). However, you CAN just watch your team play on TV from the comfort of your home ... you simply choose not too, you choose to watch the EPL. But here, you illustrate the CHOICE you're making once again with your selection of live game to go to. Again, where are you? The question is though ... if you didn't watch the EPL, would your son be playing soccer and would you be supporting him? And this is the crux of it, right here. You just commented on my "pessimistic" view and yet here you are illustrating what I'm talking to, to a T. You don't give a flying f%ck about the MLS. You acknowledge that you know you could find the info in 2 seconds and simply do not, but in the same breath have the audacity to say that the MLS needs to give you a reason? You are exactly the person that the league, and the rest of us actually don't want and don't want to try and win over. You say all this crap about the league and do all of this opining about what's wrong with it, what it could do better, and how it needs to better serve the larger audience ... but honestly don't give a good hot damn about it. You're freaking swell ... really. Actually, it is your job to do the homework and find the best, most viable option for yourself. If you wait until you need the new car, you've waited too long. Unless we get feeds from different planets .... yeah. Of course though, you've illustrated quite clearly that you are not only actively avoiding such things (even if subconsciously) but don't care any way ...
And maybe they are, and maybe I am not giving them enough credit simply because they are failing to reach me personally…that is a bit unfair on my part… This whole debate has become a tad unnecessarily and overly combative…in defending my position, I don’t mean nor intend to tear down the MLS…I do think they have a nice produce and are doing a generally good job….they are without question, doing something right….
To add on a bit..I was just the Chicago area this weekend...son had soccer tournament (go figure)...and while listening to local radio (music stations, not sport), I heard several radio ads for the Chicago Fire...I never hear those down state where we live...and opposed to actively avoiding such ads, I was stuck by how cool it was to hear an ad for a soccer team...
It bring eyeballs, headlines and exposure, I agree…credibility Today?…yeah, not sure I buy that…bring in these OLD English FORMER giants of the game, on one hand, just underscores or helps maintain the perception of the lower level of play to be found in the MLS…if Pirlo, Lampard, Gerrard, and Drogba could still hack it in the higher caliber, Top-flight foreign leagues they would be…with that said, I agree bring these players to the MLS is an important and vital marketing strategy to help grow interest the MLS…like or not, I am might actually go see an MLS game just to see some of these guys… Lol, I am an American, I don’t have to do anything…you keep putting the responsibility on the consumers, instead of the business owner…it doesn’t work that way… No business becomes successful, remains successful, or reaches its full potential by blaming potential customers for not being actual customers…this business 101 stuff… I am not actively avoiding anything…your whole active avoidance argument is not only without merit, it is utterly ludicrous… I can understand your frustration…you love something, you’ve seen that something improve over the years, and yet too few people appreciate it and see it like you do…unfortunately, all its done is leave sounding anger and bitter… You are horrible advocate for the MLS…. Yes, I have other options…I never really said I didn’t…I said better options, more available options…and yes, in MY subjective opinion the EPL was/is the best, most available option for me… I am sorry you find it so hard to believe that I actually enjoy watching soccer on Saturday and Sunday morning over coffee (I am up by 6am everyday regardless) and then having the rest of the day to do other stuff…it’s a routine I have come love and enjoy very much… I am not assuming anything…I simply pointed that that not everyone is interested equally in gong to live games…and if you are ONLY dealing with watching soccer on TV, the MLS holds no inherent advantage over any another league on TV… Downstate, central Illinois…if I was to become a MLS fan, it would be via the Chicago Fire….actually have seen them play, but we were admittedly there more for Rooney and Co., then for the Fire…for the last couple of years, I do keep saying and thinking we need to go see a Fire game…I’ve even managed to locate their schedule on line all by myself (you would be so proud)…but alas, we just haven’t done so yet… There is also a USL team in St. Louis now (just starting playing this year) that is closer to us that we’ve talked about going to see…my son has actually played in their stadium…but once again, we just haven’t found or made the time yet… All of which I am sure makes me a horrible, horrible, lazy, ignorant person… I would assume so, but once again, that’s not what I said nor claimed…I never claimed, IF NOT FOR the EPL… I would think that’s a bit overstated, don’t ya think…I am sure spending a lot of time talking about something I supposedly don't give a flock about... I am sorry you feel that way, and I hope you really don’t speak for the majority of MLS fans or the league itself…it really hard not to imagine you have overly personalized this whole debate and are projecting a lot crap and baggage that has far more to do with you, then anything I’ve said or done… How in the world would it be too long or be too late? That make absolutely no sense what so ever… Great, now I am subconsciously actively avoiding…I think you’re consciously full of it…
Umm...Lamps was a huge part of City's setup last year to the point where the Parent Club explicitly hung on to him through the end of the EPL season when he was previously scheduled to start with NYCFC earlier. I don't think anyone serious has suggested that Pirlo was washed up, least of them being Juventus. Chelsea probably still wouldn't mind having Drogba on their bench. What of Giovinco? Gio dos Santos? Is Kaka really past it? In fact, the league hasn't really had a Lothar Mattheus type aged disaster for probably a decade or more. I'm not sure why you persist on dealing in perceptions that look suspiciously like you're looking for reasons to justify not supporting the league. These are the very things cited by those that we have referred to previously as people who will never give the league a chance. They simply aren't true anymore. And for the record, I'm as shocked and pleased as anyone as to the quality of imports in recent years. And lest I forget, Guillermo Baros Schellotto, though ancient at the time was invaluable to not only the Crew, but the league. He was fresh off his one millionth title with Boca Juniors and took the job more seriously than anyone, bringing along some young, mid-level Argentinian talent and helping the Spanish-speakers integrate (despite him arriving with zero English himself - he's a brilliant man who studies culture, too). Had things worked out differently, most believe he would have become the manager (he loved it here) and started a new generation of talented, young, foreign managers that would have broken the endless MLS/college cycle we're only now emerging from.
We can quibble over adjectives and how much they individually have left in the tank…but there is little debate, by most objective standards, they are past their prime and are in the end stages of their careers… I have repeatedly stated signings like Drogba and Lamps are a good thing and personally makes it more likely I will go to a MLS game, so I am not sure how that translates into me looking for reasons not to support the league…
Giovinco is no-shit in his prime. So is Gio dos Santos, for that matter. Lamps was a huge part of the 2nd place team in the EPL as recently as May. Because, to those of us who have been around for 20 years, it sounds suspiciously like that exact line of argumentation. Maybe it's a cynical view, but it's been cultivated through observation and experience.
If the MLS were the only option for most of them, you might could argue this point. It wasn't though. You don't think there are a handful, or more EPL clubs that wouldn't love to have Gerrard or Lampard right now? Pirlo would have been a coup for a Serie A team ... he's coming right off starting for Juventus and being a main player in their CL final run ... there's literally hundreds of thousands of soccer players that would love to be defined as not being able to hack it in the high caliber top flight leagues by way of Pirlo's situation. You can have the greatest product in the world .... but if nobody picks it up, it matters not what you've done. You have to be one of the densest SOB's alive to not have even heard a peep about the new standardized TV schedules for the MLS this season. The fact that you're a soccer fan and had absolutely zero clue is ludicrous, especially when you try to pile on saying that the MLS isn't doing enough to get the attention. ESPN and Fox have promoted the hell out of the league this season (full on with cross promotion and feature spots during peak viewing times in completely unrelated content) yet you claim to not even have been aware. Yes, that is on you. You're already predisposed to not giving a damn about it ... you've said as much yourself. Even flippant guide surfing would have given you a clue. Being a soccer fan, yes you'd basically have to be trying to not see it, to not see it. To not even be aware. Because you're the poster boy for .... yeah ok, no. I do that to ... however, sometimes we do things in the morning before it gets stupid damned hot and I watch the afternoon/evening MLS matches. Odd how going to a live match featuring a big English club is somehow more available to someone living in the US ... do really not understand how that maths is a bit wonky? Not true ... being an American, the MLS holds the inherent advantage of being my domestic league featuring clubs from my home state (possibly city), most likely featuring players I either know or watched when they were in college. It is also the league that hosts the most USMNT players and a good majority of the younger USMNT hopefuls. No, it just illustrates the point. You'll go see the Fire when Rooney is in town ... so yeah, you won't go see the Fire. You keep saying we need to get to a fire game, but somehow over those same years managed to find a way to get to those big English clubs when they come to the US. But it's the league that needs to do even more to reach out to you ... none of it lies with you. No, but you sure tried to paint a rosy picture of how amazing the EPL enlightenment you've had has fostered this American soccer family and their investment in American soccer. Given everything that's come to light in this discussion ... no, it's not an overstatement at all. Amateur attempts at psycho analyzing are funny. I do admit you put on display, front and center the "it's you, not me" defense ... you do it here, and you push it on the MLS as well. You said yourself you know crap all about new cars. If your car shits the bed in the morning ... I can easily say you're consciously obtuse on the majority of the matters being discussed and consciously try to create a picture of those that engage you in debate because they don't line up with everything you "know" ... Which has dick all to the point you tried to make about them. ManU kept re-signing Scholes ... Queretaro signed Sinha at 38. There's no difference. ... which means you're full of shit, or a hypocrite. You questioned the credibility they bring TODAY, spout off about how they're past their prime and at the end of their careers, and then sit here and say they're more likely to get you to go see a game. So which is it, full of shit or hypocrite?
Note, this is precisely the mechanism by which I "stumbled" upon MLS several times this season. I do it a lot, though.
We really need to stop all this cattiness and attempts to out “asshole” the other, and for my part, I apology and will cease…it’s all fun and games for a time, but after a while it just makes us look small and childish… You might be correct…but slice it anyway you like, it’s still feels like a retirement tour for many/most of them…for the most part, they’ve got a few more seasons left. And they either can play those remaining seasons in the MLS as the Star Marquee Player they have always been, or they can spend them on a some mid to lower end table foreign team, being seriously pushed by younger players, having to deal with far greater fan and media scrutiny and pressure, and eventually probably being forced to the position of bench or role player…Not that there is anything wrong either; but not every former Star Player is suited or motivated to be a Role Player….not everyone is built like a Scholes or a Giggs… You can have the greatest product in the world .... but if nobody picks it up, you have failed miserably… Maybe I am densest SOB alive…I am a soccer fan…however, I never claimed expert ninja status…. New standardized TV schedules for the MLS this season…very interesting…that’s great and a smart move on the MLS’ part; the very innovation competition breeds…I know when I was looking to watch more soccer 3-4 years ago, the standardize TV schedule of the EPL was a big draw from me… It was great knowing that 95% for the time if I tuned in on Saturday and Sunday mornings I was reasonability guaranteed to catch a EPL/Chelsea game…IF only the MLS had this standardized TV schedule back then, maybe things would have been different…hopefully this will help new fans find their way to the league… You say the Fox is promoting the hell out this new and improved schedules, and I will take you at your word…perhaps technology and my viewing habits account for me missing it, as opposed to my active sinister avoidance …you see I tend to DVR most of my shows, and watch them later, skipping over the commercials…maybe with the start of the NFL season, I will start to see some of this cross promotion…my Chicago Bears play on Fox…I promise I will be on the lookout for it…and an actual Fire game following a Bears game might just be the reason I need…you never know… That’s cool…unfortunately for me, by the time Sunday afternoon, and especially by Sunday evening rolls around, I am bit done with soccer or sports in general…that time is usually reserved for family TV shows and movies... Nothing really wonky about when you think it though…If I only care about seeing 1 live match a year, which is about what I average, then the MSL holds no mathematical advantage, given invasion of big English clubs every summer…however, I want to see, say, 5 or more soccer games a year, then yeah, the MLS would be a better choice… Good point…I have to admit when getting more into soccer (3-4 years ago), following the USMNT in great detail and outside of WC years, really wasn’t really a high priority…to be honest, I wouldn’t say it is even now…don’t get me wrong, I support USMNT and I do try watch all their games, friendlies and various qualifiers included….but following the player development of the team in great detail, isn’t really something I am into… but yes, if you were all into that, then I agree the MLS would be great league to follow… As I’ve said, so far, 1 live game a year is more than enough for me…its comes down to priorities…if I know Chelsea is coming the US in July, then I make seeing one of those games a priority… And what exactly is the problem with that? Soccer in general and the EPL specifically, has been a positive addition to my family…it give us common interests, common experiences, and common joys…could we get all that with MLS instead? Of course, we could…and, maybe, someday we will… I have no agenda against the MLS…I have no ax to grind …I am not trying, meaning to, or intending to hate on or bash the MLS or its fans, in any way…any criticizes I may have leveled were always intend to be constructive…. Who said anything about your car taking a shit? Maybe it’s my middle-class, Midwest bias taking over, but in my experience, nobody waits until their car literally dies on the side of the road before they start thinking about a new car…most people starting thinking and looking for a new car well before that; more than enough time to research the market and their next car…I believe the US average between car purchases is about every 6 years…. I don’t believe I am either…I specifically said, on one hand, I question whether these type of signings actually increases the credibility of the MLS, but with that said, I agree bring these players to the MLS is an important and vital marketing strategy to help grow interest the MLS… Just because I don’t necessarily think these signing increase credibility doesn’t mean I believe the polar opposite - that they decrease credibility… Me personally wanting to go see the Fire play the Impact primarily so I can see Drogba play has nothing to do with the creditability of the MLS, good or bad…If and when I go to that match, what I actually see on the pitch, will…
Ok, fair enough… Yes, I remember it well…one game and goal in particular…he’s still 37 years old… Please take my opinions and arguments as there are, not what they sound like…
Agreed, and on my end as well apologies. This is the perception I'm talking about ... outside of Rafa Marquez, it's hard to point to a 'Lampard' over the last 5 years or so that has come over and fluffed through their MLS contract. Now, I'm not talking about guys that simply didn't work out with the league for a number of reasons (Kris Boyd for instance) ... but rather the big name that came over and simply didn't give a shit and was riding it out. When people take the 5 minutes to actually look into it though they'll see that there's a very distinct pattern of over reaching (Denilson) that has moved on too honestly trying to find the balance of the Lampard/Keane/Henry/Beckham types with Valeri/Morales/Chara types .... and the trend is getting younger as we've broken through with Bradley/Giovinco/Martins/Gio in terms of the star/name also being an IN PRIME player. We've also trended more towards the Mauro Diaz, Fabian Castillo types. The hang up, is that we have to pay the big names relative stupid big money to come here (which feeds the perception) because of the reality of where our league sits in the world of soccer. It doesn't have the draw as an entirety that European clubs do (history, cl and euro play). I can spend millions on marketing to the point that my product floods prime time tv, live sporting events, infomercials, qvc, the newspapers that still do print, are on the top banner of all major websites, and even do email flooding .... but in the end, you as the consumer still have to try the product. You have to take the few seconds to read the product description or listen to it. You have to make the decision to see what it's all about. Nothing I can do does any of that for you. All the attempts in the world to capture attention does not mean that it will be. You can bring a horse to water ... Oddly enough, it was in the same place and the MLS started the season before: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/01/05/mls-2012-national-tv-schedule-nbc-espn-galavision NBC absolutely cross promoted their EPL and MLS programming. ... and this directly speaks to the point where you say they need to do more. Your viewing habits eliminate the vast majority of chance to reach you through their advertising etc on the main source of doing so. How is that on the league? Which is fine ... but again, if this is the case, how exactly can the MLS do more in your regard? You've got to make the effort one afternoon. The point, is the one I'm making about having to make the active choice to give the league a chance. If you only go to 1 match a year or so, and you prioritize the big English clubs ... there isn't anything the league can do. You're also making a choice that (not intentionally by you) all but sets up the MLS to fail in catching your attention because you're paying attention to the big Euro club and seeing the gap first hand. It creates a false context in a sense. How then, is the league ever going to be able to present to you the inherent advantages it does have? How can the league do more in this regard? I was merely speaking to how you portrayed the point and the light you were seemingly casting on it. There's absolutely no issue with this ... I'm not, at all, poo pooing anyone's (nor your) love of soccer in general or following of any club not in the MLS (I'm in a freaking NASL city). .... it's just hard to see that when you give your reasons and preferences for how/why things are with you and the don't line up with the insistence that the MLS needs to do more to grab you. With what you've given as your habits/preferences ... there's really not anything MORE they can do. I mean, you're a DVR viewer (which I totally get because we're heavy in that regard as well) but talk about how you don't see anything promotion wise from the league ... see how that doesn't add up? I was going off of what you said .... you really don't know what's going on with new cars. So what if yours shit the bed in the morning? Why is it that they're a marketing tool though? The very definition of credibility is "the quality of being trusted and believed in" ... is it not the trust and belief these players have built in themselves and their abilities that draw the eyeballs and interest to the league? Does that not speak to the league being a credible place for them to play ... .... especially when applied to Gio or the Atomic Ant? So? Your ability/form is what dictates, not your age. Nolan Ryan was 42 when he signed for the Rangers ... didn't stop him from throwing 2 more no-hitters, leading the league in Ks two more times, posting an ERA under 3 for three more seasons, leading the league in WHIP twice more, leading the league in hits per 9, beating the crap out of Robin Ventura, and throwing a 98 mph heater with a torn ligament in his arm.
All I can say is, if I am guilty of that perception, it doesn’t stem for any malice on my part nor do I believe I am so obstinate, that my perceptions can’t be changed… …but you can’t make him watch…lol, yeah I get that…but the answer, as much as you may like, isn’t taking that horse around back and shooting him in the head…. But my viewing habits are not directly aimed at avoiding the MLS specifically…my viewing habits are aimed at eliminate most TV advertising and commercials, and yet I still know and hear about lots of things I know I am skipping over with a couple of clicks of a button…new TV shows, new Movies, new alcoholic beverages, whatever…those businesses and advertisers are using some other avenues to find and reach me…marketing campaigns should always be multidimensional… But with that said, as this marketing campaign is still relatively new, there is still time….if Fox is smart, and I more than trust they are, I fully expect to be bombarded by MLS promotions this coming NFL season…my viewing habits will be much different during live pre- and game time coverage… As I alluded to earlier, Fox packaging a NFL/MLS doubleheader would be a fanatic idea…if most Fall Sundays, I could watch the Bears play at Noon, followed by a 3 o’clock Fire game, that might be pretty freckin’ cool…I don’t know if that is currently possible given all the logistics and multiple contracts involved…but by the MLS moving most of its games to Sunday late afternoon and evening, it certainly opens the door to this intriguing possibility… I seem to recall Fox did something like this back when they had the EPL contract…however, the 3 pm EPL games were tape delayed, and for me anyway, didn’t do much…I had already watched the game at earlier or knew the score and had no interest in watching…I don't think they did it very often...ratings probably weren't that great... Continuing and expanding this point, like the NFL, the MLS needs better regional coverage as opposed to just national coverage and marketing…my Bears game followed by just any MLS game really doesn’t work as well or have the same impact (at least not initially)…I am never going to be general MLS fan until I am a specific team fan… Yes, but things change…while I have enjoyed going to see these big English clubs the last few summers, and I may still do so in the future, I am not unaware that these matches are mostly over-priced, meaningless, relatively crap, games… as I’ve said, I am looking to go to a Fire or STL FC game, I just haven’t yet…and the reason I haven’t so far has more do with my family’s busy schedule then being snobbishly opposed to going to a MLS or USL game…because I am not.... Then I deal with it…that is a crisis that must be dealt with…my preference of sports I watch or teams/leagues I follow don’t really fall under the crisis banner… Not with respect to players like Drogra, Lamps and Garrard…and as an EPL fan, those are the players I know… Giovinco, not so much…even so, a good, young player that I am sure brings creditability to the MLS…and if I was a Serie A fan, I might have a slightly different take on things… But I am still motivated/interested in seeing players like Drogra, Lamps and Garrard, not because of what they bring they may or may not bring to the MLS (until I actually watch some MLS games, I am really in no position to judge), but solely because of who they are…Drogra and Lamps are freckin’ Chelsea legends…they could be 50, standing on field alone, kicking balls into an empty net, and I would pay to see that… We may not agree the details, but we both agree in general these player coming to the MLS is very good for league… Yes, there are always exceptions to point to…but these freak of nature are the rare occurrence, not the norm…I would love nothing more than to see Drogra or Lamps tear up the MLS…and I would gladly and proudly eat all the crow you would care to serve up should that happen….
Fair enough ... ... and no, it isn't. But what's the middle ground? Those things are much more main stream and pop culture than any sporting league sans the NFL ... there's plenty of work they DON'T have to do themselves. ... this is just an observation ... what changes from your schedule now (up earlier, coffee and EPL match and then afternoon for Fam/activites/etc) to NFL season where you'd sit through an NFL/MLS doubleheader (where the MLS match is in the same exact time slot for both)? Would you not still watch the Sunday morning EPL match? Would you watch all three, but only really have time for the one right now? That's a pretty dramatic shift if so. Do you see how this can be a bit fishy? Again, this is just an observation and not a shit sling. Yes, that was garbage ... Where you a general EPL fan before you were a specific club fan? If not, how did you get to be a specific fan of an EPL club without first being into the league? To put that on the MLS is a bit rough though. Most Dynamo matches will be at 6/7 PM if not on national TV and will not be anywhere near a direct lead in from the Texans (and they're on Root Sports regionally). No MLS team is on a regional station that also show's their city's NFL team as the main fox channel and networks don't show the MLS matches. That's reeeeeeaaaallllly hard to pin on the league. Way to many other variables in that equation. What if Gerrard had signed with Everton? Would he have not brought instant credibility to the club and midfield?
Logistically and...televisionly?...an MLS/NFL doubleheader would be a poorly-performing gimmick at best. Among several, there is a big reason MLS wraps up before the NFL gets into the meat of its schedule. There's also a reason why MLS has improved its station as it's shed more and more of its ties to anything related to the NFL (the Revs in Foxboro are about all that's left aside from the Sounders in WhateverIt'sCalled Stadium - which works because the Seahawks and the Sounders stay the hell away from one another.
It took you this long to figure that one out? I believe I got a yellow card on bigsoccer a few weeks ago for honestly stating what would happen if that douche ever talked to me like that in a bar. And if I didn't have the condescending know-it-all on ignore, I'd surely get a red. Back to the matter at hand... I used to hate the people I perceived as Europoseurs back in the 1990s because I felt they were being elitist and unsupportive of the important concept that we needed a viable domestic league developing viable American talent. They'd root for a country other than the USA in the WC and would say things like "this isn't OUR game" and "Americans can't play soccer" or "American women are better players than the men." But now, what I see is most of the same fans at WC gatherings wearing USA kits also support EPL/Liga/Bundesliga clubs, their local club (if they have one), and if their local club is not in MLS, may surprisingly skip MLS all together... even for those of us living in a non-MLS city who follow a club, I think alot of us are getting our regular soccer fix with EPL every Saturday and Sunday morning while skipping MLS tv games on Saturday nights for the most part in favor of NBA/MLB/College Football.
Physically separate I might understand…but ignore the shared market and connection? Especially in markets were the city identity is strong… Bears Fan, Cubs or Sox Fan (never both), Blackhawk Fan, Bulls Fan…9 times out of 10, this is all the same person…not sure why Fire Fan couldn’t be added to the mix…preferably for me, this NFL/MLS double header would be regionally specific…
All the while bitching and moaning about how the MLS isn't catering to you .... odd thing to do for someone that skips it all together.
MLS has not moved most of its games to Sunday. Most games are still on Saturday night. The nationally broadcast games are on Friday night and Sunday afternoon/evening. That is usually 3 of the 10 or 12 games each week. The Fire had 9 Sunday games this year with only two of them after September 1. Those two games are part of the flex schedule at the very end of the season in October so the exact time and network are TBD.
Most sports leagues run away from the NFL. IndyCar wraps up its season early so as to avoid the NFL. A NFL/MLS doubleheader would do little good as many people (myself included) watch NFL Sundays via RedZone.
Except that explicit ties to the NFL, much less doubleheaders, have been proven failures at getting that "Chicago Fan".
Holy crap, I totally missed that he thought that because there's a regular schedule of games on Sundays, that that means "MLS has moved most of their games". Good catch. Again, all this is just another round of "oh, you met one of my goofy recommendations? Well, I still can't come/pay attention because you haven't met THIS goofy recommendation".