Soccer, sports and politics (R)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Nov 4, 2022.

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  1. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    I'm not a Husky, I'm a grad of another UW; a school that could go undefeated year after year and not be included because ... reasons.

    I think the entire system is ridiculous. A small group of people vote on who gets to make the playoffs. Good thing people can't be bribed!

    Using your argument the Sounders should be in the playoffs every year, regardless of their record, simply because of their past history. If that sounds ridiculous, then so is giving the SEC a spot just because of history.

    If an SEC team is included, that means either two undefeated teams were left out (FSU and Liberty, more on that below), or they chose a team that lost at home to an excluded top team with the same record and still left out an undefeated team. Alabama lost at home to Texas by 10 points and they have the same record. As such, choosing Alabama over Texas would be laughable, just as choosing Georgia over Alabama would be laughable. Oregon has an argument that they only lost to one team, a team with an unbeaten record, and lost only by 3 points each time. They don't deserve to be in, but neither does any SEC team. At least Oregon didn't lose by double digits!

    Having an unbeaten team not included for the championship simply shows how stupid the system is. Conference champions should determine who makes the playoffs, all 10 of them, not a small group of people voting. You still have the issue of Notre Dame and the other independents like Liberty. Either force them to get a conference (but would conferences accept some of them?) or figure out a way to include the next best or two or six best teams (as much as I think "power rankings" are a ridiculous way to choose the teams, there isn't a reasonable and fair alternative if independents exist). Maybe only include them if they go unbeaten.
     
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  2. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #8827 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    I don't see how Bama is out. Knocked off #1 and Saban is a CFB favorite.

    I got:

    Bammy
    Michigan
    TX
    Huskies. Oddsmakers had them as a 9 pt dog vs Oregon even tho they beat them in the regular season. Strange line.

    An onteresting thing flashed on Iowa-Michigan game & not sure I've heard this before. Ferentz's son was the OC at Iowa and was under heavy pressure to like, score some points. So the AD said to keep your job you have to average 25 ppg. They averaged under that. He was canned. :D

    Someone had a ppg tracker

    https://brianferentzpointstracker.com/
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having most of the conference champions in the playoffs won't be an issue next year when the field is expanded, but as of now there's no way to do that. So then the question becomes what's the committee's remit? Is it to try to pick the best 4 teams in the country---ridiculously subjective---or undefeated teams? Liberty? LOL.

    If the idea is to pick the best 4 teams in the country, FSU probably isn't right now due to their QBs injury. But I can also see why it would be really harsh to leave them out, and my guess is they will not be left out. So that being said, which one loss team gets left out? Texas or Bama. Head to head you would think would make that an easy decision this year, but leaving out the SEC champ would be unprecedented. I don't envy them. If it's me, despite being an SEC person and my preference to be able to say the only team to beat us won the whole thing-----I'd lean to Texas.
     
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  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As is literally every American League, pro or college. It’s just how we do sports.

    Change the word “cartel” and it’s also true of every other league in the world.

    And about your sig…there’s an ASMR artist named Candy Crush whom the algorithm recommends from time to time, but long ago I figured out she’s more of a cam girl. Is that what the sig is about?

    I’m trying to imagine a soft voice reading the 14 words, and it’s freaking me out a bit.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or Zava going to Richmond.
     
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  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is exactly where it breaks down. That is, so far as I know, undefined. Is the goal to pick 4 that will result in the worthiest champion? In that case, Alabama just beat Georgia on a neutral field so Georgia is out, so the committee should (since Notre Dame isn’t in the convo) pick from the 5 conference champions. Probably Alabama is in and Texas out.

    Is the goal to draw the most TV interest? Then You have to include Georgia going for a 3 peat.

    Is the goal to reward excellence over the whole season? In that case it’s clear that you pick the 4 conference champions not named Alabama.

    If the goal is to pick the best 4 teams right now, then yeah, FSU is out. But Ohio State won the playoffs one year with a 3rd stringer.

    But nobody knows the standards, because there aren’t any,
     
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  7. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I'm guessing a fair number of conference champs will nonetheless be left out because ... reasons. It will still be a ridiculous system where a small number of people pick who makes the playoffs based largely on reputation and influence.


    The Big 12 champ beat the SEC champ at the SEC champ's home by double digits. There's no question which one should be left out.
     
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  8. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #8833 Sounders78, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023

    Could you imagine the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS ... deciding its champion by having a [edit: baker's dozen] of people pick 4 teams to compete in a playoff format, with the understanding that they don't have to pick division winners, teams with the best records, etc?

    It's complete nonsense.
     
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  9. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But all these teams in these various leagues also play each other, in some cases multiple times throughout the season, therefore, the division winners, teams with the best records, etc., will have played for the most part the same teams everyone else played. Obviously, in college football that doesn't happen so it's not exactly a like for like comparison. So that it goes back to my initial question which superdave highlighted---what is the committee's job?
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s how the NCAA does all of its championships. It’s just that in all other sports, they can invite enough teams that nobody thinks, hey that team they left out might be the best team. So few teams go to the football playoffs that it becomes a controversy in a deeper way than, say, March Madness. The argument about the best 2-3 teams that didn’t make it in Selection Sunday is forgotten within 48 hours because everyone knows those teams would never win the whole thing.

    That year Ohio State won, they were a controversial pick because they lept past a pair of Big 12 teams with 1 loss. (I think I have that right. Too lazy to Wikipedia it.). Those Big 12 teams had beef, just like this year we realistically have 6 teams with a claim on 4 spots.

    The thing is, expanding it to 8 solves that problem but creates another. With a 4 team playoff, I as a neutral cares about Michigan vs. Ohio State. With 8 team I don’t because that’s just a game for seeding. Same with the Washington-Oregon game.

    College football seems to be going the same path as basketball by devaluing the regular season. In basketball that has had a profound influence, as the ACC has seen its financial strength diminish as regular season basketball has diminished. So as an ACC fan, I say, be careful what you wish for.
     
  11. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    But you could still have a situation where the committee decides not to include a division winner because they decide a 2nd or 3rd place team from another division is more "worthy".

    And you are right, the college teams don't play each other which is why every conference champion should be included. Liberty could finish the year as the only undefeated team in the country (if a 1-loss team wins the "playoff"), yet with no chance in hell of having had the chance to compete in the playoffs. It's simply ridiculous.

    And I just looked at who the committee is made up of - not exactly a non-partisan group of people. It includes an AD from the 5 big conferences, but not so much the smaller conferences. The system is completely rigged to begin with.
     
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  12. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    But in basketball ALL the conference champions make the playoffs [edit: tournament champions that is, which is another thing altogether].


    It's already devalued when undefeated teams have no chance of even competing for the national championship. Either that or stop calling it a national championship.
     
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  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but seeing Sounders defend Falwell U is freaking me the ******** out.
     
  14. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Exactly! Trust me, it's not easy to do, but I care about fairness.

    The NFL has 8 divisions. Let's have 13 people decide on which 4 teams should make the playoffs, and it's ok to have two teams from the same division because they were good in the past!
     
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  15. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    You're cheerier than usual today! :p
     
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  16. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven’t seen much of that, especially on this site. Pretty much every knowledgeable fan of the league knows MLS is well below the level of La Liga or Ligue 1. That doesn’t mean the league hasn’t increased in quality over the years, or that you can’t enjoy following it.
     
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are you posting on a MLS forum?

    NISA is the independently owned league of choice.
     
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  18. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maybe he just wants to see them get their ass kicked in front of the whole country.
     
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  19. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Wait, the "Politics and Current Events" Forum is now the "MLS" Forum?

    Good to know.
     
  20. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Ain't he your cousin!?!
     
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  21. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Wait, what?

    I get plenty of posters who get deeply hurt and insulted if I tell them so.

    To that I say that Peter Nowak and team mates would kick the ever-living sh!t out of today's fire team.

    Or that the Bolivians in the early dcu teams would curbstomp today's dcu team.

    Not seeing much improvement, TBH.
     
  22. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    You mean some of the best teams in the league’s history would beat some of the worst teams in the league’s history?

    Galaxy-brain thinking here.
     
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  23. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Leaving aside the fact that those hypotheticals are impossible to prove, you’re comparing the best teams in the league in one era to some of the worst teams in the league in another. That doesn’t seem like the most useful metric.

    And regarding people who insist MLS is at the same level as a top 5 European league, I’d love to see those posts if you can find them. Was that in the MLS forum?
     
  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    What's my prize for guessing the final 4?
    And if FSU goes undefeated, can they claim a national championship?

    College Football Playoff rankings, Dec. 3:
    #1 Michigan
    #2 Washington
    #3 Texas
    #4 Alabama
    #5 Florida State
    #6 Georgia
     
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  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see what you did there.
     

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