I do happen to agree with Three Apples and others who say that a ball can be either round or oval. However, as far as I can find, this post is the first mention of that subject that I've made in this entire 17-zillion-page thread, so I don't know what efforts you are talking about. However, maybe I am so transparent that you can figure out my efforts even before I make them. After all, you were right about my opinion. Just to complicate this seminar on geometry, here is a quote from Brian Glanville's book "The Story of the World Cup," about a goal during the Brazil-Argentina game at the 1982 World Cup: Serginho rose to the cross and headed in, thus briefly giving the lie to the Brazilian critic who had said 'When Serginho plays, the ball is square.' I presume that this critic was not insulting your favorite player, since Serginho never played for Flamengo. Most of the clubs he played for seem to have been from Sao Paulo. However, the source where I looked that up is in English, so I suppose it can't be trusted.