From the SoB Facebook today: WHINER WEDNESDAY: Think of it like the Festivus "Airing of the Grievances" and let us know WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE 2012 EVEN BETTER THAN 2011? We can't guarantee to please everyone, but we can guarantee to take all suggestions seriously.. even the silly ones. Whatcha got? I suggested more togetherness (and possibly more numbers) of capos and drums in TRE to help chants be more audible and spur more involvement. Getting everyone on the same page instead of wondering who's where would make TRE even more of a monster.
1) A platform / scaffold type setup, to raise the main (center) capos higher so that more people can see them. 2) Signs that can be held up to indicate the next song in the rotation.
Not sure if I should even say this since any sort of dissenting opinion quickly causes the whole discussion to go to hell, but I'm kind of skeptical of both suggestions. The assumption is that they will improve coordination, and I don't doubt that. Personally I've never had a problem identifying the songs/chants, but I imagine those in the outlying areas could benefit from a taller stand and signs. Both would make things easier for the dedicated base (and everyone on BS). That being said, the assumption applies to people who already make the effort to participate all the time and excludes those who, for whatever reason, don't. So I think the negative psychological effect on many of those fans might outweigh the benefits. I think a raised platform might come off as self-anointing and the signs as hyper-organization. The sign thing especially strikes me as a lame, friday night varsity football type of idea. Frankly I don't think it'll solve anything in the least bit, no offense. I think the biggest issue is a fan's willingness and desire to participate, and our best bet is to promote and nurture those instead of trying to fell the tree from the top so to speak. We have to be unified in spirit (and I use that word in the least mystical sense possible. We have to get the vibe right, i.e.) before we're unified in voice. If we're trying to create an intimidating yet festive stadium wide atmosphere for these matches we have to first create that atmosphere in TRE. We're getting there, but we're still pretty far from that goal. It's gonna take time. Our friends in Cascadia've set the bar pretty high needless to say.
I know this isn't in the right forum but I have a question that I need answered quickly. Let me start by saying I am a club box founding member, sitting 1 row behind the Union bench. I can't say enough about games. It's the highlight of my week. Everybody I have taken to PPL has come away a fan after 90 minutes. This leads me up to my question. I have taken my 17 year old daughter and her friends to games. They have grown into true fans. My idea was for the parents to get the girls SoB membership and season tixs in the supporters section. Is there a minimum age to join SoB? Would it be best for each parent to join their daughter individually? Any thoughts?
Sober Tom I don't think your opinion was a dissenting one at all. I think there is room for both points. I wasn't saying an elevated platform or signs would be a single cure to everything, I was just saying it would be one part of an improved Sons of Ben. I normally sit in 138, on the aisle with 137, a handful of rows up. Basically the perfect spot to see the Capo. But I have also spent time in 139/140 and it's basically impossible to get involved in the chants from out there because by the time you've picked up on it then it ends. There are plenty of people who want to participate out there, it's just more difficult for them than it is for the folks in the center. So I was making a suggestion to improve on that specific issue: Ease of participation from section to section. I certainly would agree that you also raised another important issue: Varying levels of participation from seat to seat. I just didn't have a suggestion to fix that issue, but I still think that those on the low side of the participation curve would get more involved if the singing was really coming from everywhere, rather than just average
Have you checked out the SOB website? www.sonsofben.com I didn't see anything about minimum ages in the FAQ, but there's a contact form for specific questions.
I'm not sure what exactly your point is. SOB asked for suggestions, someone made a suggestion and you said it would work. The people in the back half of TRE generally can't see or hear shit until it makes it way back to them, which leads to disjointed chants. You agreed with that. What's the problem? If you want to bring up reasons why the vibe isn't right, I certainly have unpopular opinions on that (which I've expressed), but that's for a different thread.
"I think a raised platform might come off as self-anointing and the signs as hyper-organization. The sign thing especially strikes me as a lame, friday night varsity football type of idea." The other point was that we need to improve the vibe, which I admit is a pretty vague goal. So all in all, maybe not very strong points, but there they are nonetheless. I sit at the top of 136 and I have no problem making out what chant/song is being chanted or sung. I imagine it's a different story for people beyond 136-137-138.
Do you think the regular platform is self-anointing? Because a raised platform would just be a regular platform that does its job better. I'm also not sure what you mean by self-anointing. Do you not want people to lead chants at all?
I, myself, don't think it's self-anointing. I completely agree with you and everyone else who supports the idea that it'd make things easier. It might not be a cure-all, but it'd surely help. The card thing would definitely not help though. I'm not budging on that one. I was just placing myself in the shoes of the people who are still not totally on the same page as we are-people who are relatively new to the supporter's culture and may not be familiar with the fact that many supporters groups/ultras use platforms, or may not be completely comfortable with the idea of someone telling them what and when to chant/sing. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe those people would be down with the idea and respect its practicality. I guess the only way to tell is to try it out. But I don't think it'd be wise to leave those people who are new and/or less hardcore out of consideration when we talk about improvements.
I would think that a raised platform and signs would be far less intimidating to those people than the current method, which involves people running around yelling at them.
plus, signs are easier to ignore than someone yelling in your face. seriously, its not the fact that our chants are hard, or complicated, or bad(well, to some extent it is...i mean really...Vindaloo? we don't even have any english players on the first team). Fact of the matter that once you get out of the middle 3-3.5 sections NO ONE CARES about singing, tifo, supporting the team. It's the cheapest seats in the park and everyone knows it. The SoB don't need to address accessibility to learning chants, they need to make a stance on exactly how they will(or realistically, wont), deal with people who don't participate, and then get in your face when you point them out for it.