So,,, Where is the beef???

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Yankee_Devil, Feb 7, 2008.

  1. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    So we had another game with mexico and aside from the result lets look at the team under Coach Bradley.

    When we got rid off Arena the outcry was to bring somebody in that would take the team to that next level. Where the US was not only the best out of Concacaf but move to be being one of the best teams in the world.

    After the debacle that was the pursuit of Klinnsman it was followed a internship of the worst kind. Hiring a Coach that had not won anything of any significance since the year 2000.

    Much of the critiscism against Bradley was dispelled after going undefeated for the fist 3 months of his tenure.

    Now that the honeymoon is over; that the memories of those wins are long gone; that the reality of a tie against Mexico is here; and the lack of direction of the team is obvies. Is it time for us again to ask if we need a new coach?

    It is my humble of opinion that even though Coach Bradley has not done a bad job of coaching this team, he is not up to the task. I have seen enough of games with him in charge that I do not see the difference in the strategic or tactical part of the US game.

    One of the most glaring differences of the team coached under Bradley has to be Landon Donovans role. Now Landon has seem to be a regular fixture on the right side of our midfield with Dempsey having moved up. I believe that this is prob Bradley's only decisive move since becoming Head Coach.

    I am not saying however that this is a good move or a bad one, I am simply estating that this is his most notorious difference between him and his predecesor.

    For the large part this team still seems aloof, slow, sluggish, devoided of any imaginative perspective to the approach of scoring goals. At times it even makes me long for the years under Arena.

    Some fans may point out that maybe we just dont have the personel to achive anymore than we already have. I would say that is defeatist perspective. One that only serves to make life easier for those that in charge of giving us a winning national team.
     
  2. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To your point, Bob has done as expected, but not beyond. So, the questions is whether another coach would have done something from a personal selection, formation(s), or tactics to change the perception on the direction of the team. From my perspective, I don't think the personal selection would have been much different with a different coach.

    Formation? Maybe. However, our defense is not great at the moment. So, I think any coach would probably try to cover for it.

    Tactics? Maybe. More of a possession game? Attack up the middle? Don't know...

    I disagree with you that not having the enough players is defeatist, just realistic. As I stated when Arena was let go, I don't think the current coach matters much. I think the focus should be on player development through professional teams (MLS Development Teams) and having a technical director who can manage the youth development in the US.

    In the end, I would still like to see someone else other than Bob. Nice guy. Respect him a lot. Just can't take us to the next level.
     
  3. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    I think you have a good point. The thing is that I have seen other teams do a lot more with a lot less. Not only other countries but in reality other US national teams as well.

    The defense is not really one fo those things that I am too worried about though it seems that Boca will need to be replaced soon. The thing that worries me the most about our teams is the lack of a 3 man game up front. Or to be more specific some sort of connection between our strikers and midfielders.

    For the longest time I believed Landon to be the answer to that problem, but as he stands right now I dont think I would even have him start another game until he performs at the club level. He just looks like a man who has packed it in and is confortable living in mediocrity.
     
  4. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    Unfortunalty I agree, as I said in another post, as long as Bob Bradley is coaching who is not doing a bad job don't get me wrong but he just will never bring us to that elite level, and I disagree I think we do have the players to be at least top 15 in the world maybe even 10, I highly doubt the USSF has the balls to get rid of him with the success he is having though. Now don't get me wrong he is a great guy and doing a competent job but as others have said will never take us to that next level.
     
  5. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody is taking us to the next level by standing on the sidelines.

    Some of the people who may take us to the next level or near it were on the pitch.

    Sadly,they were playing with Drew Moor and Ramiro Corrales.

    If it hadn't been them it would've been Heath Pearce,Frankie Hejduk,or Frank Simek.

    Not as much of an upgrade as we like to think sometimes.

    The beef as usual is better in Argentina,served with Brazil nuts and pesto,and beer and Bordeaux on the side.
     
  6. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    I disagree at the highest of levels coaching makes the world of difference in any sport including soccer.
     
  7. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    It is this kind of attitude that gives us coaches like Bob Bradley and players like Landon Donovan.
     
  8. The Blind Pig

    The Blind Pig Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Section 8
    it's a friendly

    there was no practice time

    it's show up and go 90

    again, it's a friendly
     
  9. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry but that's what we have. World Class players don't just appear not matter who's the coach.
     
  10. Heathens '87

    Heathens '87 Member

    United States
    Mar 4, 2004
    Michigan
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The reality is that World Cup qualifying hasn't even begun, so a coach deserves the opportunity to do what he believes he needs to in order to prepare. Once hired, Bradley was asked to lead a squad to a Gold Cup so we could advance to the Confederations Cup in 2009. Since then, it's been an extended tryout as Bob tries to figure out who can be helpful during qualifying, who can't, and what roles players might fit.

    I'm not saying Bradley is the answer as I wasn't in favor of his hiring in the first place, but he's done the job asked to date, and other than arm-chair quarterbacks like us on Big Soccer, he's going to have to show that he's prepared a team for qualifying come this summer.

    You may be right, but there really isn't anything near a body of evidence to suggest what you're saying is clearly true. Let's keep in mind that the German fans wanted Klinsmann's head on a platter leading into their qualifying campaign only to end up in the WC semi-finals and a country begging the coach to return.

    Bob's the coach and deserves his shot. I would say that a stumble or two in the CONCACAF stage 2 or the semi-finals and the calls for a replacement will be justified. Until then, as fans, we need to hope that he sees the wrong answers just as much as he's seeing the right ones.

    For example, it's perfectly OK to find out someone isn't capable at left-back right now. Roll out such a line-up in a home qualifier against a Guatemala which leads to a draw and it's not. More than winning a friendly, you hope to learn. That mentality stops later in 2008. We'll see what Bob has learned, and for the sake of our team, I hope it's a lot..........
     
  11. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    Well yes they are all going to be friendlies until we have to compete on a qualifier or a tournament. But there is purpose to these games. You need to show some sort of progression and ability. Things like counter attacks, attacking a full on press defence, being able to open up the field and control pocession.

    None these basics were on display yesterday. This team lacks leadership and direction.
     
  12. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    You presume that qualifying is the problem or that Concacaf competition will be a true measurement of his abilities as a coach. I dont.

    He is expected to qualify for the World Cup and he is expected to dominate Concacaf competition. Those two things alone proof nothing, we did the same with Arena and so those two benchmarks are the least he can do.

    I am looking at the performance in the field. The decisions that are made with the personel that is available. Is Landon performing, is he playing the right people in the right positions in order to have the best possible team out there.
     
  13. Heathens '87

    Heathens '87 Member

    United States
    Mar 4, 2004
    Michigan
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not all useful answers are in the affirmative. It's just as useful to find out now that Corrales isn't a capable left-back at this level, that Drew Moor is far from ready, that a Bradley-Clark combination in the midfield isn't capable of dictating and controlling the pace and flow of a game against an opponent of this quality, etc.......

    .....as it is to find out that Altidore is ready for USMNT duty, that Howard is developing into a vocal leader, that the Gooch-Boca pairing is capable of playing against some speed, that Feilhaber showed that his game dramatically improved our play in the midfield, etc.

    We learned a lot last night.....more bad than good in my opinion, but that's OK in February when a meaningful game is still 4+ months away.
     
  14. Heathens '87

    Heathens '87 Member

    United States
    Mar 4, 2004
    Michigan
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a process and you measure that on the field, not on message boards. For example, if it takes Bob playing someone out of position in a friendly and that game teaches him something about that player's capabilities that will be of use later in qualifying or in South Africa, that's perfectly OK at this point in the cycle.

    I'm not seeing any grand step forward from Arena myself, but it's February 2008. Like I said, since the Gold Cup, it's been a learning exercise. You don't look to fail someone until they start turning in some papers. That starts in June. We'll see..........
     
  15. Yankee_Devil

    Yankee_Devil Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    San Diego, CA
    Ok, I think that I am more satisfied with your answer than any other. It makes sence. However, the point remains if he does not have a solid starting 11 by the time true competition rolls around, I believe he may never have one.

    I disagree with your assesment of Boca though. I think he is on his way out of the starting 11.
     
  16. Heathens '87

    Heathens '87 Member

    United States
    Mar 4, 2004
    Michigan
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After last night, I think the the two-deep got a lot clearer as......

    ...I saw a squad that needs Cherundolo on the right with the quality of Simek and Hejduk as back-ups. Throw Spector into that mix as an all-pupose back.

    ...I saw a squad that needs to invest in developing both Pearce and Bornstein in a spirited battle for the left-back slot.

    ...I saw a squad that needs a holding midfielder as we're a far better team when someone plays that role like a Reyna or JOB. Right now, that player looks to be Feilhaber, who we need to help develop. If not Benny, perhaps Landon needs to play that field general role.

    ...I saw a squad that's better when we have a true striker (Altidore) and can push attacking midfielders (Dempsey, Donovan) back into their proper roles.

    ...I saw a squad where players from the 4-deep (Moor, Corrales) got brutally exposed by some of the best talent in CONCACAF. They're not ready.


    Darn near 99.99% of Big Soccer saw the same thing. No big mystery as to what needed to be learned from last night. Bob's not a stupid man. Let's give him the chance to show that he's capable of evaluating performance and basing his decisions going forward on what he's seen in games.........
     
  17. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    In terms of tactical preferences, Bradley and Arena were always fairly similar styles of coach. That's no surprise. USSF, in a period of uncertainty after they felt certain of hiring Klinnsmann (I still feel it would've been a good move, but I'm not inside that inner circle), they opted for familiarity to move them past that blunder. And it's mostly worked out fairly well. What were the knocks on Arena, aside from his tactical system? Arrogance. Petulance. Commitment to tenured players that he trusted over youth or a wider net of talent. Well, bring in Bradley problem solved. Want a wider net? Hell, look at all the players, particularly the youth, in both Europe and MLS that got a Bradley call-up. As to the arrogance and petulance, well so far, in both victory and defeat Bradley has come across from every angle as nothing if not humble, steady, and level-headed. The USSF players (who very often are from the USSF youth system) seem happy to play for him. He has shown little knack for being a sophisticated soccer genius, but neither has he seemed the simplistic youth coach dumbs#$# that people here seem to want to paint him as, he's a professional that knows the game, culture, players and system (as limiting as we might feel the USSF system might be to one degree or another). And practically every young player that we've all begged to see, he's put out there. He's looking at these guys, he's not in some ivory tower.

    Finally, who will you guys trust our national team program to? Klinsmann reportedly wouldn't do it because he couldn't have control over the whole program, youth and all. And of all the quality candidates, he was the one who had real reasons to really WANT to coach in America (American wife, home in California, the chance to show Europe that his revitalization of Germany was not a fluke with a team with a respectable talent base that nobody really respects as high as it could go...) What other soccer genius of Europe or South America would look at this job with envy as opposed to a necessary temporary exile at best, and would coach half-heartedly? With the bureaucracy of the USSF that Klinsmann refused to coach under, when by most accounts he really honestly wanted the job otherwise?

    I honestly don't believe that Cappello really wanted this job. Sure, he talked to some USSF people, but we were never his first choice. And if he would've settled for us, would he really have been happy with coaching Team America? I doubt it.

    Bradley shows every indication of being very serious about this job.

    My honest opinion? Win, lose or draw, Bob gets ONE full, complete cycle to make his mark. After the World Cup, we get another coach, because at that point, there's bound to be some fortunate Klinsmann-like situation out there at that point somewhere. And next time, we give them whatever they want that's within the realm of reason.
     

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