So what's it like down here?

As to the question posed in the thread title - either scary or a breeze depending on the attitude of your players. West Ham should be favourites next season, but any premiership side coming down who lack the bottle for a scrap will feel like they've been fed to the wolves (not "The Wolves"). If they go to somewhere like Gillingham on a tuesday night and think "tiny little ground, they must be rubbish. this is going to be easy" then it could be a shock to the system. It's a very tight division, much much tighter than the premiership, so if you get on a roll (either good or bad) the results tend to continue.

 

What Richard said.
Anybody care to describe the <gulp> Second Division for me?
I've only barely heard of most of the current residents.
What are some of the teams' reputations/histories?

b.

 

Second division? Well pretty much everything I said about the drop into the first applies to the second. the main difference is there are a lot less teams with pace in Division 2. If you have players who can break at speed you'll do well. Jermain Defoe, in his year loan at Bournemouth, made the difference between them being play-off contenders and being relegated. Teams tend to play in spells. If you're playing a team and they're playing well, if you can hold out for 20 minutes or so then you'll be fine as they'll run out of steam. But really, as the likes of Barnsley and Huddersfield have found this year, Division 2 is no respector of history or tradition. Every point really has to be earned. If, a few weeks into the season, your manager has started moaning about teams raising their game because they're playing sheffield wednesday, they be prepared for a long hard season.
One problem Wednesday will have is that every team will love going to Hillsborough as although most Div 2 grounds are a lot tidier than in the past, they aren't very big. It was bad enough at the Madejski where teams would bring about double their usual away support (8 teams brought 2500+ in Div 2 last season, compared to only 7 in Div 1 this season) and I'm sure away to you lot will be an even bigger day out.
Saying that though, if you get on a roll and get some atmosphere going at home, a fair number of teams will bottle it, not being used to large crowds.

As for the clubs, ignoring those who are journeyman clubs who've spent most of their years knocking about in Div 2...

Barnsley - for many years a typical Div 1 team, occasionally threatening to make the push for top flight, before surprising everyone by doing so a few years ago. Overstretched themselves in their 1 year of top flight football and crashed into Div 2. All the women in the town are ugly, according to one of their overseas signings.

Blackpool - a big, or at least successful club in the 1950s. Possessed a stadium that looked older than the dead sea scrolls, half of which has now been rebuilt. Rumours that the away terrace is a wattle and daub construction are unfounded. A nice club though. Play in orange and are almost impossible to dislike.

Bristol City. One of the bigger clubs in the division. Should really have got promoted by now after a few years of trying. Possibly the quickest team in the division. One of only a hanful of clubs who have dropped from the top division to the bottom in consecutive seasons. (Wolves, Northampton and Carlisle being the others).

Bury. Another friendly club. Have floodlight pylons so short the bulbs could probably be changed by a tall person in platform shoes. Have a nice habit of drawing Man Utd away in the cup each time they get hard up.

Cardiff. Perhaps not the sleeping giant the fans like to call the club, but a sleeping tall bloke all the same. Not a pleasant place to visit.

Plymouth. Another club who should be bigger than they are. Second biggest city in England to have never had a top division club (Hull is the biggest). Only team in England who play in green.

Port Vale. Ugly place.

Rushden & Diamonds. 11 years ago Rushden Town and Irthlingborough Diamonds were two close clubs who'd bobbled about in the semi-pro game achieving nothing of note. Max Griggs, owner of the nearby Dr Marten boots factory, merged the two and they've gone from the equivalent of Div 6 or 7 to Div 3 in that time, with crowds rising from about 100 to around 5000.

Swindon. the only team to have been promoted twice and relegated in the same season. Won promotion to the premier via the play-offs, then were relegated for financial irregularities to Div 2, which was reduced to relegation to Div 1 on appeal. The won the play-off the following year too and had one year in the top division. Entertained a lot of people in their one year in the top division too - mainly opposition fans as they conceded a lovely round 100 goals. The ground is 100 yards from the country's most stupid roundabout. Type "magic roundabout" and Swindon into a search engine and you'll see what I mean.

Wycombe. Another ex-non-league team. Used to play at a ground which sloped to much that one side of the pitch was 8 feet higher than the other. Moved to adams park at the start of the 90s where Celtic's current boss, Martin O'Neil, cut his managerial teeth leading them into the football league. After being a 'big' non-league club for many years are perhaps in danger of losing fans and moving backwards, as fans adjust from being a big fish in a small pond to being an average fish in an average pond.

 

OK Div 1

Bradford City - A typical lower division club until relatively recently. Promotion to the premier league created a surge of optimism in the club which wasn't matched by the bailiffs who put the club into administration. The result of which was the handy ability to default payment on the two large new stands built at the ground. Have to struggle for support against not only Leeds a few miles away, but perhaps more tellingly, with Barnstoneworth United whose home ground is at Salts FC, Saltaire, a few miles north. Only the fact that Bradford players all normally have shorts give them the edge.

Burnley. Very traditional older club. Founder members of the football league in 1888. A small town team with good support. Their record crowd of 54,775 works out at about 75% of the population of the town. Were heading for lower division obscurity in the 80s and were one match from dropping out of the football league altogether. In a season where crowds had slumped below 2000 on 5 occasions and were averaging under 2500, they pulled in nearly 16,000 to see them win their last game to stay in the league.

Coventry - "City avoid relegation with last day victory" was a reccurring headline for 30 years as coventry battled the odds to stay in the top division year after year. With crowds nothing special by Div 1 standards, are constantly claiming to be about to build a huge new arena stadium. The opening date is pencilled in as being the same day that Tim Henman wins a wimbledon semi-final.

Crewe Alexandra - for years perennial strugglers in Div 4 but now definitely the cutest club in the league. Play lovely football. Their manager Dario Gradi has been there so long he can remember picking up tips from watching Swansea on match of the day. Their ground, of which 70% of the seats are in one 7000 seat stand, is 100 yards from Crewe railway station, one of the main junctions of Britain's rail network and anorak capital of ther world. The accumulated static electricity from the man-made fibres worn by the trainspotters on the platforms generates enough power to light and heat the tea bar in the family stand.

Crystal Palace. Will finish 12th, forever.

Derby - Classic cautionary tale. Thought they were far too good Div 1 and were singing about winning the championship on the opening day of the season. Finished 18th , losing over half of their matches. Should do better next season, but play-off contenders at best.

Ipswich - similar attitude to Derby. Claimed they had a target of 100 points and 100 goals. Missed their targets by a mere 30 points and 20 goals, and that after a late improvement after sacking their manager. Another club who've conveniently used administration as a way of avoiding paying for two expensive new stands. A successful team in the late 70s/early 80s, their fans haven't yet adjusted to the fact that the glory days are over and join a group of about 35 clubs who believe their rightful place is in the premier league. Should do well though, probably second favourites behind West Ham.

Millwall - based in one the roughest parts of London have really suffered with a hooligan element at the club. Recent measures, bringing in a strict membership scheme has vastly reduced trouble but also vastly reduced crowds. Lack of cash might seem them struggle if they have to offload players, but as many of their fans would possibly be quite happy to see them back in Division 2 as a small club that nobody likes (according to Danny Baker anyway) it might not be a bad thing.

Norwich City. Good footballing side. Should have made the play-offs. Decent support too, selling out most of their home games, and as a result plan to build a new bigger stand, and further more intend to do it without going down the admistration freebie route taken by Ipswich, Bradford, Leicester etc. What effect the cost will have on team building remains to be seen.

Nottingham Forest. Twice winners of the European Cup. Have possibly more claim than most to say they are a genuine premier league club. Should be strong again next season. Their main problem could be fans expecting too much.

Preston - pretty much ditto Burnley. Won the first two league championships, but "The Invincibles" as they were known, were one of many old clubs who slumped when the maximum wage was abolished and they haven't been in the top division for over 50 years.

QPR (if promoted). A west London club who possess enough style & panache to play in blue & white hoops. Their ground in just 200 yards from the BBC and many of the Month Python street scenes were filmed in the streets adjacent to the ground. Anyone wishing to tackle the north face of the Uxbridge Road can do so just 100 yards behind the Ellerslie Road stand. The curiously named "Batman Close" is also just round the corner.
Although they are among the "our rightful place is the premier league" set, their fans seem a decent bunch and support hasn't dropped that much since dropping to Division 2. Should do OK if promoted.

Reading. Formed in 1871, or possibly 1872, nobody is really sure, they can rightfully claim to have been a bigger club than the likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc for many years, or at least until those clubs formed. For 100 years they turned mediocrity into an art form before celebrating their centenary year by being relegated to division 4 for the first time ever, losing a final match of the season 2-1, with the winner being an own goal by Reading's player of the year. 10 years of Div 4 stagnation followed, punctuated briefy with a short-lived promotion, before rising back to Div 3, setting football league of going 1103 minutes without conceding a goal (the run was ended by an own goal). Next in the news in 1983 the the mad Czech bastard Robert Maxwell, owner of the daily mirror and local rivals Oxford United announced he would merge the two clubs as the thames valley royals. Knowing how the fat crook operated, I think he was confusing the word 'merger' with the phrase 'asset strip'. The takeover bid was beaten, and Reading celebrated in customary style, going back down to Div 4 on the last day of the season. After immediate promotion Reading set a new football league record by winning the first 13 games in a row at the start of the 85-86 season. The record clincher, a 2-0 win at newport county was probably the first time in history that The Sun picked a Div 3 match as its "match of the day". Sadly the TV highlights show of the same name didn't show the match as all football was blacked out during this period as TV rights negotiations had broken down.
Two years later Reading won the Simod Cup (a cup for teams in the top two divisions) at Wembley in front of 45,000+ of Reading's fans (+15,000 from Luton) and celebrated this achievement with another relegation, meaning they were barred from defending the trophy the following year.
In 1995 some more impeccable timing saw Reading finish 2nd in (the now renamed) division 1, the only time since automatic promoton began in the 1890s that finishing second didn't merit automatic promotion. At 2-0 up in the final Reading were awarded a penalty after Jason "girly shampoo advert tart" McAteer brings down a Reading player who looked likely to score. McAteer, who'd already been booked, was let off a second booking. The penalty was missed and it was his through ball that set up Bolton's 87th minute equaliser.
Despite once somehow holding 33,000, Reading's Elm Park ground now only held 15,000 with only 2000 seats and needed replacing. So Reading's chairman, using a chunk of his own cash, built the 24,200 seat Madejski stadium to enable the club to advance. A stadium fit for the premiership was the boast. It opened in summer 1998 and Reading celebrated this latest achievement by being relegated to Division 2.
Never having had a glorious past Reading have few (well none to be exact) famous old great players. The result of which is that Reading's most legendary player is a guy named Robin Friday. A player of truly exceptionally talent, who no top division manger would take a risk on, mainly because he was a drug-taking piss-head. Was barred from the Boars' head, one of Reading's roughest pubs, 8 times, once for dancing naked on the bar. Had his bedroom walls painted black so it wouldn't be so scary when he was on an acid trip. Once scored a goal so sublime that world cup referee clive thomas applauded and asked him why he wasn't playing in the top division. Possibly the only player to have played league football after having a scaffolding pole peirce his rectum in a building site accident.
This season saw Reading make the play-offs comfortably to much scracthing of heads amongst pundits unable to fathom how a team who have spend most of their time in the lower divisions are capable of finishing higher than a team who have won the European cup twice. Next year will be harder, but with the only one decent player (cureton) likely to leave, finishing below halfway would be a disappointment.

Rotherham - small, likeable but determined northern club. The sort of club who'll take great pleasure in knocking the stuffing out of "London nancy boys" if the likes of West Ham aren't up for it at millmoor.

Stoke. Really should do better. Have probably suffered from moving from a decent stadium which felt in the heart of the community to one which feels like it's in the middle of nowhere near a tyre factory. When things are going well the fans sing the Tom jones hit "Delilah", loudly.

Sunderland. Potentially a very big club. Despite proving themselves to be pathetic in the premier this season, and despite the propect of the team being further weakened by the departure of their better players, the "big time" mentality of their fans will see them expect to "probably not lose a game all season". Should do OK, but absolute prime candidates for being next year's Derby.

Walsall. another small, well-run and likeable club. Many a team will go to the Bescot and think they are in for an easy match, and lose.

Watford. will battle Crystal Palace for that 12th spot. Used to be known as "the Family club" and every single set of away fans to visit vicarage road will sing "watford (clap clap clap)" in a high-pitched voice to mimic their supposed typical fan.

WBA. Should be play-off contenders unless their players now think they are too good for division 1 after a year away.

West Ham. Should win the title, but then again shouldn't really have gone down. The fact that an apparently talented team did drop must be the most worrying thing for them. Do they have the commitment?

Wigan. Could well be the surprise package of 2003-4. Coasted to the Div 2 title. Only a lack of finance could hold them back as their support is poor, despite moving to a new 25000 seat stadium. They can afford to give one whole side of 8100 seats to away fans. Being honest they could have just used the one stand for home fans instead.

Wimbledon/Milton Keynes. Play-off dark horses next season. How they'll adapt to their new home in Milton Keynes remains to be seen, as will how many fans they get. Will probably be the least popular club in the division. Two clubs (Spurs & Charlton) have already cancelled friendlies against them after fans' protests.

Wolves. The comic tragedy of the football league. Once a powerful club, the debts incurred after building a new stand sent them crashing from Div 1 to Div 4 in consecutive seasons. Crowds slumped to an average of 4000 and two sides of Molineux were condemned by safety inpectors. After suprisingly losing the Div 4 play-off final to Aldershot they escaped Div 4 in 1988 and 65,000 of their fans helped set what will almost certainly be a record crowd between to Div 4 (now Div 3) teams when they beat Burnley 2-0 in front of 81000 at wembley in the sherpa van trophy final (a cup for teams in the bottom 2 divisions). They went straight up again the following year. Despite a rebuild of the stadium and a budget that would have pentagon military officials casting envious glances, they've yet to make the leap into top flight. Perhaps the most exasperated of the "our rightful place is the premier league" club, their 19 year wait may be at an end if they overcome Sheff Utd in the final on the 26th.

 

That was a great read, Richard.

BTW, a story on Friday was in an issue of 442 not to far back. Quite a character.

 

Wattle and daub?!? Brilliant! ROTFL!

Thanks, Richard. Great information!

 

For completeness' sake, a Div 3 guide. Apologies to clubs I've not bothered to cover.

Boston - recent addition to the league ranks in an area as starved of league clubs as it is flat. A 4 point deduction for financial irregularities kept them in the relegation scrap for much of the season. Have a really good tight lower division ground and deserve to succeed, but will do well to get in the top half. Their York Street ground is, contrary to popular belief amongst American fans, the only English pro ground to have "street" in its name.

Bournemouth (unless promoted). Rescued from bankruptcy and became the country's first community owned football club. Rebuilt 3/4 of their ground after turning the pitch 90 degrees to make more room, and gave it the catchy title of "The Fitness First Community Stadium". An embarrassing mud bank behind one goal highlights the stage at which the money ran out.

Bristol Rovers. Shouldn't really be in this division. A return to Bristol after a 12 year exile in Bath was meant to herald a re-birth for the club, rather than relegation to Div 3 for the first time ever. They were kicked out of their old ground by the greyhound company who owned it. The ground was then sold and an Ikea superstore built on the site. Curiously one floodlight pylon is still there, overlooking the car park.

Bury - see above, I forgot which division they are in.

Cambridge. A curious club who often achieve either success or failure without previously threatening to do either. A ground best described as quirky, with one third of the home end being taken up by the adjacent corona bottled drink depot. Three of the floodlight pylons point the wrong way and the park behind the away end allows you the chance to contemplate defeat on the long walk to the coach park in the (inevitable) rain whilst being hassled by the horses which loiter menacingly under the footbridge. Fans used to chant "moose!" at every opposition goalkick, for reasons that are perhaps better unknown.

Carlisle. About as far north you can get before entering Scotland. A spell under the chairmanship of Michael Knighton, famed for once buying Man Utd (until it was found he didn't have enough money to actually buy the club) and also famous for being (mis)quoted as saying he was in regular contact with aliens from outer space, produced a wave of enthusiasm and support, but no success at all. Only avoided going out of the league when an on-loan goalkeeper scored a last-minute winner in the final match of the season a couple of years ago.

Cheltenham Town. Visitors to "The 'Nam" as residents of Cheltenham often call their leafy town, will find a pleasant small club, recently out of non-league. The away terrace has a roof so small you expect a bus to turn up at any minute, although waiting ages and then two turning up at once is more likely. Probably deserved relegation last season, if only for the town's dreadful one-way system.

Darlington. One of the clubs they don't mention when they talk about the North East being a hotbed of football. With average gates well under 4000, the decision to move to a new 25,000 seat stadium next season shows ambition the ex-safe-cracker chairman had only previously shown with a blow-torch and crowbar in small banks up and down the country.

Doncaster Rovers - promoted back to the league for next season after a few years away. Almost ceased to exist after an asset-stripping chairman, having done the same to now defunct Bridlington Town, tried to run down the club to such an extent that he'd sell the ground and keep the money himself. When this failed he devised a plan to burn down the main stand and claim the insurance money. Having been caught he was invited to accept some free food & accommodation "at her majesty's pleasure" as a penance. Removed from chairmanship of the club, the Doncaster Rovers PA announcer reacted to the news of the ex-chairman's imprisonment by dedicating a song to "absent friends" - Firestarter by the Prodigy.

Huddersfield Town. Winners of the unofficial 2003 WTF? award for the club whose dreams turned to crap in the most dramatic way. The building of the McAlpine Stadium, Building of the Year in 1995, was meant to herald a return to good fortune for a club who won the league title three years in a row in the 1930s, in days when the pre-match warm up consisted of taking in a good woodbine. Now badly in debt and will be happy to even kick off in 2003-4. Don't expect miracles.

Hull City. Moved into a 25,000 seat stadium (one of 3 in div 3 next season) and will get 15,000 a week. Everything looks rosy for them, except that the team aren't much good. Nicknamed "The Tigers", they once played in a kit which incorporated a 'realistic' tiger stripe design, which meant that it was the only kit which after use, could then have a second life as a tart's pillowcase.

Kidderminster Harriers. Another recent promotee from non-league. Probably just enjoying being in the league for the time being.

Leyton Orient. every Londoner's second team, apparently, mainly because they never seem to be a threat. Quirky fans, possibly a results of being sandwiched between the natural catchment area of Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham, who all take it very seriously. Famously bad away from home, but Brisbane Road is always a joy to visit.

Macclesfield Town. Possibly the smallest league club. Rarely struggled since joined the league in 97 and indeed got promoted in their first season, meaning for that season at least, their local derby, rather than being against Altrincham in the conference, was against Manchester City.

Northampton. Used to have the worst ground in the league, shared with Northampton county cricket club, but moved to the small, but at least 4-sided sixfields in 95. (The cricket pitch side and a bowling green meant the county ground only had 2 1/2 stands, and one of them was condemned for safety reasons). Only English team to play in maroon.

Oxford Utd. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was Oxford's new Kassam stadium. It took 5 years, much of which spent with the building site being the embodiment of inactivity. In that time Oxford dropped from Div 1 to Div 3, and it's still only got 3 sides. Fans bored of the action on the pitch can make there way to the Blackbird Leys estate behind the north stand and watch local 'yoofs' race stolen cars around the nationally famous council estate. Should do better than Div 3, but probably not that much. Away fans will be pleased that the away stand hasn't seen the re-erection of the famous cuckoo lane end fence, which was so high that commercial aircraft were forced to detour around the Oxford area.

Rochdale. Div 3's equivalent of groundhog day. Rochdale will start well, then fade away, just missing out on the play-offs. Since joining the league in 1921 they've spent all but 6 years in the bottom division, but did make the league cup final in 1962.

Swansea. Nearly became the first team to have played in the top division to be relegated from the league this year. Messy in terms of ground, finances, and playing ability. The Vetch is so hemmed in by houses that several of them have bedroom windows which overlook the pitch.

Torquay. Only league town which has palm trees growing in it and the only league club to be owned by a failed ventriloquist. For years kept their ground capacity as 4999 so as to avoid the 5000 cut-off limit for ground safety restrictions.

York. Classic lower division club, seemingly always "hours" from going bust, but thankfully never do.

Yeovil. Promoted to the league for next season. Always regarded as the 'biggest' non-league club, they knocked more league clubs out of the FA Cup than any other non-league club, mostly in the clinging Somerset mud of the old ground. They might no longer have their notoriously sloping pitch at the old "Huish" ground, but the new Huish, and the good support it attracts, should see Yeovil getting to Div 2 at least in the not too distant future. Become the league's second green-shirted team.

 

As a Pompey fan, I would like to know what's it like in the EPL.... panicfc.

 

Because most of us haven't heard that Leicester have moved from Filbert Street?

(Yes, yes, I know. Most Americans haven't heard of Filbert Street and only a few more have heard of Leicester...)

 

What about Filbert Street and Leicester?