Post-match: So what is next for the Democratic Party? (Post 2024)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by ceezmad, Nov 6, 2024.

?

Where does the party go after this?

  1. Does the party go right and try to find a new Bill Clinton

    71.4%
  2. Does the party go left to the Bernie Sanders wing

    28.6%
  1. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    I think you are right about the dispersive effect of so many "core" issues

    While the Trump stuff can be interpreted as pro blue-collar, though, it seems to me it's a lot of knee-jerk sugar-rush with a negative long-term effect (esp. since his energy independence is about as green as dead grass). Pulling in all those horns makes you the weird old guy on the street. Which I get is a goal of his/theirs, but it's awfully short-sighted. And it's the lower rungs of the economy that get hurt most, earliest, when things go south.

    Curious others' thoughts, I am not an economist.
     
  2. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    One of the three major themes in the Hitler-loving felon's outreach was anti-trans hate-mongering. This directly appealed to certain segments of society that broke heavy for him.
     
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  3. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    #78 Quakes05, Nov 7, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2024
    yep, the economy (no amount of data was going to effectively counter “but the price of eggs!”), the border (Biden and Harris blew it on this one, if they had moved quickly to stem the flow, it would’ve been closer), and anti trans fear and hate (Megan Kelly articulated it clearly on Maher, right before the election…

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...children-transition-surgeries-Bill-Maher.html)

    All three had mass appeal. I’d add that in general pronouns and other aspects of “woke” culture are not playing well out there.
     
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  4. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    A common political topic in a multi-cultural society is weighing the pain points, allegiances and enmities of multiple groups with divergent view points. Multi-cultural societies are never kumbaya and the alliances can be just about anything. Latinos in particular are well versed with political breaks and unsavory alliances. In Bolivia there was a period of time where the leftist party aligned with the ex-Dictator that imprisoned them against the centrist party and won the elections that year.
     
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  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think politicians will need to distinguish between what they need to be flexible on to attract more voters and what are things on which you cannot compromise. Obviously anti-trans hate mongerers are not the constituency that you want to try to compromise with.

    To give an example of what I'm talking about, I think one of the things that this election showed was that voters feel we need more law and order. Even in the most liberal parts of California, voters sent this message.

    So, on this issue you can be flexible in looking for ways to be tougher so that for example common thieves get the punishment they deserve, but you cannot compromise in accepting policies that will be unfair to minorities. If a voter was turned off by the Democratic candidate because they feel thieves are not getting punished enough, then that is something you look at with an open mind, if you want to win elections, but if somebody was turned off because blacks/gays/immigrants are not getting punished enough, that is not a voter you want to reach out to.
     
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Democrats just doing the same will only work if Trump fvckd up the economy with his tariffs.

    But it will not be people voting for Democrats, it will be people voting against Trump (Vance).


    It is obvious that Democrats are alliterating large segments of the population, can the democrats find out why with out resorting to just blaming Republicans.
     
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  7. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    I agree with you in theory, in practice it is a different matter.

    Doing the law & order thing isn't going to work because ultimately, that is not the real issue, but is instead mostly a fear-based distraction.

    They use fear-mongering to get votes. Inflation is basically back to where it was in the old days, yet that fear-based issue was front and center. How do you compromise on that when it isn't happening? From what I understand two prisoners have received trans-care, two, yet this was constantly raised as an issue. Zero children have gone to school as boys and came back as girls, but this was constantly raised as an issue. How do you compromise on things that aren't based in reality?

    On the law & order, is that really an issue (disproportionate to when Republicans are in control) or is it used to cause fear?

    If they are not using reality-based issues, but are exploiting emotional situations not based in actual current reality, how do you compromise with it? If it's not really the issue, they will simply change the topic to something more emotional.
     
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  8. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Maybe over this next cycle the DNC can sack up and goad the media into knocking off the sanewashing and false equivalency that normalizes the shit-gibbon's stream of sewage.

    A guy can hope.
     
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  9. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    What we are dealing with is much deeper - we are dealing with a significant cultural worldview shift and the reaction to that. Our understanding of how nature and society works has had a profound shift in the last 200 years. A similar shift happened in classical Greece with a similar struggle in society. The scientific revolution, and especially Darwin's theory of natural selection, has caused a dramatic earthquake, if you will, which threatens a large segment of society because of their deeply held religious beliefs.

    Many of the underlying issues that separate the two parties ultimately boil down to that: LGBT+ rights, black civil rights, climate change, education, etc are all directly tied to that worldview shift. The anti-intellectualism (expressed with all the "elite" talk) of the conservative movement illustrates it. There is a reason why the education divide has been an important determiner for which party people support. Those on the left tend to accept the new cultural worldview. Those on the right tend to accept the traditional pre-scientific worldview (generally speaking).
     
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  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But we have to recognize that it is a real issue. In California people who voted for "law and order" in many cases want precisely that.

    For example, there is the case of Manuel, who had a food cart in front of the Santa Clara County jail. I walked by him every day on my way to the courthouse, so I often talked to him. In recent years he was complaining that homeless people were harassing him, trying to steal his food, and the police was standing nearby (there's always police on that block) and doing nothing. He asked them to do something and they told him that according to the law they could do nothing. One day he said he tried to fight back and the police threatened to arrest him.

    About a year ago, his cart wasn't there anymore. I don't know what happened to him. I don't know if Manuel votes, or even if he is documented, but when I heard how Latinos voted, I thought of him.
    Sometimes the problems are not just fear-mongering. Sometimes leadership is needed, and by stepping up and finding solutions, candidates and political parties will be able to get more votes.
     
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  11. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    In which case the real problem was homelessness - which is a serious problem out West. The law & order aspect was more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.
     
  12. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Homelessness, additions, theft, housing shortages and high cost of housing, law and order...all those issues are related. Lots of money has been thrown at the problem, and at ideas that haven't worked.

    The people are craving for leadership that will look with an open mind for new solutions, and therein lies the opportunity for a political party to make inroads without compromising on the things on which we cannot compromise.
     
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  13. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    To a point I agree with you. But how do you listen to Law and order coming from a convicted felon.
    “Oh, it’s just Trump being Trump!”
     
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  14. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That's the challenge. Trump says he's going to solve everything, and he gives very little imput on the how, and somehow he has an uncanny ability (which I personally don't understand) to get many people to believe him. I don't have the answer to that. All I can say is that if we actually try to solve the problems, it just might steal some of his thunder.

    Right now it looks like at the federal level he has things locked up, unfortunately, but now the problems will be on him, he can't just say that he will fix crime/homelessness/health care/foreign wars, whatever, he'll have to do it. And I don't think he will.

    My hope is that if in places where the Democrats still have power, like here in California, they start showing us that they are listening and becoming wiser and start genuinely looking for new solutions to the real problems that exist, maybe that's were you start. Maybe enough voters will notice.
     
  15. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    You're overthinking this. There is no compromise possible. If they make up a problem (like inflation or crime) and you compromise with them on a "solution", they'll just make up another problem.
     
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  16. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Well we have 4 years to find out. To find out if we still have a vote that is.
     
  17. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    To quote a Venezuelan latina who is a close friend of the family. "I know Venezuelans and I absolutely believe the story of the gang taking over the building in Colorado." How do you argue with a Venezuelan about Venezuelans? Of course, my wife is 100% behind her. I am currently very much in the dog house because I (again) refused to vote for Trump.
     
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  18. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It's over, period. The Christians have won.
     
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  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of what Democrats need to figure out is how to use friendly media influencers


    Part of Trumps success is that he is willing to take gambles, it helps him that he can spin out of anything even if he fvcks up

    Here is an article of the raise of social media influencers and how Trump was able to use them better than Harris.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/politics-news/trump-wins-influencer-election-1236055439/

    Here are some popular male influencers talking about it, Trump went to this show, Harris didn't.

     
  20. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, it's true that there are Venezuelan gangs and they are really tough, and yet Trump is still full of shit about immigrants in general. The two are not mutually exclusive. You don't stop the gangs by deporting working families.
     
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  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To govern you need to win voters, so it means selling out something to gain something else, European left wing parties are selling out immigration
     
  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I think you’re right. They’ve built a base that, like Pavlov’s dogs, will react with appropriate fright whenever their feed tells them to.
     
  23. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well yeah. Do you think Trump is going to push the judges to change term limits and corrupt the election process so he can stay in power? Or do you think maybe he'll use the military to keep him in charge? And if so, do you think they will follow his orders?

    My hope is that either he is all talk and will not push (he is after all a corrupt lazy old man and he might just settle for enriching himself and getting immunity), or that if he pushes far enough the judges and/or military leaders will stand up to him.

    I'm not saying our worst fears can't happen, but I also think that for now we should plan as if there is still a chance to lawfully win the next election, and figure out how. Then, if other events overtake us, we'll have to take it from there.

    I've already been there, and all I can say is at that point you can try to do what you can from your own small sphere of influence, or else you can flee (as I eventually did as a young man, and looking back I don't regret what I did).
     
  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know a lot of people including here believe this will happen, I am not one of them. Maybe I am naive and will be proven wrong. What I do know is that if he wants to make that case for staying more than this term, a lot of of his followers will rationalize it and buy the idea. Too many believe the idea that things in Gov. are so broken that we need an authoritarian figure in the executive with expanded powers to fix it.

    I've heard a reference that this is not unprecedented as people gave FDR "authoritarian" type power to fix the problems of the Great Depression. I am not a history buff so I don't know if that reference is true. I've put it on my plans to look that up out of curiosity. Difference is that we are not really at that type of crisis situation. Not even close. But many have been lead to believe that we are on the path of destruction wether it's cultural, economic, or nuclear war. I do agree that the debt is a ticking bomb.
     
  25. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    That's what I said - notice the last line "If it's not really the issue, they will simply change the topic to something more emotional."
     
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