Post-match: So what is next for the Democratic Party? (Post 2024)

You should've been red carded weeks ago with Germie.

 

Jesus, I think most people are missing the point of this whole rhetoric thing. I don't know if anyone bothered reading the Third Way memo but it simply says in public facing roles, be normal. Don't talk like you're in grad school. Honestly think a good chunk of leftists and the people in here stating otherwise have never been in serious communication roles or advertising. I'd have been laughed at by my creative directors if I wrote an ad like I was in grad school.

If anyone bothered reading the memo, here's what part of it says:

I know some will say no Dems speak that way (Plenty have), nor leadership (Biden was using it in his statements). Plenty of Dems have spoken in the "woke" way (Much as I am loathe to use the word) that it's now an issue for Dems. Like or not, them's the breaks.

I will ask this, what's more important though, winning? Or sounding like you went to grad school?

 

'tis the woke way.

aka fascism of the left.

 

The aggravating thing is anytime a Dem politician doesn't speak a certain way, people freak out. Case in point, Slotkin. One poster on here claimed she was going to do a Fetterman. Like what? I've heard progressives claim she's a centrist or my favorite, a Bush era Republican. At that point, I just think these people need a reality check.

I'm still as Dem as it gets, it's just that as I've said, Dems can't use rhetoric that works in D+50 spaces when you need to win in a toss up spot. Same goes for national. Point that out to progressives or on here and a lot of people assume the worst.

And it's annoying that progressives can't seem to get that their ideas aren't popular. They haven't had any significant victory in something serious in ages. I mean, progressives are trying to push Abdul El-Sayed in the MI Senate race, the same guy who lost big time to Whitmer in the MI gov primary years ago.

 

Was the Slotkin thing over using oligarchs, autocrats vs. kings?

I remember she gave a DNC speech that was largely panned, that I personally didn’t listen to.

I personally don’t have a problem with her at all. I guess the concern would be that she placates MAGA instead of fighting against it, but I don’t think I’ve seen that either?

 

You need to stop annoying the adults who are trying to have civil conversations, Peewee. Go out in the yard and chase squirrels around or something. SHOO!

 

really the only one acting childish here is you, little fella.

I won't be silenced by the woke police, sorry.

 

sometimes what to do next is a postmortem so we don't make the same mistakes again. the point is we may win a semantics argument or two but we're losing the war, and its not even close.

maybe we need to speak like normal folk and move away from things that are hurting us at the ballot box.

 

[edited by mod]

 

It's that. Among other things. Part of my annoyance with the people panning Slotkin is she doesn't talk a certain way. And people don't seem to get why. If you lived where she lived (Holly), you'd be amazed that she's a Dem. I grew up not too far from Holly, I know what that area's like.

Thing is, she's as Dem as they come. Just about every notable conservative think tank doesn't think highly of her. She ain't placating MAGA at all, she just doesn't talk like AOC for a reason. And that pisses progressives off. And for the most part, I agree with her on a lot of things. The woman's old district (Which I grew up in and lived in) has been red since time immemorial. Then she flips the seat, holds it, and narrowly and I mean narrowly won her Senate seat. Guarantee she talked like AOC in the Senate race it'd be Republican Senator Mike Rogers and not Democratic Senator Elissa Slotkin.

Slotkin has been saying similar about rhetoric for a while. But instead it gets certain people to do what's essentially "LA LA LA, can't hear the centrist!" Then they wonder why they lose elections. Slotkin's Senate primary appointment, a person who checked the progressive boxes got walloped big time by her. (Although it didn't help that he was also a literal carpet bagger.)

 

hey @Val can you explain why this was "edited"...thanks, pm me if you want. but I don't mind having everything out in the open.

I'd always prefer we just talk to (and about) folks directly rather than behind their backs. I didn't feel comfortable talking about Germy behind his back and I'd hate to think people here were talking about me behind my back.

 

FYP in bold for clarity.

I think a lot of people who don’t live in red and purple areas get just how polarizing the language can be. Upthread I posted that video of a farmer, and the top rated comments were about how people loved to hear his accent and particular phrases that coded he was trustworthy.

The problem I see, coming from a similar cult-like culture, is that it is a positive feedback loop where that manner of speech has to link up with a certain worldview.

The most real people I know don’t do that, and they also don’t get selected to do those kinds of videos. Often, because they are quite out of step with pop culture and have a lot of incredibly mis- or ill-informed views that they don’t hold back on. But they will often, when probed, admit that their expertise in that area is not so solid.

So Slotkin seems to me like a super-amazing-frantagilistic Sherrod Brown-esque figure where she can talk to her constituents in a way that doesn’t alienate them, while also voting pretty much straight Dem, and not getting blowback because her constituents will actually listen to her.

Being raised and coming from that super red kind of ethos, it doesn’t take that much to get buy in from people in that mindset if you can soften them up enough to actually listen.

That’s where I get so upset at WokeMonitor, because he is fanning the flames instead of trying to calm the waters and get at the heart of the matter. You are much more grounded.

I get that it takes all types, but what he is doing is counterproductive because his approach is shallow and constantly shifting. Come at me with a real concern, and I can talk about it. But I am not going to engage when one is just shouting the loudest and absolutely refuses to let anyone have the last word.

 

Who is WokeMonitor, just so we're clear? I've found you to be levelheaded and reasonable so if it's me you're referring to, I can hear your feedback. I can assure you my concerns are real, but I can perhaps frame them in a more palatable way.

 

Except plenty of prominent Dems have said this. Not some Dems like you say. The goalposts keep getting moved when it's pointed out.

What not to do is also important for Dems to win future elections. Not giving conservatives ammo is you know, important.

Man, woman, whatever the person likes to go by. most people hear cisgender and they're going to check out.

It again, sounds esoteric when words like "inmate," "prisoner," or "convict" exist. It again, sounds like something out of a grad school course or a progressive think tank.

Who on Earth said that?

 

No message received. You surprise me. First, I didn't know you were a mod for this forum and second, what for?

 

I know there's a button to keep trolls and other undesirables out of specific threads...

 

Lol damn it.

The problem I see, coming from a similar cult-like culture, is that it is a positive feedback loop where that manner of speech has to link up with a certain worldview.[/quote]

Thank you! I grew up around hardcore lefties as said before, but end of the day they're boring everyday Dems. They don't talk like that at all. Meanwhile, one of their kids talks like they're in grad school. So much so that their own mother teased them about it. Their father might agree with them but he worked for one of Detroit's socialists at one point.

I get that. But my frustration comes from people screaming that Slotkin is a centrist or is going to "Pull a Fetterman" like one user said here. All because of something she said.

I wouldn't call Slotkin Brown-esque though. She flipped a district that was as red as Man United's shirt and had been red for nearly 20 years. Then she held the seat. Brown won in a blue area when he was in the House. Pelosi has also said she wished she had 100 Slotkins when it came to fundraising.

I think Slotkin is one of the best talents around but because she doesn't speak or act a certain way that's not good enough for progressives. Anyone worth their salt should've been looking at how she won Michigan. Same with people like Andy Beshear who has also been saying similar.

I agree that Quakes should mellow out, but the people that disagree either put their fingers in their ears or just scream stuff over and over. And when examples are pointed out, the goalposts get moved like on here. And when James Carville has rightly pointed out that NPR language has hurt Dems, people have pushed back.

That said, progressives haven't been able to win seats that weren't Chelsea blue at all. And they can't seem to get that. Bernie or Warren can't win a primary. Meanwhile, Biden, the bland Dem was able to win 2020 despite people (Like me) thinking Bernie could possibly win it.

I usually had a hesitation towards progressive rhetoric because at best it seemed awkward and at worst it seems alienating. On a related note, there's an NY Times article written last year about how DEI had problems at Michigan. Lot of people trying to tiptoe among other things, and the same rhetoric problem I've mentioned.

At some point, progressives have to ask if they want to win or if they want to have the high ground. It's the same philosophy Arsenal fans had under Wenger while finishing 4th ("We play beautiful football unlike Chelsea") and meanwhile Chelsea are winning trophies in boring fashion. And quite frankly, I'd rather not be the specialists in failure.

 

There’s a simpler word: prisoners.

I posted a link showing that Republicans use “woke” words much more than Democrats. Does that matter to you?

 

No, it doesn't.

It's not about who says it more, it's again: about not giving Republicans ammo. It's about not giving Fox News and such ammo. It's about not sounding weird to swing voters. Using words such as the ones like Biden and AOC (Two prominent Dems) used as I listed below.

 

Yes! Getting the progressives onboard so we can win shouldn’t even be a challenge given the alternative. That’s the part that still leaves me completely flabbergasted. I know I’ve repeated this ad nauseam but I couldn’t believe these woke youngsters (back in 2015) who I knew cared deeply about the environment (and most every other issue Democrats care about) were going to essentially help Trump get elected knowing full well this would mean the most conservative SC any of us had ever seen, and so on. It’s still baffling to me. And then to see all this stuff come up around Gaza and Genocide Joe, at exactly the time we needed all hands on deck…progressives were kind of wrapped up in that drama too and furious with Harris for her perceived complicity in Bibi’s war. Then these same activists are being plucked from their universities and deported under the admin they just helped elect with their activism….ahhh giant sigh.