So how savvy will we actually be in the market place this summer?

This was posted in the transfer thread a few days ago:

It's been on my mind for the past half hour... well, I've been pondering over why the hell we'd pay Bayern 17m for Hargreaves for the past half hour, actually.

Anyway, this thread is about the that list of 6 points made in relation to our targets and their club's position and need for change next season.

For example, buying a player from Spurs, who have just finished 5th in the league and feel they are on the up, would feasibly be a lot harder than getting a player from Charlton who have just been relegated and will have to chop that squad wage bill down and cut their cloth accordingly with the new division they find themselves in.


I don't quite get why we're allegedly looking to tie up Hargreaves for £17m from a club who have not qualified for the CL next season, do not have rival buyers for the player, who incidentally, asked for them to let him go? Where is the sense in that from our POV? Irrespective of whether I think he's worth that, how comes the fee is so high? Just what do we do wrong to be so embarassingly rolled over in the market every summer?

We sell for disgracefully low returns (Beckham in particular) and tend to purchase at way above asking the asking price any other truly big club will pay (the Diarra debacle was the last example - we were told £25m, RM bought him for £17m... paying £29m for Rio in Leeds' situation ) unless we buy from obscure leagues or get un-fancied players from better leagues, we seem to have to idea how to take advantage of our grandiose stature in the world game. I know a lot of people have the attitude that it's not our money (the fans) so they don't care. I've always found that to be a bizarre way of thinking about this... we are Manchester United and every time we get shafted, we send out the message to future suitors that we are willing to get greased up and done over.. I hate that!

Anyway. This is our first real chance in a long time to assert some kind of forcefulness in the transfer market. Winning is a great elixir, inebrious, in fact. Players want a piece of that particular cake and will nearly always favour a club that has won things over one that hasn't...unless the money the losing club offers is ridiculous.

I'm looking at the clubs we could be buying from this summer to see how they could play us in the market and more interestingly, to see if Gill lets them play us with a bluffed hand. In the melting pot you could have any of these clubs: Barca, Charlton, Bayern, Marseille, Atletico Madrid, Middlesbrough, Sporting Lisbon, Porto, Spurs and Southampton. I'm sure I've missed a lot of clubs out, but these are the ones that come straight to mind.

Let's look at the situation and player for each of these clubs.

Barca - Eto'o - rumours, pipedreams, whatever you want to call it, we're linked with him of late. The split in the dressing room between he and Ronaldinho Gaucho as well as the confusion with regard to Rijkaard and Laporta hastens interest. If Barca don't win their league one or the other from Ronaldinho and Eto'o is likely to be going in the summer. The money on the table for either will be obscene. Gaucho will recoup the outlay through activity outside of football, he's a marketing empire. Eto'o, I believe will go for around £40m irrespective of Barca's final standing in the league he is clearly in the elite category for strikers and if we were to spend on him it would be a massive fee, admittedly. So on this score there can't really be any qualms. The other thing about a player of Eto'o's standing is such that he doesn't need Manchester United. If he didn't end up here he'd probably end up at another true giant of the game. I doubt we have any particular sway over a player like him. He's proven, he's class and he is heavily coveted so a bidding war is feasible. I don't think Gill could make us look bad here unless we went out and spent £50m on the chap. The final factor with him would be Henry. Barca are still sniffing around Henry and if Eto'o is gone and Ronaldinho kept, it would certainly invite a bid. In former seasons Henry wasn't likely to leave Arsenal, but these days you never know.

Charlton - Bent - As stated Charlton have just been sent down and they are in no position to negotiate on a player who will definitely be playing in the PL next season. The only way Charlton would have legs in any negotiations here is if two of the 'big 4' started an impromptu bidding war for the player. I have my suspicions about Liverpool and this player, just a feeling, it may well turn out to be unfounded, but if they tabled a bid and we did as well, we'd either have a bidding war or let the player decide whilst digging our heels in at a moderate evaluation of the player. Under the circumstances that Charlton are in I think it'd be a very bad look to spend anything over £10m on Bent, inclusive of Utd tax. All the chips would surely be on our doorstep with regards to this guy.

Bayern Munich - Hargreaves - Also mentioned above. No CL, a club in desperate need of a new midfield, a player that wants to leave and has no other top club interested. How is it possible to spend anything over £14m on him?

Marseille - Ribery - Currently second in Ligue 1 - I don't know if that carries with it an automatic CL spot or not, I should think it does. Marseille only have 2 games left in their league and if they hold onto an automatic CLQ spot you can bet that will drive up any price a buyer would have to pay to take the player. Ribery has said he wants out of Marseille, which should mean the price doesn't go too high. He's coveted, big clubs are waiting for him, so I should imagine we'd get royally shafted on this player and would in fact look elsewhere.

Atletico Madrid - F.Torres - No CL for AM next season should keep the price down on what it would've been for Spain's golden boy. Like Eto'o he's a kid who has his pick of clubs and doesn't neccesarily need to be flattered by our interest alone. The release clause in his contract is £27m the only way you're going to get him for less is if he says he wants to go or the club wants to sell. Neither scenario will happen, the fans would not be happy with the club for selling and Torres is an AM supporter so he wouldn't want to shaft his club. A bidding war is also feasible with this kid unless he picks a club he prefers to go to. We'd be daft to pay 'Eto'o money' for an unfinished product, but then again, no club is going to go into the deep 30's to buy Torres. At those prices the shadow of Eto'o and Villa looms large and most continental clubs, in particular, are going to take the first two before they'd take Torres if the prices are similar.

Middlesbrough - Yakubu - wants out. boro are shite there's bad blood between the clubs for sure, which would make a transfer troublesome. Buying PL players is always an expensive business, the Utd tax would be extreme, but I can't imagine a player like Yakubu turning us down if we showed an interest, which would put the ball in our court.We bought Saha for £12m, I would expect a similar fee for Yakubu. The market place has changed, but his form is erratic which would lower his value somewhat.

Sporting Lisbon - Nani – There’s one game left in Portugal. Sporting currently sit second in their division and looking at the final fixture for them and their nearest rival suggest they’ll hold onto that spot. Nani has said he wants out though, so like Ribery at Marseille he presents a problem for his employers. The kid seems to be interested in us, which is a great bargaining chip. He is relatively unproven and most importantly, we have a superb relationship with Sporting who are a feeder club of ours in some capacity. I think this is one signing even we couldn’t feck up really. Nani must see how Ronaldo has become a national icon with his exploits for us and how Ronaldo has turned into a world beater. He’s surely been in contact with Ronaldo and we have Queiroz and his staff here who would work hard to get the kid settled quickly. In other words the environment is right, the football we play is appealing, the potential for growth and the money that brings with it will all be appealing to the player. Of all the wingers we’ve been linked with, I think this one would be our best piece of business in terms to getting the right price.


Porto – Anderson – might just be a rumour that we’re in for him, but Fergie has been high on this kid for at least a year. He mentioned him before we played Porto in the Amsterdam tournament last summer. I don’t know too much about Anderson outside of him apparently having had a great season in Portugal and being very hot property on the continent. Perhaps someone who knows the ins and outs of the Portuguese league could put a fair price on the kid?

Spurs – Berbatov – not going to happen for reasons stated in the opener. We would get murdered on the price if Spurs would even entertain an enquiry for their hottest talent.

Southampton – Bale – all the PL suitors will be delighted at Southampton’s failure to get themselves promoted. That will have put a sizeable hammer blow in any negotiations for the player and surely the fees that were bandied about a few months ago will have been reconsidered. I suppose it depends on if the kid even wants out, though. I can’t see how we could end up paying anything like £10m for him now. He is coveted by other clubs, but I doubt any of them can offer him what we could. Playing and learning from Giggs and our coaching staff is apparently a dream for him. I have my doubts he’s in our plans as anything but a 3rd or 4th choice if bids for players like Nani or whoever else we look at fall through.


Feel free to add on any clubs/players I’ve missed. I’ll be disappointed if this close season, in which we have so much bargaining power, is not exploited to its fullest. We have the chance to change perception of how we are looked at in the transfer market this summer. Will Gill and co have us look like mugs, yet again?

 

Sorry Achtung, but that's just not accurate.

These are accurate views of how we are in the market:

It isn't a question of what players will do when they get here. No one doubted Rio or Carrick or Rooney (well I certainly didn't) before they came here, but in each instance except Rooney, we overpaid, that has no bearing on whether they then turn out to be money well spent in the future. All it does is send out a message that we can be made mugs of every single window and then you see the club being quoted absurd prices that no other 'true giant' would have to pay.

We act small time in the market and are treated accordingly. This is our chance to right many years of wrongs, but if the club has the attitude to this that you have given, then we'll continue to be made mugs of. A player is only worth what someone is willing to pay...supply and demand... we have the status of 'a giant' but have absolutely no idea of how to use it to our advantage and it is embarassing. How on earth can Diarra be quoted to us for £25m in the same summer that RM got him for £17m? That's an £8m difference!! It's outrageous and it sets a precedent of how clubs can treat us because we allow them to do so.

They are not in the CL, the player wants out and the ££ they will lose from one season's CL revenue will hurt them, big club or not.

Holding a player against his will sends out a bad message to potential targets you're trying to entice to your club.

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re. Nani. That's a surprise to me if he signs a new contract there. It's almost certain to have us look elsewhere!

re. Anderson. I've heard a lot about him, but have seen next to nothing of him. Does anyone have any links to footage of the player?

 

Dunno really. Can only vouch for myself on that score. Rio was clearly an exceptional player on the up, but Lids were in no position to not accept us low-balling them on his fee. The outrage comes from the fact we spent way more then was necessary to land the player. When you look at how little all the rest of the Lids lot went for, it's even more embarassing to see how we got done over.

Carrick was and is a good player, but to that point in time he wasn't worth what we paid. What he did after purchase isn't really relevant as I'm taking about face values relative to performance to date of purchase.

Veron was priced about right. An exceptional player who was in the form of his life in Italy. What he did here afterward isn't of any relation to the point being made.

I don't know how you can say that when you see how much we are quoted for players every summer and then how much they go to another 'giant' for. There is a clear discrepency and it is all on our side. In other words, we're seen as soft touches in the market and until we make a stance, will always be seen as such.