Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by DCU1996, Aug 24, 2006.
and what do you think it(the incentives) should be?
Now: $100K, Trophy., Dr. Pepper and bag of Chips
Pyro the Commisioner's Plan: $500K, Trophy and CONCACAF Champions birth.
Do the champions get a 4th round spot even if they finish outside the top 4 in MLS? If not, they should.
Also, agree with the post above. Except keep giving them the Dr. Pepper.
Incentives? You get to win the g**d**** US Open Cup. Awesome.
But seriously, a Champions' Cup spot would be good. But not in place of the Shield winner or MLS Cup winner...in addition to them.
I think the money's fine, but they need to pay out to small teams when they do well instead of trying to eff them over. Actually $25k for the best team of each category instead of 10k would be good.
Agreed about paying the divisional champions more $$$. That, or at least better reimbursement of the teams' expenses. A limit of $7500 per traveling team per game really sucks for the amateur teams that have to suck up all that additional expense beyond $7500.
Professional teams can suck up that additional expense, but amateur teams should be better reimbursed.
Champions Cup should be.... Open Cup winner, regular season MLS champion
Remember the US teams that get places in CCC are MLS teams. USOC winners aren't exactly always MLS teams.
I think that needs to change. Would be an additional incentive to winning the Cup. The Champions Cup is not exclusively for MLS clubs...it's whoever US Soccer decides to enter.
I know just would USSF change that? Most likely not.
and there are another aspects to the tale
what if Toronto FC wins the SS or the MLS cup? should they represent the USA in the CCC? and what say FIFA the USSF and CSF have on that?
a spot in the CCC should be the ultimate incentive especially that the USOC winners are supposely the official US Soccer champs
Just 10 of the last 11 years is all.
I would say that's up to CONCACAF and the USSF. If Toronto wanted to try to qualify via MLS and not a separate Canadian tournament, that's fine with me I guess. If they want a separate tournament, I suppose that's ok too.
Of course, that's not a problem if the USOC winner gets a CCC berth instead of the Supporters' Shield winner.
CONCACAF wouldn't let the USSF send the MLS Champion to the tournament, as they are the league champion.
aren't the MLS champs and the SS winners get an automatic bid to the CCC?
and which separate canadian tournament TFC would play? i don't even think there is one at the moment
bottom line,i take it you don't really care if a canadian team will represent the USA in the CCC further more you don't give a damn if they would be crowned as MLS champs as well as a Canadian Champs through a tournament yet to even exists(though i saw Canadian teams have been participating in the past but not recently)
i read the Washington Diplomats have claimed it 1988 four yrs after the NASL has folded(which never had a share for the CCC)
as long as my concern the USSF should make a stand on the whole issue here both on the USOC status and the CCC representation as i'd put the USOC winner as 1 of the CCC participants and now that the MLS are not a solitary US anymore,give the canuck teams a share with the USOC and rename it the North American Open Cup for the matter
however,both countries have a separate NT's and separate soccer Fererations at the moment so it wouldn't be appropriate to send a unified representation to the official continental tournie as i see it
I know this is totally unhelpful and will likely cause a $hitstorm, but I'll throw it out there anyway: All of this confusion could have been avoided if Toronto was not given a MLS team to begin with.
basically i don't have a problem with American&Canadian playing under the same umbrella like the NHL,NBA and MLB the only conflict is the representations affair which caused that mess to begin with and don't exist with the traditional American sports
the North Americans(especially south of the border)should pause seeing themselves as they are living in another planet as long is soccer is concerned(single entities and all that crap yet it has never stop them for tempting Beckham and his missus and bend their rules for that holy cause) and give the continental representations the respect they deserve
it is not "fine" Toronto or another future canuck town would have a representation for the CCC based on an American league considering the CONCACAF has no say on the matter whatsoever(just like UEFA should not have one on a possible future southern Old Firm move and representation through it)so it is up to the domestic Feds to repair that twisted situation and give the bid to the USOC winner
the NASL had absolutely no representation in any official continental tournaments(I.E,the CCC) and so shouldn't the MLS but it doesn't mean an MLS team can't get a bid through the USOC of course which make a difference
One hand: confusion
Other hand: brand new stadium, more than 11,000 season tickets sold, great city....
Yeah, I can see why you'd want to avoid that, because people are "confused."
I would really love to see your explanation as to how Toronto being in MLS causes anything regarding the Open Cup.
I think he was talking about confusion vis-a-vis the MLS Cup winners and/or Supporters Shield winners and the CCC/SuperLiga, not necessarily the USOC, even though it's a USOC thread.
As a ALL League, All Levels and all Knock Out Cup style competition, the victor is crowned as a true 'National Champion' for that year.
Often allows the underdogs of our growing association football culture to have a go at as many upsets as they can make. Dallas Roma had a tremendous run last year. In theory, some bar team or a ranchero team sponsored by Chico's Bail Bonds could make a great run.
A lot of the greats in U.S. Soccer history have a stake in the OLDEST CUP COMPETITION in all of the Americas. Kinda nice to put your name next to some historical figures. I mean who couldn't forget Aldo Donelli and his IronEagle hat trick against Mexico's El Tri in 1934!
Here's a precedent - in this year's UEFA Cup, Derry City represented the League of Ireland (that's the league of the Republic of Ireland) despite the fact that they are located in Northern Ireland.
If Toronto FC plays in the US system and qualifies through a US league, they should represent USSF in international play.
and don't forget Mexican teams compete for both the CCC and the Libertadores which makes it quite ludicrious
it's about time they take a decision whether they play in Concacaf or Conmebol. i'd suggest the latter
as for the matter,i was all for givin' Canuck teams the privilege playing for the USOC but the blessed addition of a Canadian team to the MLS has raised the CCC representation Q yet again and urged a decision time for the governing bodies
the main Q though is if they're even aware the conflict considering the issue and by that i don't mean MLS for itself(as they are the inheretants of the NASL which never had to deal with the matter whatsoever) rather than the USSF the CSF and last but not least,the umbrella fed called FIFA
Technically speaking, Derry City represented the FAI (Football Association of Ireland, I think), not the league.[/quote]
Yes they do, but if the Mexican team wins the competition they don't represent the confederation. It would be the second place team that went.
I believe that if they want to play in the Libertadores then they should qualify against South America. I doubt Mexico would see many WC's after that. Obviously the inclusion of Mexico in the Libertadores is clearly a financial one.
of course,i meant they should play there all together all forms
actually i heard they wish a move to Conmebol but conditioned the move with the USA they've stated Americans are "cowards" for not wishing a move there with them
the only benefit the US will have playing there is a Libertadores participation of course which Mexico already have but i don't think if Mexico move the US should follow them automatically but as i speak i wouldn't mind a merged American confederations all together just wonder if it ever reached FIFA's conferences table could be awesome for both
back to the original issue as much as some have expressed their doubts on a MLS Canuck team it could only bring good news for the USOC which can become a stepping stone for a USSF reformation bring the USOC back it's status as the original destination as the official US soccer championship due to the CCC representation as i've mentioned b4
a final remark considering Derry City's situation i believe it has to do with the fact most of the City's population are Catholics which why they have separated from the NI league which are mostly Prod(i believe Donegal Celtic had the same situ' after the late 80's clashed with fans of the main Proddy club Linfield and moved south of the border)
The only way they can make this tournament worthwhile is if they increase the prize money for the winners (and the teams that advance the farthest from each level) and give the winner a place in the Champions Cup.
If a PDL or a USASA team makes a "Dallas Roma FC-like" run....$10,000 hardly covers your expenses. Dallas Roma FC had to travel to Los Angeles TWICE in 2006. In the end, Dallas Roma FC didn't even get all $10,000 because the Carolina Dynamo ALSO made it to the 4th round last year, so they had to split the Amateur prize money. (Both teams had 2 wins over teams from a higher division, and a win vs. an amateur team)