Slow Midfield

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by neilgrossman, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    Does it bother anyone else that we will be really slow in the midfield next season?

    We are going to start Etcheverry at A-mid. His inability to get downfield to join a fast-break has been one of our biggest problems the last two season. Once he gets the ball, he has to slow it down just to get past one guy with his dribbling moves. I still don't beleive we re-signed him.

    We are going to start Nelson at D-mid. He proved under wRongen that he was too slow to play that position. How can he join the offense and still get back to play defense in time?

    Our probable additions to midfield (Stoitchkov, Harkes, Stewart) are all well past 30. Of those, only Stewart still appears to have some speed.

    Is the hustle of Olsen going to make up for all this?
     
  2. SoccerEsq

    SoccerEsq Member

    Aug 28, 2000
    Maryland SoccerPlexish
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Harkes won't start regularly in our midfield and neither will Stoitchkov. (But they are both great guys to have available as inexpensive subs.)

    I agree with others who've suggested that Etcheverry will play a holding midfield role behind Kovalenko or Stewart or Convey. As Etcheverry has been playing deeper he's also started to show a willingness to apply his "tenacity" to defense--I've seen him sliding in on more than one occasion. Don't get me wrong, he's not a D-mid but I think he could be very successful in a holding role in a 3-5-2 with guys like Reyes behind him, Olsen next to him and Stewart in front of him.

    While Nelsen isn't fast, I think he's improved significantly since Rongen first tried him a D-mid originally.

    A midfield with say Nelsen, Etcheverry, Olsen, Convey and Kovalenko would be just fine with me. Even at forward Stewart's the kind of guy who will hustle to break up attacks from his forward position and don't forget the speed of Reyes on defense.
     
  3. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    we simply cannot have nelsen playing dmid, i love the guy and love his improvement but he just isn't fast enough to play in the midfield. him and etch in the same midfield would scare the hell out of me and probably make it very difficult for reyes to attack.
     
  4. SoccerEsq

    SoccerEsq Member

    Aug 28, 2000
    Maryland SoccerPlexish
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a rhetorical/argumentative question...

    How much can we expect Reyes to get forward as a defender in a 3-5-2 even with reasonably fast H/D-mids?
     
  5. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    i have thought a lot about this myself squire and i am wondering about it. too me reyes abilities on the flank are really perhaps the best part of his game (other than his insanely fast closing speed on guys) and i'd hate to lose that. certainly convey or olsen (assuming convey plays on the wing) could cover for reyes, though obviously one would like them in an attack as well.

    i think, as you imply, the 3-5-2 doesn't really play to milton's strength in my opinion
     
  6. DCFAN

    DCFAN Member

    Apr 5, 1999
    Convey, Olsen, Kovalenko and Reyes are the likely midfielders with Etch. Of those 5, Etch is the only one that can be considered below average speed.
     
  7. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    I guess I view things a little differently.

    1. Etcheverry doesn't have good foot speed. But he plays accurate long balls better than anyone else in MLS. In short, he is capable of creating a very fast transition.

    2. Kovalenko may not be a speed demon but he's not slow either. And Convey and Olsen on the flanks. That's a decent midfield "speed-wise".

    3. As for Nelsen, there is speed of foot, and speed of thought. He's no speed demon. But he looked slow as a rooke b/c (a) he was a rookie (and was slow to react--making his foot speed issue even bigger) and (b) he had so much territory to cover (b/c Etcheverry didn't defend and Convey could even spell defense back then). Now, he's a veteran, with far more confidence, with mids who will defend more (heck--even Marco tracks back more than he originally did) and he'll have someone (likely Kovalenko) to help out. In short, I don't think he's going to look slow this time around.

    4. Before we go talking about how much slower we're going to be, let's look at this versus last year. Richie Williams is quick--but also slow. In a foot race, he gets beaten (and he doesn't have the bulk to slow fast attackers by getting in front of them or denying their path). McKinley for Harkes--(if we sign Harkes) I think John Harkes is faster than Ivan was. Stewart is faster than Moreno in my book. Olsen will gain another 1/2 a step. Ivan for Pope--I haven't seen enough of Ivan so I think we lost some speed there.

    Bottom line: Pope and Williams are probably faster than Ivanov and Nelsen while Stewart and Kovalenko are probably faster than Moreno and Nelsen/McKinley (which is basically what the holding mid subs for--a central defender). And Olsen should regain a bit more of his quickness. Slower as a team? I don't think so--I think it's about a wash for our starting 11.
     
  8. DCAustinite

    DCAustinite New Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    NE DC in my heart -
    Club:
    DC United
    I don't see a problem

    I suspect that etch and Hristo will split time in the game fifty/fifty, as such two old skilled boys can be one really super midfielder. Nelsen will be fine and convey and olsen are two of the fastest mids out there, add kovalenko who is faster than average to that mix and at worse you've got an average speed midfield.
    I personally thing Earnie's talents would be wasted at striker, he's the best attacking mid the NATs have had in years, why not let him clean up after and set up for Quaranta and Esakandarian? Also, he will instantly know where to go to get a feed from bobby in the box, something bobby showed he's learned to do quite well.
     
  9. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    When Moreno is healthy and going full speed, I'm not sure there is anyone in the history of MLS faster with or without the ball. That being said, Stewart is still fast. I'm not worried about his speed. It's just Etch and Nelson in center mid that worry me.

    I remember too many times last season when the forwards pushed the ball up and had no one to dump it back to. Sometimes Williams (despite not being particularly fast) was the first midfielder there. Nelson is slower than Williams, so its possible most of the support could be coming pretty late.
     
  10. Th4119

    Th4119 Member+

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    RYAN NELSEN LAST YEAR WAS FASTER BOTH PHSYICALLY AND MENTALLY THAN IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON, TELL ME SOMEONE ELSE SAW THIS.

    What makes you guys think he won't continue to improve?

    Sure, we could put Reyes at D-mid so he gets more opportunities to score. That booming shot of his sure got him a lot of goals last year as opposed to Ryan Nelsen, our leading scorer. Nelsen also gives us a superior aerial presence in the midfield, something we deeply lacked last year.
     
  11. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Moreno was always one of those rare players who was faster with the ball than without it. At one point, he had decent speed. But two things have happened. MLS has gotten faster. Moreno has gotten slower (age and injuries).

    And yes, Ryan Nelsen has gotten faster. A little of it is that he's gotten more mature physically. The bigger part is: he's not a rookie anymore. He plays with more confidence, he reads the game better, he anticipates better, he players more aggressively.

    I still stand by my initial position: I think team speed (out of our starting 11) is wash between 2003 and 2002.
     
  12. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    I think we are faster this year if Olsen and Convey are healthy at the start of the season.
     
  13. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    Couple of points:

    1. I have seen Earnie play a striker role for NAC several times--including this past November. While I agree he is better further back, but if he can play striker in Holland he could in MLS.

    2. Todd and Joe--I didn't see any improvement in Ryan's phyiscal speed, though I definitely agree with Joe's point about "speed of thought" and that as Ryan gets better and more knowlegeable he can compensate. However, I still think he is a better defender than a dmid.

    3. Joe have you seen the Bulgarian guy play? If he isn't fast what are his other qualities? I assume if he is on their select side he must be pretty good.

    4. Demo scares me after that nasty tackle on DMB last year--I keep thinking I am gonna read Diceson's practice report and see he has taken out half our midfield in trainning.
     
  14. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Whose to say Ivanov won't play as a d-mid considering how well Nelsen played in the back last season?
     
  15. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    1) When was the last time that happened?

    2) Moreno is history. Get over it.
     
  16. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    It is possible Ivanov has played midfield (though he's mostly been a defender). But Ray specifically has said that Nelsen will be tried at D-mid and that Ivanov will be in the central defense spot.
     
  17. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member+

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    We will see May 10th ...
     
  18. soccerhooligan33

    soccerhooligan33 New Member

    Oct 31, 2002
    Clifton, VA
    unless hes off in the locker room playing ping-pong...
     
  19. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It appeared to me also that Nelsen was much faster last year. For one thing it looked as if he'd lost some wieght. But yes, noticeably faster.

    As for the speed issue, I think DCU will be faster than last season. Convey, if anything will be faster, Olsen should have more speed as he approaches full health, Stewart on a wing will be faster, and while Nelsen may not be a speed demon, is he really slower than Ritchie?

    You want a fast lineup? How about

    ---Quaranta---Curtis---
    --------MAE------------
    -Olsen-Convey-Stewart-
    -------Reyes--------
    Prideaux-Nelsen-Petke

    Just to scare some potential opponents. And we don't even know about Ivanov now.
     
  20. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    well then, i guess if everyone else noticed he is faster i'll jump on the bandwagon.

    btw--i am not sure ali curtis upfront scares anyone, but it is a quick squad.
     
  21. DCFAN

    DCFAN Member

    Apr 5, 1999
    Hudson said Stewart and Quaranta will be the forwards.
    At least one of Prideaux, Ivanov, Reyes, Nelson, and Petke will not be a starter (maybe two of them).
    3-5-2:
    Stewart Quaranta
    Convey Etch Kovalenko Olsen Reyes
    (Prideaux or Nelson) Ivanov Petke

    4-4-2
    Stewart Quaranta
    Convey Etch Kovalenko Olsen
    4 of Prideaux Nelson Ivanov Petke Reyes
     
  22. SoccerEsq

    SoccerEsq Member

    Aug 28, 2000
    Maryland SoccerPlexish
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who's got the defensive midfield responsibilities in that 4-4-2?
     
  23. DCFAN

    DCFAN Member

    Apr 5, 1999
    Def. Mid. is the biggest concern in my opinion. We are more likely to see the 3-5-2 with a 2 def. mid scheme. I do not like Nelson as a midfielder so I am afraid to project him there.
    I could see Petke given a try there since he is probably quicker than Nelson.

    In the 4-4-2 formation Convey could be given a try if Etch is the holding midfielder.
     
  24. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    I think we are going to end up using a 4-4-2. I think that's the best system to utilize Reyes. He's one of our best defenders, but he should be able to get forward down the sidelien as well.

    I wouldn't mind seeing:

    Q1 Stewart

    Etch/Kovelenko
    Convey Olsen
    Petke

    Prideaux Nelson Ivanov Reyes

    If we do end up in a 3-5-2 with two defensive midfielders, we may want to consider Harskey. Don't worry aobut who would have to sit, they'll be plenty of injuries, call-ups and suspensions.
     
  25. 1True1

    1True1 New Member

    Jan 9, 2003
    San Diego
    "btw--i am not sure ali curtis upfront scares anyone, but it is a quick squad." (don't know how to quote directly on this...)

    Why is everyone so down on Curtis - last time I looked (and I know I am new to this) he was co-leader in goals scored - in half the PT of anyone else?? What's not threatening about that?

    He may not be the "marquee" player like a Santino or a Stewart, but he is not the slouch that many of you make him out to be.
     

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