SLC before Las Vegas and Phoenix?

The thought of playing in 109 Degrees F' in Vegas or Phoenix in July, August and September... well.

 

Um... you think Dallas is any better? There's a reason they're called the Burn...

But back to the question - if you have read ANY of the expansion threads on these boards, you would have learned this simple truth:

Any city that wants an MLS team can have one, provided they pony up the $10 mil expansion fee, a serious, committed I/O, and either an SSS or a viable alternative. Las Vegas and Phoenix have done none of the above. Salt Lake, it seems, is on the way to having all three from what little we've heard. Therefore, SLC is one of the frontrunners.

Not to mention that in Vegas's case, there are all the potential gambling and mob problems to get around. Which is why Vegas doesn't have ANY major league teams in any sport.

 

Las Vegas probably will never get a sports team due to the gambling there.

Phoenix is already a very saturated (over-saturaded) sports market. This and the weather.

BTW, the average temp for Phoenix for June - Aug. is 104 degrees Farenheit.

For Dallas it's 84.

 

There is no way the avg temp in Dallas is 84. Maybe the avg low temp. It is hot as hell here during the summer. 102 with 60-70% humidity is just as bad as 109 with 20% humidity.

 

Yeah, bring back the Las Vegas Seagulls!
Although having an MLS in Las Vegas would be cool, sport teams just don't do well here.

 

I wonder why. I hear there's not much to do in Vegas--in the evenings, that is.

 

Here's some of the pro teams that are not around any more. This is an old list so there might be more by now

BasketBasketball

Las Vegas Dealers, Western Basketball Association
Las Vegas Silvers, Continental Basketball League
Las Vegas Silver Streaks, World Basketball League
Las Vegas Bandits, International Basketball League

Football

Las Vegas Posse, Canadian Football League
Las Vegas Sting, Arena Football League
Las Vegas Aces, World Indoor Football League
Nevada Aces, Professional Spring Football League

Hockey

Las Vegas Thunder, International Hockey League
Las Vegas Flash, Roller Hockey International
Las Vegas Coyotes, Roller Hockey International

Soccer

Las Vegas Dustdevils, Continental Indoor Soccer League
Las Vegas Quicksilvers, North American Soccer League
Las Vegas Seagulls, American Soccer League
Las Vegas Americans, Major Indoor Soccer League
Las Vegas Quicksilvers, United States Interregional Soccer League

Volleyball

Las Vegas Vipers, National Volleyball Association

 

There's also that Las Vegas team that was in the XFL.

 

You forgot one other professional team from the 1990's:
UNLV Runnin' Rebels

 

Yeah, the Outlaws.

 

You mean college players somehow get paid?

 

Another poster mentioned this above.

But Salt Lake City and other cities in Utah have a track record of spending tax money on pro sports facilities. (The Olympics is a Very professional sports event).

Nevadans have a Libertarian streak that would probably inspire them to oppose spending tax money on a stadium for the Las Vegas Rat Pack. (The Supporters' Club would be The Made Guys. They would wear fedoras, mirrored sunglasses and pinky rings and chant "We know people, that know people, capisce, goombah!")

There's an MPSL team there now, but I don't know how they are doing. The guy that used to run the San Diego Flash was talking about starting a team there, before he ran into financial trouble.

 

We need an Earthquakes' fan or a fan of whoever Bastia's biggest rival is to post here that watching Greg Vanney play caused Arizonans to lose interest in soccer.

 

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/CLIMO/dfw/annual/dmotemp.html

The National Weather Service says that last year the Jun-Aug avg. was 84.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/CLIMO/dfw/monthly/dsummer.html

According to this, also from the National Weather Service, in 103 years, the hottest the average temp for Jun-Aug in Dallas has ever been is 89.2.


I'm not saying that there aren't days when the temp gets up to 100+, but when you average it out, the temp for that 3 month period is only 84.


Now, going just by this - http://www.gdc.org/quickfacts.htm - the avg. humidity in the evening or PM is 59% in Dallas. The morning or AM is 81%. The heat index with this humidity and a temp of 84 (what it feels like) is 87 for evening games. For day game it would feel like 94.

Now in Phoenix, http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/html/wx/climate/rh.html, the avg. humidty is 18% in the evenings and 42% in the mornings. That would make it feel like 101 in the evening and 119 in the mornings.

Now, these heat index numbers are very rough. I'm sure there's a more acurate way to do it and apply it in real terms but the simple fact is that it will be and feel hotter to play game in Phoenix, Arizona during the hottest months of the year (Jun-Aug) than it is in Dallas.

 

Arizona would have no problem if they play in the new Cardinal's stadium. Or did some of you forget about the new state of the art--Reliant-Like--stadium they are building in Phoenix?

Indoor Temp: 78 degrees
Playing Surface: Natural Grass

 

Not trying to get into a wizzing contest over which city is hotter then the other, but that data seems a bit incorrect. You're using the average of the high and low temperature (I think, or perhaps the pure 24-hour average) and applying it to an evening match. I think this is a bit more realistic:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/CLIMO/dfw/normals/dfwann.html

According to this, the average high temperature in June, July and August over the past 30 years is 93.77 degrees, with 73.8 of those days being hotter then 89 degrees. Further down the link you find that at around 6:00 in the evening the average humidity is 51% for the same months. So therefore it's reasonable to assume that an average evening game would be played at around 94 degrees in 51% humidity, with a heat index of almost 104 degrees.

 

Dallas, Phoenix, Vegas are all freakin' hot, lets leave it at that. Phoenix would have to hope for a great deal from Bidwell which is an oxymoron, since nothing is even remotely good when it involves that loser of a man from a loser of a family. That team is like eighty years old, and has won a wopping 6 playoff games or something like that in all those years. 80 yrs of below mediocracy isn't anyone's fault but the family that has owned them the whole time. MLS having anything to do with him or his family would be a tragic mistake. And I doubt that Colangelo is about to spot money for the team. AS to any city, get the fans, owner, and usable stadium= team. End of story.

 

Why is it that I hate hearing about the Posse again?

http://oursportscentral.com/cflinamerica/lasvegas.php

 

I was trying to get my numbers together pretty quick and I knew there was another way to get much more specific (like you did).

Both are hot. That's a fact. Dallas though would hold all the postive variables as they're more likely to have cloud cover in the evenings, cooling rains/storms. With Phoenix if the temperature does spike up, it spikes up really hotter, much hotter than a hot day in Dallas with 51% humidity.

The average high in Phoenix hit's 100 (103.5 in fact) early in June and remains that way until September. June averages at least 3 days where the temp is over 110. This jumps up to 105.9 in July but then fallas to 103.7 in August making the average high for these 3 months 104.4. So already the average high is where your hypothetical game conditions of 94 degrees with 51% humidty are.

No matter what, I think it would be ill-advised to ever have a day game in Phoenix which would eliminate them from ever being at home for a Soccer Saturday tv spot.

In Phoenix the temp does drop off about 10-12 degrees once the sun sets bringing a 104 at a 7:30 game start to about 92 by the end of the game. Not at all unreasonable. But again you would have those days where the temp will rocket up and not cool off enough in the evening.


I think what this all comes down to is that day games in Phoenix would be out. Any Phoenix team would also in all great likley hood not play in the new Cardinals stadium.


And yes. Dork check, I passed.

 

I caught on Discovery Channel. Hydrotheropy is concernment for Las Vegas. Their water supply dropped 75 feet since turn of century. All casino's and residents take up sod for desert scenery and such. The casino (Mention) look to save 800,000 gallons of water per year.

P.S. There haven't been talk about indoor stadium. This would cease degree of loom but football exist everywhere.

 

I'm not sure I understood everything you were trying to say.

 

This week or so. Segment of Discovery Channel show Las Vegas and concernment envovle water supply in general. It show reservoir at river. Difference is significantly from year 2000 to present (some 75 feet at cliff water line). Narrator imply "This summer Las Vegas will be in an National Crisis for water. Heavy fine, imprisonment, warnings ect... exist for waste of water. Casino's and residents take up sod ( and are reimburse by city something like $1.00 a yard) and replace sod with desert rocks, sand, bushes (diferent types) ect...

P.S. Las Vegas grows fast. More than any other in nation. I think some 3 millon people since century. THis has something to do with endangement.

 

There is gambling in a lot more places nowadays. And gambling is going to appear in more and more places in the future. And not just on reservations. I don't think gambling is going to be a stop-gap any longer that prevents Las Vegas from getting a major pro team.

What may continue stop them from getting a pro team is that the population has a lot of retirees and transients, and the population is also not all that used to supporting pro sports. So it is a gamble (heh) to put a major pro team there. Also, all previous attempts at pro sports in Vegas have been at a minor-league level, from the various basketball teams and indoor soccer teams to the XFL. And none of them have succeeded other than the Stars (aka 51's) of the PCL in baseball, who appeal to all the old people living on the golf courses.

As far as soccer goes, I don't know of anyone in town with the cash and willingness to run a team. A team could play at the Silver Bowl, though. It has grass and isn't too large. It is surrounded by soccer fields and is the hub of youth soccer.

One potential positive, but yet another wild card, is the growing Hispanic population. My old neighborhood is now a Mexican barrio, which is cool with me. I think that part of the Hispanic population would support a pro soccer team, but a lot of them may also ignore it. They have an entire soccer league of there own in Vegas which they can enjoy already.

To the person who mentioned the mob: that is a stereo-type that does not apply these days. The old mob has been replaced by the standard American mob of corporate racketeers that exists in every city.

And, yeah, the Seagulls!!! Right on, usagoal! I remember going to their games at the Silver Bowl (stupid astroturf at the time). I still have a couple penants signed by some of the players.

- Paul