I didn't see a thread, and didn't know if that was not to jinx our chances or what. But thought we should have one. So, heading into tonight (tomorrow for me) MLS hasn't lost to a Liga MX team in the knockouts, and the Cruz manager insists the alleged gap "no longer exists. That is totally over. There are no giants in this region..." OTOH, this could be a LigaMx sweep tonight, which would leave half the Mexican teams who came into this rounds advancing (five losses v MLS sides, one head to head). Still, we've played Toluca twice before, that I can remember, and been quite tidy in beating them at home and even on the road.
I think the gap is still there for the big teams, the likes of Tigres, America, and Monterrey. The West/Central side of the bracket certainly had the heavier hitters in terms of LigaMX teams. I think for the rest of the LigaMX sides, MLS has shown they've closed the gap (and certainly passed the lower end of LigaMX)..
Agree 100% but Liga MX teams are away from home for a month and it is not totally fair to them to make a comparison based on this tournament. I do agree with your statement. The only Liga MX teams that are scary are the three you mentioned.
In the five games between MLS and LigaMX, I think we might be one of two most likely MLS victors in this round. I'm not saying we're likely victors, but Club America, while pounded by Columbus, plays Chicago and while convinced Chicago is playing well, this seems like a really high bar. Also, CA is really good when they're on. Portland and Vancouver play Monterray and Tigres, and those are really, really good LigaMX teams. Maybe LAFC or Cinci beats them, but... Then it's RSL v Leon, which is the other game MLS has a shot in. I'm really impressed by RSL lately, so maybe they would be the most likely to steal a win. That said, winning against Toluca and making the round of 16 would be almost a perfect setup for the MLS season run in. We'd come out with confidence, but get a good amount, but not too much, rest. I'd take winning this thing, or snagging a CCL spot. But given how we've been this season, I'd take a final 16 spot as a victory. Hell, I'm taking being in this game as a victory.
Honestly, hearing about the prize pool in this one just for advancing has me a bit excited. There's some real cash to this, and at minimum every increase in our winnings makes the Pulido problem that much simpler.
CCL has the advantage of getting to play in other countries and other stadiums. Perhaps not as glamorous in execution as it is in concept, but I still value that. I've been blown away by how much I've enjoyed League's Cup. I most despised it on grounds that it was a diminishment from more relevant competitions like MLS Cup, as well as feeling kind of gimmicky... but like the last World Cup, once I turned on a game or two I was hooked. Whoops.
Agree, and having, what, a third? of the matches in Mexico would help and I hope is in the cards for future tournaments. I do think the bigger LigaMX clubs like the idea of growing their base of fans in the US. The problem with CCL is that I'm always wondering how the clubs would match up if MLS sides were at mid-season peak form. Of course, now it's LigaMX who aren't quite firing on all cylinders. But the format works, IMO. I thought 3 team groups was idiotic, but it delivered a lot of good soccer and drama.
Yeah, for MLS the Leagues Cup is about hitting the bigger-drawing teams and proving the league's improvement. For MX, it's about maintaining and growing their fanbases in the US. Huge win-win for all, in a monetary standpoint. Also St. Louis got themselves humiliated out of the tournament. Win-win-win.
Him and the ref (I’ve only seen the PKs live but his foul choices have seemed to lean Toluca, like before the 2nd goal).
Ref has been bad. Rosero has been awful. Pulskamp has been fantastic. Shelton continues to be a very poor approximation of a professional soccer player.
No one has looked good. Kinda, Thommy, and Russell keep getting caught on the ball. Shelton added randomly running into people into his skill set. Rosero is having his worst game in our shirt yet, and he's had one or two doozies prior.
The only one that doesn’t come out of this looking worse than when they went in, and he’ll likely lose his spot to Melia when the team takes the field vs San Jose.
What is the point in returning a 36 year old with now two full seasons of serious injury problems to the goal? Perhaps he's actually getting younger with PVs hyperbaric chambers? Oh, and add Agada and Pierre to the list of those who looked better coming out than going in. It was good just to see them get time, and Agada's goal is a sign that the fire has returned to his belly.
Wow, looking at the stats. Wow. I will ignore everything but the passing map, which also maps the average position on the field of players. What that map tells us, really, really, clearly, is that Vermes's got owned They set up to spring a trap. We set up to play into it. Credit to Vermes though, he didn't back down! A couple things stand out. Look at us: We tilt strongly left sided. Shelton wasn't much involved in the game, except in the thing that apparently makes him valuable, taking up positions that wreck havoc in the other sides shape. Toluca didn't realize it was working to devastating affect, however, and instead kept scoring goals. Shelton managed to complete one pass to Thommy, maybe one or two to Davis, there's a line thin that doesn't give me stats. Remember, the map only tracks starters, so this is not explained away by, oh we were trailing and desparate. Pulskamp, Rosero and Fontas had average positions in our defensive half. Davis looks to be right on the line, but maybe he makes four. Leibold played an average position above that of Shelton, or Felipe G or Kinda. Even with Thommy and backing up only JFR. Walter was playing near the top of the circle. FFS. When Radoja plays, he's near the bottom of that circle. When we're at our best, that is where our 6 plays.It's where Walter played against Chivas. That means Walter was 15 yards, on average, out of the position at which the 6 does us the most good. It's almost as if that leads to easy breakdowns of the SKC defense. Down the vacated middle. A couple yards doesn't mean much, but 15 or more yards? That's a tactic. Okay, so this clearly was the Vermes' plan. He put a team without a focal point, against a very good possession team, out with the pedal down. It's exactly what he did against Monterray, though that worked out. This means that when we lost the ball (they won 22 (to 7) tackles and 47 (to 38) duels, they were already in behind us, and we were defending facing our own goal, at a full sprint, which is where we are most vulnerable. This was not an accident. Toluca had scored 4 goals in each of their first two League's cups games in a 3-5-2. They switched to a much deeper lying 4-4-2 for us. The average position of their players had 4 in our end, none beyond the top of the center circle. We had 7 in their half, and 6 of those were above the top of the circle. Against Chivas, for reference, we had 5 people averaging in our defensive end, and Leibold just over the mid line. We were set up to stop them, and they scored, checks stats, zero. Against this forward leaning shape, Toluca played a very central game, only two players having an average position as much as half way between the side of the circle and touchline. Their setup appears to have been entirely to take what we insist on doing, and judo the holy ******** out of it, use our strengths to spank us with a rake. It's almost as if Ignacio Ambríz knew that Vermes would do exactly what he almost always does in setting up SKC, and then made a plan (in three days) of how to destroy that. I've stopped being mad at Rosero and Fontas, Shelton, etc. SKC was intentionally set up to play they way they did, which means we were set up to fail. This was all on Vermes.
Yikes! You're right about the passing map. One team set up defensively to clog the middle and givenup the wings, the other with its fullbacks playing higher than its wings. I was getting pissed at Leibold for always being out of posession but this was clearly tactical. Like you said one coach set a trap, the other is too dumb to see it or adjust. There was a tallent gap on the field but it was not 4-1.
Does anyone know the anything about the ref? Toluca was better than us. Maybe not by three goals, but by at least two. They were always going to win the game. So I'm not looking for a reason we lost. What I do wonder is how many times Kinda had to be kicked in the lower leg/foot and brought to the ground before the ref would call even a foul, much less give a card.
Exactly. You can't create that kind of tactical disadvantage and expect your players to overcome. That was a flat out horrible tactical plan, and it's cost him before in a similar situation (after we beat Toluca we got cocky against f'ing Monterray. Now, SKC was not going to win this tournament, and I thought one more week would have been about as much as we could have possibly hoped for. but one more week would have gotten Agada one week closer to game fit. OTOH, they probably were just better. They sure have a better manager.