Situation from game - what would you have done

Discussion in 'Referee' started by love to play, Sep 10, 2003.

  1. love to play

    love to play New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    NC
    Adult Mens open league game this past week end. In the 37th minute i whistle a PK on green team. Green team player was clearly a larger individual. He extended his arm out and threw the much smaller player off the ball. Clear PK.
    Green player then tells me that the call is bull sh&*. So, I show him yellow. He then turns to me and tells me to get the f*C$ out of his face. He gets straight red there. Player then strings together a rather nice series of curse words at me while he is walking off the field. Said player then refuses to leave the area and continues to curse at me and about the call.
    So, the question is this. I wrote up the incident and icluded it with the match report. I sent an email notice to the assignor. Would you also email details of the event to the league chairman ( The adult league in our area just seperated themselves from the youth league - so they now have their own disciplinary committee etc.)
    What would you do?
     
  2. galperin

    galperin Member

    Feb 1, 2001
    Maineville, OH
    I think if you put it in your match report your probably ok. You may want to suggest the league review that report closely, though.

    Sorry you got berated. I've been known to rant at refs throughout my playing days...so I apologize for this individual...since I sometimes act like a jackarse, just the way he did (although not quite as bad).
     
  3. love to play

    love to play New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    NC
    stuff happen

    Hey, it happens. Sometimes I even expect it. Clearly though here is an example to say to the players in this league that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. I hope it can happen. I took no personal offense from what was said. I have seen the particular player before and in fact he is usually a reasonable person. We all loose our cool at times but when it happens this badly a message needs to be sent in my opinion.
     
  4. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Verbal abuse may be considered assault. Send a copy of the report to the SRC. The state can take action against the player even if the league does not (assuming that this is a properly affiliated league).

    Not being there, I'm not sure what I'd do. However, in the past when confronted with similarly bellicose cads I have told the team manager that the game would not continue until the player in question had left the area. If the player doesn't leave then I leave and the league has to deal with a terminated game. That really gets their attention.

    An alternative approach was suggested to me last year and it works in some situations. Go deaf and move away, preferably off the field. Let the player spew and sputter a bit. If he comes off the field after you, then send him without question, but as long as he's swearing at the call and not at you, smile and stay calm. Typically a teammate of the headcase will step in to shut off the noise because they don't want to play short-handed for such a dumb reason. After 30-60 seconds, get the ball into the kicker's hands and take the PK.

    Goal or no goal, keep smiling. It confuses them.
     
  5. stevieb

    stevieb New Member

    Sep 6, 2003
    Colorado
    Nat, this is good advice. Too often we get ourselves into the middle of these things when the players are venting right after a call. I try (key word here is try 'cause I don't always seem to be able to do it) to let them do a little venting of steam that can be carded as dissent but then let them know that they've expressed their opinion and it's time to move on. When they don't take the hint (e.g. showing they can't hear) it is then time to check their vision with the YC.

    Your advice on an awarded PK is to move off the field is also good. If the player wants to follow you then it is clear he also wants the card. For some reason that boundary line will frequently act as an invisible barrier (like those dog collars and invisible fences!)
     
  6. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A reminder that the high-tolerance approach should only be used at the adult level.

    Someone posted this link on SOCREF-L about youth matches in Australia.
    Plan to tackle pitchside obscenities
     
  7. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003

    Where exactly do you draw the line on this? I worked my first Bu-18 travel game last weekend and ended up upset at myself for not being strict enough with a player. The team captain of white had gotten into on off ball scuffle with a red player and I caught an elbow being thrown by the white player. After conferencing with my AR to make sure nothing else had occured before the elbow (he said that the red player had been positioning his body in front of white but not making any real contact), I showed white a yellow. He adamently dissagreed with the call and in doing so literally got chest to chest with me. While not profane is his wording, he was clearly trying to intimidate me into changing my call. (the player was about 6-4 and built) and took forever to leave the field. Our league recuires players with a yellow card to be subbed. Two questions:1 should I have shown him red immediatly when he got chest to chest with me and 2 when later in the match he disputed other calls though never so agressively should I have displayed less tolerance and given a second yellow?

    He was also involved in a second incident that I will ask about on another thread. In retrospect, I feel like I probobly should have carded him as he kept creating management problems throughout the game? I know this is mostly a YHTBT situation but advice would be appreciated.
     
  8. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember my first B19 match. It was not pretty. It didn't help that I arrived expecting to be a linesman. ;)

    Basic procedures may help alleviate the potential for confrontation.
    1. Stop play for the foul.
    2. Tell the offended team to wait.
    3. Identify the player and approach him/her.
    4. Write (quickly) what you need in your book.
    5. Show the card.
    5a. (optional) "Coach, you want/need a sub."
    6. Move downfield to position yourself for the restart.
    7. Get the ball into play.

    If s/he follows you, yapping all the way, then they are asking for the second caution.

    In your case, the player has to leave the field. Put the onus on the coach to get the player off and the sub on after showing the card. "Coach, you need a sub." Then move in the opposite direction from the bench. The player now must make a decision whether he wants to return to the match later. :)
    I take my cues from the league. In a summer league of mostly U20's, I treat them as adults. Not much different in age, but in the U18 youth-affiliated league, I hold them to a stricter standard. Still, they get a little more leeway than a U14 player regarding language.
     
  9. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    I did most of what you suggested except the moving away part. If I follow you correctly you are saying that once I move away, I'm signalling that the discussion is over and any attempt to follow and continue it deserves a card.

    It seems that every time I move up in age level my first game is somewhat disasterous. Luckily I've managed to learn from my mistakes in the past and hopefully I won't be so slow with the cards for dissent in the future. At any rate, I appreciate the advice
     
  10. Tame Lion

    Tame Lion New Member

    Oct 10, 2002
    Southern California
    OIA Gesture

    As soon as he gets close to chest-to-chest, it is time to say, "Back off! If you don't, I will construe this action as an abusive gesture and you will be sent off!" You can take a step back yourself.
     
  11. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Sending him off was, I believe, the correct call. As referees we cannot accept this type of behaviour. If you hadn't sent him off then the next referee who makes a call he doesn't like will get the same treatment.

    Some people say that swearing is part of the game and I don't book players who say *@#*@#*@#*@#*@#*@# after missing a goal, for example but recently I had the pleasure of refereeing a touring Australian team (I am a New Zealander) and their coach advised me that Australia has a zero tolerance policy towards swearing in games. What a great game. If the Australian team was penalised they just turned around and got on with the game. The game flows faster and the aggro is almost non-existant. So you can play soccer without swearing like a trooper.

    If you feel threatened by a player then NEVER let the player get closer to you then the length of his legs. Once he is closer than that he can strike you.

    One way around this is to step backwards in a circular motion. This will take you outside the players strike area as you should end up facing his shoulders.

    I would certainly include the incident in the match report and I have found that approaching the board of the club (or their equivalent in the US) can bring results as the club can sanction the player. I have taken this approach once this year and the club, to their credit, suspended the player for three matches.

    Crowdie.
     
  12. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could it be a card? Yes. Should it be a card? The answer to that changes at every turn. Early, late, score, weather, phase of the moon, etc. Sometimes it takes longer for the oxygen to get to the player's brain. :)
    Be careful not to set a hard and fast rule for yourself. Judge every case on it's merits.
     
  13. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    Fair enough I didn't mean to sound as if I was locking myself into a rule. Its just that with regards to this game, in retrospect I should have sent the player off-it would have saved me a lot of grief, he deserved and would have avoided later trouble.

    I think the general solution is not to second guess myself. If I feel that the dissent deserved a card-it probably does
     
  14. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Headhunter,

    I'll give you an example...

    Last night, a high school game between 2 conference rivals that along with another school always battle for the conference crown. So this is one of 3 games that will likely determine who wins the conference. It's a well played but tough fought match and is 1-1 at the half.

    I had a player who happens to be the most skilled player for the home team that started giving me some grief for most calls. I told him a couple times to let me call the game and finally booked him for encroaching on a free kick.

    After he got dressed down by his coach and came back in, he had settled down. Then there was a somewhat controversial call (or non-call in this case) and he turned and virtually screamed at me. I was about 20 yards away from him. I turned a deaf ear for about 5 seconds and then I turned back toward him and was ready to pull the 2nd yellow when one of his teammates literally tackled him and got him to shut up.

    Could I have gone ahead and booked him, sure. But his team-mates controlled him the rest of the match and I didn't have to.

    So sometimes a little patience can pay off. Other times you have to go ahead and book 'em. But the reality of the situation is that you don't always know what's right until you're done -- particularly if you go the patience route.

    One point I'd make about your scenario is that you said you had problems with him throughout the game. As the problems continued to mount, I'd have become more and more likely to book him. So no problem with not showing him the 2nd card during the initial confrontation, but when he came back in, once he shows that he's going to continue causing problems, he's probably going to be gone the first opportunity I have to book him -- be it a hard foul, persistent, one too many words, whatever.

    Just like my little example above -- the player had been giving me some grief. I had already booked one player on the other team for blocking a free kick when he was just 2 yards away. I had also told this kid a couple times on free kicks to give the distance. This time, he was about 4 yards away and he didn't block it, but he tried to. Normally, if they are unsuccessful, I'll just remind them that if they're within 10 and block it, they're getting booked. But since he had given me problems already, I booked him. So it was sort of a cumulative thing that got him his caution.

    Sorry for the long winded post.
     
  15. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    no problem-I appreciate all the advice I can get here. Especially as I figure that judging these issues is the hardest part of the game. Anyone can learn what the laws say and most people can with experience work out how they are generally applied, but the issues of game management are so situational and immediate that for me at least they are the hardest to be sure that I have correctly judged
     
  16. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jun 25, 2001
    U.S.A.
    Jumped in late here. But, i would add that if the player refuses to leave the area and continues to abuse you, you should terminate the match and let teh elague figure it out. File the report with the proper wording and description. Don't take this type of abuse nor allow it to continue.
     
  17. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One technique that some of our refs use is to remind the captains at the coin flip that "your job is to keep their players under control so we don't need to. You know who your trouble makers are, help keep them under control."
     
  18. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    I can see how this might help in general, but in the particular incident, the troublemaker was the captain. This was part of why I was unsure how far to let him go because I generally do like to give the captains a little more leeway to "discuss" calls
     
  19. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    That's fine, as long as you remember he's called the captain, not the designated dissenter. "Chest to chest" doesn't sound like much of a discussion to me.
     

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