Should we try a 4-3-3?

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by LongDuckDong, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heaps has settled into this 4-4-2 diamond that's popular around the league. It had yielded decent results, but I find myself wondering why we haven't tried a 4-3-3 with our personnel.

    -------------- Sene ---------------
    Nguyen ------------------- Rowe
    ------- Feilhaber -- Joseph ------
    -------------- Simms -------------
    Tierney ------------------- Alston
    ------- Soares -- McCarthy ------

    Advantages:
    - we get all our midfield talent on the field
    - Cardenas and White would excel in this system as late game wing subs
    - Feilhaber moves to the middle, his best position
    - Joseph can to do less running
    - our weak defense has better cover on counter attacks
    - Nguyen gets more freedom to attack

    Thoughts?
     
  2. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

    Mar 31, 2009
    I've been hoping for a 1 man forward system since preseason. It makes complete sense with our personnel. Whether it be what you posted, or a 4-2-3-1, I think those formations would be far more solid defensively and create more opportunities in the attack. Moreno is not the #9 everyone was hoping for. He might turn into an average starter once he's fully fit, but he's not good enough to shape a lineup around. Most of our midfielders can play any of the attacking spots, which means they can constantly be switching, creating huge matchup problems for the opposition.

    Instead we're playing a formation that depends on strong attacking play from the outside backs, which we're not getting consistently enough.
     
  3. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Been saying it since the first game, we should absolutely move to a 1 out and out striker system. Especially since we've all found out how immobile and ineffective Shalrie has been with only 2 in the middle of midfield this year. Also, you forgot the most important advantage of all: No Brettschneider, ever!!!
     
  4. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    No, we should give the Moreno/Sene tandem more time to work.
     
  5. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gonna back that up? I among others, write out a few paragraphs explaining why we should move to the 4-3-3, and your response is "No"?

    Backup your opinion, or don't post it in the first place. ;)
     
  6. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sene could easily play as an attacking winger
     
  7. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd kinda like to see this
    .......................Moreno
    Senne.......................................Rowe
    ...........Nguyen........Feilhaber
    ........................Simms
    Tierney...................................Alston
    ................Soares.....Joseph
     
  8. burud111

    burud111 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    Connecticut
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this would be interesting, but I agree Sene on the left could prove fruitful.

    .......................Moreno
    Sene.......................................Nguyen
    ......................Cardenas
    ............Simms.........Feilhaber
    Tierney...................................Alston
    ................Soares.....Joseph
     
  9. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I think he has good skills, a great shot and that I think when he develops better understanding with the rest of the team, he'll start scoring with some regularity.

    Up to this point, he really hasn't had much playing time with the other starters, so I think we should commit some serious time to a guy who has a history of being a quality scorer.
     
  10. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sene would be more effective on the right so he could cut in and shoot
     
  11. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Moreno could be used as the 1 out and out striker, he holds the ball up well enough.
     
  12. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure whether we "should" try a 4-3-3, but pretty sure it isn't going to happen any time soon. Over the last six games (since May), we've been scoring goals at a pace that would put us at the very top of the league in terms of offense (2+ gpg). I can't imagine Heaps changing the formation that has started to produce goals (that is, dare we say it, "gelling"?).

    When Sims is back at 100%, Benny will go back to the right side in the skinny diamond and Rowe and Cardenas will be subs. There will be lots of times when people are out with injury or suspension, and Heaps will use Benny in the center, but it'll remain a 4-4-2 as long as Moreno and Sene are both healthy. If Moreno doesn't pan out after another month or so, then maybe Heaps looks at a different formation, but for now, he stays with the formation that has begun to produce goals.

    On another front, we can talk all we want about how Shalrie "should" go to center back, but Heaps clearly has no intention of moving him -- unless forced by injury or suspension to two of the three first choice CBs -- and even then, he may put Barnes at CB before moving Shalrie out of the midfield.
     
  13. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of the posters here have a general understanding of the game. Most have played at varying levels of competiton from Semi pro, college, High school, ODP etc, Some have also Refereed and coached at different levels as well. Not saying we have the same level experience as the coaching staff but most of us are not dummies. Its almost unanimous on this board that SJ is past his prime and can barely handle the role he is in now. He has slowed and struggles to mark or close down in the midfield. In fact I think the last game that was on tv one of the analyst mentioned Shalrie was not the same guy he was a few years ago. Yet what I find interesting is that Heaps and Co would rather have McCarthy out there than playing SJ who even at this point in his career is still a better player than McCarthy. I think the team would be better served developing Rowe, Cardenas and Fagundez with more PT in the midfield by moving SJ than playing and developing McCarthy.
     
  14. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well said. Also, "Heaps isn't going to try this so there's no point in talking about it" isn't a valid argument.
     
  15. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I think Diego would be great in either a 4-2-3-1 system or a 4-3-3 system as a winger. More opportunity to run at people.
     
  16. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. If you find "what if's" interesting, then by all means talk about them.

    I'm mildly interested in what people think "should" happen. But I'm more interested in trying to figure out what is happening and what will happen. I offer observations here not as arguments but rather as predictions -- I was noting that Heaps seems to value Shalrie as a mid and that it is not likely he'll abandon the 4-4-2 while the team is scoring 2+ goals per game.

    I'm interested in why things are the way they are -- why does Heaps like SJ as a mid? Is he seeing something we don't see? Is he stuck with SJ as a mid because of Shalrie's status, or because of the DP contract?
     
  17. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not questioning people's expertise -- just noting that what passes for near unanimous wisdom here is not shared by the coaching staff, and wondering why that is
    . . .
     
  18. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's all well and good, but how do you criticize a coach if you don't know what he's doing wrong? And to figure out what a coach is doing wrong, you have to know the alternatives.
     
  19. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely, that would be his ideal position
     
  20. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aye, lerrus tell ye... Ah dinnae eff yue noo moorre aboot fettba than a maan hue wassa greeet pleyur in hess dey, a maan hue has moore selverware than thu fayne Chayna section a Harrods, but soomethin tells me that it's nae lakely. Openn-yens are lake arses, everyone hass one, bu' a thu endathadey, yuh gut tae go weth thu maaan weth tha woorkrayte an pace. Nooona thet fancy-dan, drebbel all oovera place nonsense, we dinna need thet... Uh, what was the question again ?
     
    RevSoccerMV and KapeGuy repped this.
  21. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To support your contention with (unscientific) data, take the poll that addresses Shalrie-to-CB.
     
  22. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I think the simplest explanation for that question is that they see the players up close in games, practices and the locker room - and there's a lot of information there that factors into things.

    As for why he is sticking with Shalrie in the middle, I think the impact of his poise and intelligence are vastly underrated [lately].
     
  23. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree. Heaps is sticking with Shalrie in the middle because he's our highest payed player.

    At one point last season, Raul looked gassed for Schalke yet the coach kept giving him starts. Sometimes, that's just what you do. You feel like you have to keep your highly paid veterans on the pitch.

    The situation in Rev-land is worse because Heaps actually played with Shalrie. How do you tell a friend that you're getting demoted? It's not easy. I bet Ralston would have struggled with the decision as well.
     
  24. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Simple. Tell him that he's older and slower and that's the reasoning.
     
    cml1394 repped this.
  25. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that Shalrie will not be moving to the back line, and you've provided the answer why.

    4-3-3 puts our best talent out there. But, for the immediate future Heaps is going to see if Moreno can contribute.
     

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