Not necessarily better. Just more likely to be adopted. That doesn't make it better. It might make you quixotic, but whatever you want to do is fine. Attendance discussions really don't mean anything unless they're tied to the overall health of the league. And announced attendance figures are only a part of the overall picture of the league's health. The things monster mentioned are pretty heavy marks on the other side of the ledger, toward those who would say "Yeah, the announced attendance numbers are lower than last year's, but I think on balance the league has more positives than negatives." And therefore, worrying about whether or not we have playoffs or a two-legged final or four teams in the playoffs or six teams in the playoffs really is just minutiae.
If there was nothing to play for in the regular season other than the first-place championship, there would be created scores of meaningless games. By mid-July I would expect at least half of the teams to have no realistic hope.
No, quixotic would be actually putting some effort into accomplishing something next to impossible. I'm just posting my opinion on a message board. Anyway, did people call Louis Pasteur quixotic? Did they call Christopher Columbus quixotic? Did the Americans give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I do think that on balance the league has had more positives than negatives. But if the dip in attendance this year turns out to be the beginning of a trend, then don't be surprised if the overall balance begins to change. This takes us back to one of my earlier points... if the fans aren't happy, the league cannot be healthy.
Ah, but you see, that's where the US Cup comes in. And anyway, I've seen teams with no realistic hope of success actually turn things around and put themselves in contention, and even win. That's what makes it exciting. You just never know.
How does the US Open Cup make the final 12-14 regular season games meaningful to a team that has no hope of first place?
No, they called Don Quixote quixotic. Well, out of earshot, I'm guessing. Then why are we having this discussion? If. So much comes back to if. I doubt seriously it's the beginning of a downward trend for MLS, I think it's normal fluctuation, and there are pretty good reasons why attendance is down in certain markets, or not as good as it could be in certain markets. Kansas City's owners are putting in no effort. Chivas USA's owners seriously overestimated their ability to draw fans. I honestly think their front office is a nightmare from the top down and they have created a product that's hard to sell and have given the responsibility for selling it to people who can't sell. The Freddy Effect is much diminished over last year. As usually happens in America with any flash of light. Dallas has put no effort into the Cotton Bowl games, putting all its eggs in Frisco's basket (and since their attendance was so low to begin with, it's not up or down much this year). Frisco should do fairly well the rest of the year, but I don't know that it'll have a big effect on the final numbers. Columbus may be a result of their suckiness, I don't know. Colorado's way off. I am not sure KSE knows what they're doing - either that or AEG was inflating their previous numbers. Their stadium is a little far off for them to be tanking already. After years of sub-par teams and crap treatment, it may be that New England's fans are slow to come back around, and I can't say I blame them. I don't think the basement is going to drop out of MLS attendance anytime soon - we are where we are and about where we've always been looking at the 10-year history of the league. Year-to-year fluctuations usually have explanations, and they're usually not indicative of any grave crisis. Despite what people like Flannigan would like you to believe. Some folks just want to constantly predict disaster so they can say they told you so if it ever happens.
Oh, sorry, I thought you had read my earlier post (#7) about emphasizing the US Cup's importance. That way, even if you have no realistic chance of winning the "league" title, you still have a major trophy to play for. Lots of mid-table teams in the big Euro leagues chase after those when they are neither in contention for the league title nor fighting relegation. That way, the fans remain excited about the team for the remainder of the season.
Because upwards of 3,000 people usually attend US Open Cup matches, seeing as how they're not scheduled too far in advance and played mostly on Wednesdays and not in regular stadiums and against teams people have never heard of with a collection of n'er-do-wells on the opposition. You can't ignore the power of the US Open Cup. How you gonna do that, exactly? By saying it's important? MLS has been trying to tell people it's important for 10 years now. Well, they've been telling people it's important by not always having all of its teams participate, by playing games in places like Wheaton, Illinois on Wednesday nights and hardly ever having the games on television. But it's going to take time before people feel it's important. The tournament may be 91 years old, but for most folks it has existed since 1996. It's only major if you believe it's so. And, sadly, we're not at that point yet. Those cups have been important to those people for a lot longer than ours has. It could be argued that our cup is hardly important to soccer fans in general. It's hard to ask MLS fans to get excited about this tournament given its format and it's hard to ask casual fans or sometime fans to get excited about it given soccer's place in the sports hierarchy around here. And there aren't enough hardcores who really care if their team wins the Open Cup.
I've got a couple of minutes to kill..... Give me one-game playoffs. Give the home field to the higher seed. It's the only way to do it if you really want to reward teams for the regular season. And while I'm here...... the only thing that is really going to make the regular season more meaningful is stadiums full of fans that truly care about their team. You want to talk about a meaningless season? NCAA D-1 regular season basketball is about as useless as it gets; but those fans care, and so they attend. And suddenly, the games mean something.
Even better would be to have single-table, with seven playoff spots, so the Supporter Shield winner gets a bye in the first agg round. Hell, you could even keep it Conference if you are scared of scheduling, with the 7 spot being the "wild card"
It's a pretty important "if", though. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it should be neglected. After all, nothing in the history of the world had ever happened before it happened the first time. But it still happened, right? I hope your points end up being true. I guess you've successfully pushed this beyond just "let's wait until the end of the season" to "let's wait until the end of next season". I can wait. Who?
I happen to like the current format. It is working out just fine. Home-field advantage IS part of it. The home and away first rounds are fair, because it is based on a seeding principle with the higher seed getting the second leg at home. Which is an advantage b/c if the game goes to extra time you have that at home. Besides based on the seeding principle only 1 time in 8 series has the lower seeded team advanced. The confrence final is played at the field of the team with the better record. In those cases all 4 times the home team has won..surely an advantage. Statistcal results are in favor of the current format and as the sample size increases over time i would bet based on preliminary data that the % trend will hold at or near current levels. This format over the past two seasons has produced some of the most memorable games in MLS history, its compelling, it works, its fair. I see no reason to overhaul a system that works. Its the coaches and players job to take every game seriously, if they can't then they are not true profesionals. It souldn't be the leagues job to artifically motivate the players by changing the playoff format. As more teams enter the league making the playoffs wil become increasingly difficult and that natural progression will lead to more "meaningful" regular season games.
Stop that. Too deep for me. Anything's possible anytime. But the sun rises in the east, water is wet, acceleration is 9.8 metres per second squared, and politicians lie. Some things are what they appear to be, and when you have years of data and an understanding of the forces involved, you can feel pretty confident in distinguishing a blip from a disturbing trend. Now you're starting to think like an investor/operator. Never mind. Better you don't know.
When talking about attendance as a negative, it's important to look at other revenue streams. MLS is not dependant on this one season so a drop in attendance can be buffered by a jump in other revenues, especially when they include long-term deals. A length attendance drop is horrible. A short-term one can be not a big deal when other aspects of the business are improving. Also, your theory that the playoff system affects attendance can be counteracted by saying that the playoff system is a magnet for new sponsors.
I did read that. No matter how important the US Open Cup (you ought to learn its name if you want to tout it so much) is, it does nothing to make regular season games interesting. Thus it is irrelevant to a debate on the merits of one season/playoff format or another. What about the MLS team that by mid-July has no chance of reaching first place, and has 10-12 league matches to play after they get knocked out in their first cup match? How are those league matches meaningful in the absence of playoffs?
Don't you mean the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup? Yes, I thought you might bring that up. Certainly no format is going to take care of every single scenario. However, if the "Lamar Cup" is truly given its due, then MLS teams will stop sending their bench to play in those games, and will actually try to win it. Since their first round game will be against a non-MLS (read "lower-level") team, chances are pretty good they'll win it.
Can you be more specific? Because, I mean, how to improve the LHUSOC and how to make it more important to people has been debated on here forever.
Fantastic. But nothing about this addresses the problem of the months of meaningless league games that teams would play after they have no hope of finishing first, if there were no playoffs.
Boy, you just like to pick, pick, pick, don't you? No, I can't be more specific at this time, largely because I've already spent far too much work time on these boards. But suffice it to say that it can be done if MLS and US Soccer show a little imagination and cooperation with one another.
Plus, I think the phenomenon of MLS teams sending out bench guys in the USOC is slightly overstated. I would suggest one check the boxscores of recent USOC games involving MLS teams to be sure. And if MLS teams aren't actually trying to win, how the hell have they managed to go 78-27 (.743) against non-MLS teams since 1996 and win the tournament every year but one?
How about all those meaningless games for teams that are already easily qualified for the playoffs. Oh, that's right, the home advantage. Yippee! And how about the teams that make it to the playoffs and get eliminated right away? ======= Alright, I've let myself get pulled back in. I bid you adieu, once again.
I never said that MLS teams aren't trying to win the cup. I think the US Open Cup is great. But it doesn't have anything to do with the playoff format or lack thereof.