Should the US and Mexico pull an Australia??

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by PhillyQuakesFan, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. PhillyQuakesFan

    PhillyQuakesFan New Member

    Jun 25, 2007
    Delaware County, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm simply not convinced that the second-tier South American teams--Uruguay, Paraguay, and this time around, Chile--are any more talented than the US and Mexico (looking at the long term picture, you could include Ecuador and Colombia here as well). Yet they regularly outperform the top 2 CONCACAF sides at the World Cup, because they are far more battle-tested.

    Solution?? The US and Mexico need to seriously consider taking a page from Australia's book and joining CONMEBOL. Now I'm not saying that I'm 100% convinced this is the answer or even that it's a good move, but I do think it's something we need to at least consider.

    Obviously, there would need to be some concessions in place. Qualifying for the World Cup out of South America is considerably tougher than it is out of CONCACAF, obviously. CONMEBOL wants the US and Mexican TV money, and FIFA doesn't want to risk losing said money. If the parties decide that this is the way to go, I suggest an agreement between the USSF, FMF, FIFA, and CONMEBOL whereby the US and Mexico make the switch and CONMEBOL receives an additional 3.5 World Cup slots (from this year--1 from Africa, 2 from CONCACAF, .5 from Asia) for a total of 8.

    The US and Mexico would then be free to participate in the Copa America with their full-strength squads each time around. More importantly, they could take part in the South American qualification process. It's likely that the US and Mexico would occasionally fail to qualify, maybe every 5th tournament or so. But the rest of the time, I think you'd see both teams significantly improve their performance in the tournament. And with 8 of 12 teams qualifying, I'm of the belief that the US can consistently outperform Venezuela, Bolivia, Peru, and at least one other team.

    Again, like I said, it's not necessarily the answer. I'm just saying it's something we should consider.
     
  2. aarond23

    aarond23 Member+

    Feb 24, 2006
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Australia was beating its opponents 30-0...not until the CONCACAF teams are no threat to us do we need to think about leaving.
     
  3. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't the Socceroos run to Asia for an easy way ticket to the World Cup? No disrespect to Australia, but it seems like the case.
     
  4. MeastFootball

    MeastFootball New Member

    Sep 2, 2009
    Virginia
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why aren't we beating Barbados by that score? :p
     
  5. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ya, but they caught a few breaks. A fair result would have been more like 27-0.
     
  6. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    This.

    Honduras was beating us at home...

    Costa Rica dominated us there...

    El Salvador always tests us...

    I just don't think CONMEBOL is the answer, and there is no way if only us and Mexico left that they would give us an extra 3.5 spots...they would probably only give 2.

    If you think qualifying for the WC is a nail-biting process now, just imagine what it would be like if we had to qualify out of CONMEBOL...I'm not even sure we could do it to be honest, not consistently anyway.
     
  7. BS49

    BS49 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Drinking a beer
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Those teams you mentioned have underachieved even more than the US and Mexico. This is the first time in like 20 years that either one of Uruguay, Paraguay, or Chile have made it to the second round. I believe Uruguay had not even won in the last 14 world cup games. Mexico has a good record against non-Brazil or Argentina South American teams. I would like to have them join conferences though. So 8 1/2 spots for all of the Americas.
     
  8. MetroMatt

    MetroMatt Member

    Sep 21, 2000
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I think that would be a terrible idea. Why go from a virtual World Cup lock to making qualification very much in doubt? I fully agree that better competition makes you better but I'd rather qualify every cycle and risk it than go 8, 12 years between World Cups.
     
  9. ty webb

    ty webb Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    NYC
    With RoboBob or a RoboBob like USSF clone, ANY away game in CONCACAF will remain very difficult for us. We look useless against marginal sides on the road in CONCACAF. The teams in SA would make us look even more terrible and also provide a huge challenge to us at home.

    With our current setup, I would much prefer the automatic (not necessarily like RoboBob's performance to get us to 2010) qualification to the WC now until eternity.

    No thanks.
     
  10. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    May 29, 2010
    McAllen, TX
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would USA and Mexico swap over to Conmebol? Conmebol is South American countries and the US and Mexico geographically don't belong there. If its to better the team....well why is Peru, Bolivia and Venezuela not improving? After all they play against Argentina and Brazil! Changing over won't make us better.
     
  11. Plan B

    Plan B New Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Chicago
    Yeah, really...us, Mexico, and, so long as they are seeded away from each other, Japan and South Korea are almost the first nations you could book for the finals at this point.

    If we could trade the Gold Cup and Copa America for an expanded Hemisphere tourney that was FIFA-sanctioned and played quadrennially a la the Euros, that would be great, esp if we had to qualify for it. It won't happen but that would be ideal -- two years geared toward that, then two years geared toward the WC; most every game means something and is competitive. I'm not holding my breath of course. :D
     
  12. TFC USA

    TFC USA New Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    This is such a horrible idea.

    Have you watched our qualifying runs? We're struggling with motherf*cking Trinidad and Tobago on the road and you're entertaining the idea of joining South America?
     
  13. ImNumberTen

    ImNumberTen Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like the idea, either, but the Bob-bashing is unnecessary. And wrong.

    I guess you have a coach in mind who by his mere presence will improve the skills of American players and make them world class? (Rhetorical question not intended to hijack the thread so don't bother to reply. We both know where we stand.)
     
  14. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Never would happen.
     
  15. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    It maybe hard to qualify out of CONMEBOL, but doesn't mean we cannot qualify. We have more fight, passion, motivation, and enough skill than that.
     
  16. BS49

    BS49 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Drinking a beer
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Venezuela are improving vastly and Peru had a great team in the 70's. Bolivia not so much. Teams go up and down. Just look at France and Italy. This fallacy that the US will always keep improving is wrong. I believe this is the golden generation for them with Donovan, Dempsey, Howard, and Oneywu. After they are gone I only see Bradley that is a sure thing starter. I foresee a drop in quality and possible struggle in qualification. Remember that if Honduras does not choke at home against you guys you would of had to beat Costa Rica at home and you guys were down 2-0. And all this about winning the qualifying group is ridiculous because Mexico could have beaten T&T if it really cared about winning the group. Winning the group gives you sht in the World Cup.
     
  17. TrojanMan

    TrojanMan New Member

    Jun 18, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Qualifying for the WC is what has pushed the momentum if the USMNT over the past 2 decades. If we were to join CONMEBOL and not qualify for the WC, that momentum will die down and if we didn't qualify for a few WC's in a row, the momentum will be lost. For the first 2 decades of my life soccer was a kids game and I'd watch the WC in spanish because the USMNT never qualified for the WC.

    The US has made it to 6 straight WC's and has advanced out of the group stage 3 times. I didn't like watching the USMNT lose either but at least they were there and the hype and media attention is good for the future of the USMNT.
     
  18. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Reads like a classic never give the U.S. an ounce of respect post. We have:

    - U.S. beat Honduras because Honduras "choked."

    - Mexico gets a free pass against T&T because they didn't care.

    - U.S., on the other hand, does not get a free pass against Costa Rica despite that they'd already qualified and that the team was coping with the news of the Davies accident.

    - Generally, you seem to be saying a few bounces differently and the U.S. might not have qualified for South Africa. Now, gosh, couldn't we say the same thing about Mexico or Honduras, or did those two teams finish the hex with a significantly larger number of points than the U.S.?

    :p
     
  19. ty webb

    ty webb Member

    Aug 28, 2005
    NYC
    I didn't say we could hire a coach that would "by his mere presence will improve the skills of American players and make them world class." I do like the straw man though.

    I think finding a coach that can get the team prepared to not give up early goals throughout the cycle and a coach who can select the best players to start the game, particularly in big games, is not an insurmountable task.
     
  20. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    hence why I said "not consistently"...

    let me put it this way, if they gave CONMEBOL 3.5 extra spots, I think we'd qualify 80% of the time. If they only gave us 2 extra spots, I think we'd qualify on average every other WC. Uruguay went to a playoff with Costa Rica after a LONG qualifying campaign and made them look bad, I watched both matches. Think of how good they've looked compared to the rest of the world in this WC.

    I'm just saying I don't have tons of confidence, because our guys look very bad when we play away to "minnows" <-- who aren't nearly as good in comparison to the "minnows" of SA (Bolivia, Peru, Venezuela).

    FIFA would never give CONMEBOL 3.5 extra spots if we joined them, they would give them 2.
     
  21. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Don't sweat BS49's posts. He's a Mexico troll who regularly cruises the the USMNT boards for a little rough trade. Likes to get smacked around a little.
     
  22. big4soccer17

    big4soccer17 Member

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    we probably wouldnt make the world cup if we compete with the likes of brazil, argentina, uruguay, paraguay and maybe even chile....so no, we stay in concacaf, we remain favorites...bad idea.
     
  23. BS49

    BS49 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Drinking a beer
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Call me a troll if you want but just giving my 2 cents. I do not dislike the USMNT and was actually rooting for them because it helps soccer grow in this country and I wanted ESPN rewarded for doing such a great job pushing this World Cup. It was a huge disappointment to not beat Ghana and Gulati is right. It was not a good world cup performance by the US (and for Mexico for that matter). They were in one of the easiest groups in the tourny but needed a gifted goal by Green to tie England, then they were down 2-0 to Slovenia and needed a very late goal to get one point there, then they barely beat Algeria on a stoppage time goal only because Algeria pushed forward to try to win. If Algeria needed a draw the US would have been out in group play. However it was the dramatics that captivated the US television audience.
     
  24. 1MADDOG

    1MADDOG New Member

    Aug 15, 2000
    DC
    To those that don't know, Uruguay has traditionally played all out defense. They rarely go out on the offensive. Trust me though, Uruguay has players that are more then technical enough to keep up with Argentina or Brazil. THey (and probably Paraguay and Ecuador, but not soo much) are the only team in SA that is very disiplined with the counter, but can get extremely technical and dominate a game with out a moments notice. THey out classed Costa Rica easily.

    Bolivia, one of South Americas worse teams, have over 12 players playing in 1st division european leagues, and just as many playing in 2nd div teams in europe. Venezuela is the only other country that has less players playing in Europe. So yeah, the minnows of SA are not going to be Minnows for USA or Mexico. Going back to Bolivia, I believe USA has never beaten them, and Mexico has only face their 3rd tier nats team in the last 5 years. Didn't Peru Kill Mexico in Cali 4-0 like 5 years ago? USA and Mexico rarely ever faced a solid Ecuadorean or Colombian 1st team. The technicallity in South America is significantly higher there tehn anywhere around the world. To think we'd qualify 80% of the time is exagertated. Our technicality is barely enough to get passed Mexico, and now we want to play teams that are more technical then Mexico?

    Let MLS grow and build the USA team. Single entity will not last forever, and level of play will increase when it's gone. Let's get USA qualified and have happy fans cheer for 4+ games during the greatest sporting event in the world. If we join Commebol, it may be 8+ years until our fans gets a chance to cheer for the nats in a world cup. Maybe. If playing against these teams is important, then US should consider Copa America.

    THis will never happen. You want to increase the level of play? Then go out and support your local MLS team. The more we watch, the closer we are to ridding the annoying (but necessary) single entity structure.
     
  25. TFC USA

    TFC USA New Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    You're an obvious troll but I guess you're right about our Slovenia and Algeria performances. Whether we bitch about the refs or not the Slovenia performance was awful until the Donovan goal got us back in it.

    Still, we are way better than Mexico.
     

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