By that, I mean the creative, central hub and conduit of the team expected to receive and redistribute the ball creatively and penetratively on a consistent basis all season long? Rooney's short passing is erratic at best and his eye for the threaded through ball along the ground has declined over the years. His biggest strength as a pseudo #10 was always the fact he was an #8, #9 and #10 all rolled into one who could go with or progress the play no matter where he was positioned, as opposed to proper #10's who, for the most part, look like rabbits in headlights when asked to do much else but be the creative hub.That, and the fact that he scores an insane amount of goals for the role, outside of Messi, who is hard to categorize at the best of times, Rooney has to be up there as the highest scoring #10 in world football, so that should also factor into your consideration as any #10 we could get in would be doing well to score even half the amount in a season that Rooney will get you from the position. VoteNdiscuss.
No but we need to upgrade with a player who can hold up on his own little quality attributes when comparing, a A level talent because whoever we play behind the 9 will probably be the most important player in the setup. Rooney to play as 11/9 if that happens. -----Nani----Hazard------Young/Welbeck --------------Rooney------------ Is probably the best scenario we can hope for, in such a team Young final third productivity would be more evident, except for his crosses perhaps.
I'll vote no because 1) He isn't consistent enough with his touch and passing to be #10 2) He's capable of scoring bucket loads of goals as #9 3) Moving him up to #9 gives United another spot in the team to use wisely rolleyes That being said it won't happen because 1) United never play with 1 striker (RVN and Veron days notwithstanding) 2) Welbeck is the new 9 and will keep on playing 3) United won't sign another midfielder And even if it did happen it probably wouldn't work out the way I wanted it to because it looks like Hazard won't be joining United, meaning no elite wing-forward and I've yet to see a 433/4231 work without at least one elite/unplayable wing-forward. Oh well.
Nani isn't unplayable by default because too many conditions need to be met for him to be unplayable: A) Confidence B) If not that, he needs to be surrounded by clever, technical players. C) If not that he needs a free role Etc etc
Same with any player, put Messi in winger role and ask him to track back and give him our midfield or Ronaldo. Nani is better than any other winger out there, including much older Robben Ribery or younger Hazard. For Nani to be unplayable in a 4321 or 433, we actually need to play that formation and we need to start him as wingforward, just see what he can create with one player on a similar thought process in Welbeck. Nani is one of the best wing forwards in the game at the moment, you cant get much elite than him currently unless you can get Messi/Ronaldo.
I think the biggest blight on Nani is he doesn't have the sense of direction toward goal you associate with seriously unplayable wide men. They all storm toward goal with a serious sense of purpose, and that leads opposing sides to panic and scurry around trying to stop the thunderbolt. Nani dithers a lot even when at the top of his game and his goals, then,. tend to be peaches from 20-25yards out, which is an incredibly difficult range to maintain consistent scoring from. Nani needs that thunderous charge toward goal. Ronaldo(here), Messi on the wing, Hazard, Sanchez (wide), Robben are the types I'm talking about who when they get/got the ball, the other side panics immediately cos they know what's coming. Nani has the skill for that, but not the same sense of purpose.
Robben has been lambasted all season for his play in the Bundesliga, very predictable and spoils more than makes, he isnt the type you are talking about. But Ronaldo, Messi and Sanchez have a supporting cast in place that enables them to be more dangerous, despite that Sanchez has hardly been that good (and I rate him very high, see transfer threads and my wishes sigh), whenever Nani has had a little bit of it he has been extremely dangerous. Hazard is the main player and threat for Lille, whole team works for him like we do for Rooney.
So many things wrong with what you just said... 1) Messi is unplayable anywhere in the opposition's half 2) Nani is nothing like Ribery , Robben or Hazard and shouldn't be compared to them 3) If given the choice between a misused Ronaldo or a misused Nani I know what I'd choose so why you would bring him up I will never know...
1 3 He isnt on that level but they would be less dangerous in more constrained roles where teams arent built around them. 2. He is better than those 3 and I support Bayern and want Hazard, why isnt he like them by the way?
Actually had Robben Ribery Nani debate here before, and even SM only placed Robben over Nani, which I wouldnt as Robben doesnt have the unpredictablity of Nani.
He is not "better" than any of the people you mentioned. He may have more tools to use but he rarely ever uses them all (or at least a few of them) effectively enough. As for your question he's nothing like them because as DS said, he's much too ponderous on the ball. He has the skill and pace to be a Ribery or Robben but he plays like a wide-playmaker with the decision making of a winger. In other words, he's a hot mess.
Definitely dont agree, have you seen Robben decision making (if only this season) ? And DS said he should be a more direct threat, a more direct goal threat, he never said ponderous on the ball at all and in that sense DS Hazard isnt one either, he pretty much plays like Nani, creates play and gets at the end of one.
dith·er (d r). n. A state of indecisive agitation. intr.v. dith·ered, dith·er·ing, dith·ers. To be nervously irresolute in acting or doing. pon·der Verb: Think about (something) carefully, esp. before deciding or concluding. I may have used the wrong word in ponderous but that would be nitpicking to the extreme. You know darn well what I meant and you know I'm right.
Robben has a career behind him that puts him in that bracket. He hasn't been great this season, but to think it anything other than a blip is unwise. He's capable of being the player I mentioned when on form, even now. And he can't be ruled out of being that player at the Euros, either. Hazard carries clear and present danger near every time he is on the ball whether with a run to goal, or the intent to play others in or play off them. He has the consistent potency to always be a concern whereas Nani, even at his best, is a mixed bag with regard to what he will do at any given moment. It's hard to be unplayable when you aren't consistently striving to make the play.
Sorry dont agree Nani himself is such a threat that could create something out of nothing, but Hazard is the main player for Lille and everything goes from him so he can waste a few and create a few, Nani doesnt play that role for us, its Rooney. And I maintain, Ribery Robben (bayern has an advantage of having both and an good midfield) are not better than Nani and neither is Hazard (not yet atleast)
I'm going with No. I think given the right players around him, he'd be good to very good. But the likelihood that that will happen is small so he'll probably be average and frustrating. To me, it makes more sense to use Rooney as a psuedo 9. I think when he has a proper 10 with him, his level of play is elevated and for my money, it is a lot easier for us to get a 10 that can make us and Rooney better than to get the other pieces to optimize Rooney for a role he seems less than ideal for in any case.
Your first sentence has nothing, nothing, to do with anything I've said. That's not even being disputed. what is, in simple terms is: Player gets ball>Player immediately looks for the most dangerous option>Player uses it, be it to run directly to goal, lay off for one-two, or for penetrative pass> Player completes objective, or fails whilst trying to> Player rinses and repeats all game, all season long. The second part of your first paragraph also has nothing to do with what I've said. My point is purely about the player and his relationship and objective with (and without) the ball. The last paragraph still doesn't focus on what I'm taking about. Nani's intent is not remotely similar to the aforementioned players whether he has great or shoddy team-mates around him. Again, it's about him, the ball, and his objective every time he touches the ball.
Yes. I think it makes more sense to let Danny to continue to develop in a 9 role, and see what happens with the Rooney - Welbeck partnership. I doubt we could get another 10 of Rooneys quality easily. And Rooney is a cash-cow that we need to keep milking. I strongly think its hard to assess Rooney's performance given the quality of midfield around him in a technical / creative sense. I also think if we were to get another 10, that 10 would simply have the same issues Rooney does. ------------------------Rooney------------------- Young/Welbeck-----New 10--------------Nani ---------------Carrick----Scholes/Giggs-------- There is little different in that from this season IMHO. That midfield is still there for anyone with the quality and willpower to have its way with us and start bombarding our defence. On a bad day our attack will break down as our midfield is unable to reliably advance the ball through their midfield, and allow us to threaten their goal with serious intent. Nani / Young / Welbeck and CM are all capable of being ineffective in attack on a bad day. As long as the defence are covering our striking pair, they can allow our CM and wide players to peter out the attack. It would make more sense to get a technical / creative / threatening WF, and a competent CM to allow our attack to become cohesive and to play a more sane system. ------------------------Welbeck----------------- Hazard---------------Rooney---------------Nani / Young / Valencia ----------------Carrick-----Arteta--------------- We are able to play a 4-2-3-1 properly, as we have a CM which can shield reliably out of possession, but is technical enough to facilitate penetrating attacks in conjunction with the 4 and a FB. With a touch more quality in WF with Hazard, we can depend on at least 3 of the 4 being dangerous. If Nani is in form, and Rooney-Welbeck is firing, that is an attack that can interchange and play off each other to penetrate, but also each of the 4 is intimidating in a 1v1. Arteta I selected not because we can have him perse, but simply because any CM of reasonable quality and technical ability improves our CM significantly for games where Scholes cannot play, or his deficits put us at risk.
I voted "depends on the alternative" and here is why. To me, it all really depends on who we sign. If reports are to be believed, Hazard is not coming here. We are simply not sure whether who we sign, if we sign anyone at all, will be ready to take over the reigns of our attack right from the off. If it is someone from a country who needs to acclimatize to the Prem, then we have to go with Rooney, at least initially. Depending on who we sign in midfield will finalize the deal for Rooney, but IMHO, I have trouble seeing Fergie move away from the 4-4-2 with Rooney and Welbs up front regardless of who is signed. On the other subject, I am not sure why so many people are clamoring for the offensive reigns to be given to Nani. He has yet to earn it and while he has had some good highs, in my opinion, his best is merely comparable to Valencia's best.
For the record, I'd take Ribery and Robben over Nani. The debate at the time was a season or so ago when Ribery was injured and looked off. He regained his form and upped his game. Best in his position in Europe this season, without question (without counting Ronaldo there I suppose) Nani is too erratic. With Robben you know what you get and 9 out of 10 times it will stikk work whereas with Ribery, his bag of tricks are more concentrated and always likely to result, if not a goal on his own, benefiting those around him. Your assessment of Robben is off. 12 goals and 6 assists in only 24 matches domestically this season are enough to suggest he is more than not, capable and efficient, whether you think his style is unilateral or not. last season, even more impressive. 14 matches only, 12 goals, 10 assists. That's the whole point. Nani has the tools but he doesn't use them because his brain/sense is simply underdeveloped. It's hard to explain why, given his experience and the amount of players around him to learn from but that's the reality.
Am I alone in thinking that while Rooney does have the capacity to be a #8, #9 or #10, he doesn't really blend those capabilities very much? I feel like he's solid in each of those areas, but tends to utilise his skill set according to the role, rather than being dynamic and bringing out tools to adapt what's happening around him. The biggest example that comes to mind is the first season after Ronaldo left. He performed excellently as our #9 and had a brilliant season, but if I'd never watched him before that, I'd probably have no idea that he was a capable second striker or playmaker.
Depends on what the alternative is. Im not totally against him in the role because I do believe if we have some serious quality coming from 3 other positions, his short comings can be over looked. I think there was a short preview to what he could look like if others are carrying the burden. Then you throw Welbeck into the equation. As he develops and he becomes more ruthless in front of goal, you have to smile thinking about the potential between the two of them if Welbeck ends up the player we all want and know he can be. If we get a Hazard\Goetze\Eriksen player in the window, that hopefully starts the process in which we dont have to rely as much on Wayne Rooney for our attack. I'd be happy with DDG; Rafael, Vidic, Rio, Evra/newLB; Nani, Carrick, Serious Threat, H/G/E; Rooney, Welbeck "Serious threat" could be Cleverly if healthy and lives up to the impossible reputation he's built up in such a short time. It could be Anderson if he finally gets his shit together, it could be a Strootman/Hernanes type signing [ ] I'd hope to see us attack in similar fashion [but more controlled] to how we looked in the first month or so of the campaign. The players selected as wide options given a free role, and exchanging positions with the selected front pair. Rooney seemed to to more certain, more confident with the movement that was produced by the rest of the front 6. You also consider Rooney's habit/desire/instinct of playing from the left side of the field a little more often. In the formation I posted above, that opens up potential avenues of link up play between Rooney and say Hazard who could play from the left, either inside-out or vice versa. In conclusion, I'd keep him in the role he's currently playing only if we could adjust our style of play, and make the necessary signings to essentially slowly relieve Wayne Rooney of not just the role, but the pressure and expectation placed on him for so long. It would see him still play a role, because as DS said the goals he scores [among other things] are simply to crucial to us during this period of transition. But would see the responsibilities distributed evenly between the front attacking 4 or 5. The versatility of most of the players we have at our disposal facilitates such play.