I am starting this discussion in light of the recent Man U. tour of USA that sold out two stadium in a matter of minutes and the other games are almost sold out as well. This proves to me that the soccer fans are here present among us, willing to pay for expensive tickets even in the middle of the week as is the Thursday game on July 31 at Giants stadium. Seems to me that there are many fans who will ONLY go to the games if they can watch some of the best soccer . I was thinking wondering what would it take for MLS to achive something close to this with their games. ? There are many things to consider here. - player salaries and transfer fees - number of foreign players - tv contract and advertisment - and ratings would the fans come and sell out this stadiums every game ? would MLS gain the respect of the fans ,media and the rest of the world? .. .what would it take for this to happen and could it work ? Could MLS survive long term? How does MLS view this Man U tour . Do this sell outs mean anything to the MLS bosses, to their investors, what goes thru their minds seein all this? is this a good things for MLS ? is it worth to even consider making drastical changes at this point, some will say MLS is fine as is. I have my own opinion on this but i will wait for some of your responses.
First thing you need to remember is the rarity of Man U. games in America. There is a great demand to see these games. Also, people want to see the best. Man U. is arguably the best (I shudder in saying that). Therefore it is no surprise to see these games sell out. So does MLS need to make changes? I don't think so. The talent level has increased every year, especially this year. SSS stadiums are coming along. MLS may never have the 60,000 a game like Man U. because MLS doesn't have the best players in the world. People respect longevity. Look at the Arena League. After about 17 years (?) it finally has a big TV deal and is doing reasonably well. MLS needs to continue to keep plugging away and improving every year. There is no quick fix to this.
Certainly a good question... Man, what a gamble! The NASL all over again! You'd need, easily, 2 or 3 Billion to raise the level of pay to attract the best players. You couldn't play is smaller stadiums, you'd need to atract at least 50,00 per game to pay the overhead. You can't buy TV ratings. So you'd have to bet that enough people would be willing to watch, after you put up the bucks to buy the TV time. I'm sure that pouring Billions into soccer in the US would be great, and if you know anyone rich (and stupid) enough to open their wallets like that, let's do it! But to consider the reality of the situation, MLS seems to have found what works for them. They're conservative and patient and it's starting to show progress. The people who are buying all the Man U tickets are never going to go to a MLS, game even if the tickets were free. Anybody willing to pay that kind of money for tickets to a meaningless, lethargic, exhibition game is obviously attracted to the flashy aura of the team. (In a way, it kind of reminds me of the Rolling Stones tours. Every tour is the last one. People go because they're told that they might never get the chance again.) Many Man U ticket buyers are immigrants who were raised on the team and are there to celebrate the memories of their youth. I think that Man U could tour every few years and make a ton of bucks. But if they tried to do it more often, the games might lose their appeal. MLS can't compete with that and shouldn't even try.
Re: Certainly a good question... The EPL doesn't even average that many people. They average about 35,000. Man U. averages 67,000 and they are way ahead of everyone else. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance?league=ENG.1&year=2002&cc=5901 It's in the TV ratings. They have huge TV deals over there. Therefore, smaller stadiums are better now because if you have ticket demand and people are turned away at the gate, they will have to watch the game on TV thus helping the TV ratings.
uh, is drastical a word? I think MLS needs all their teams to get into small stadiums that hold around 30,000 max, so that they can have good crowd noise, but still be able to hold friendlies there too. Also being able to have concerts at these stadiums might pick up some extra revenue for the stadium owners.......... just a thought........ Also I think the MLS should sell off around 4-8 top stars a year to increase the money coming in, and also have more Americans playing overseas.
We need ticket demand right now. We don't need teams playing in half empty stadiums that only fill up a few times a year. What good will that do? Players like Donovan and DMB are more valuable here rather than Europe. How does the money that they would be sold for replace the kind of excitment they create on the field? 4-8 players a year? MLS would be depleted in 3 years.
Ignoring the one-time, circus appeal of the Man U tour: MLS will reach many of those Man U posers/fans who do not come to MLS games by staying with the same approach that MLS has taken since Garber took office. That is - sell tickets, develop US players and be patient. If MLS can place 1/2 - 3/4 of the 2006 WC squad to duplicate the 2002 WC success, that will be another big step. MLS is about to open the Home Depot Center, God willing is on the cusp of getting something done in Dallas and Metroland. Those two deals should cement the future of the league. MLS has their own company set up to purchase and sell TV rights and promote tours. MLS is doing everything right. You could argue that they are not doing everything they can - but what they are doing, they are doing right. Its the tortise and the hare. The NASL was the hare. The short cut approach is expensive and risky. Doing things right but slowly may take longer but increases your odds. Good point about Arena Football. MLS has been around for 8 years now. The NASL was around for 17 years I believe (1967-1984). Check and see how the NASL was doing 8 years in to their life span.
MLS needs time and people need to support the MLS teams. Nice to see so many people buying tickets for a meaningless game like this, but it doesn't do sh!t for MLS. And, to be honest... people who do not support their own but rather 'support' something bigger, better and further away don't deserve to get any football whatsoever. 'Supporting' Real Madrid or Man Utd because of their quality has nothing to do with being a supporter. Support your own... maybe you'll never see any succes... but maybe just once you will. And no feeling in the world can top that. As soon as people realize that and MLS builds some expandable SSSs (8000 people in a 60k stadium will never give a positive atmosphere or scenery)... things will get better.
It is just the novelty factor. If Man U played here on a regular basis they wouldn't sell out all there games. Hell, if they played all of there games in one city on this tour I bet they wouldn't sell out all their games, at least not at the same rate anyways. They are going to three different cities just to make it a novelty factor, going to see something that you can't see everyday.
Re: Certainly a good question... Gotta love gross generalizations with little factual basis. While many people who bought tickets to the ManU games are not MLS fans and don't go to games, I'm sure many ticket purchasers are in fact MLS fans. Many are soccer fans who do support MLS and they shouldn't be criticized for also deciding to watch some of the world's best players, even if it is only an exhibition. What is so wrong with an American soccer fan, especially a fan of ManU, Barcelona, Celtic, or Juventus, who anticipates little chance of getting to Europe to see a match, wanting to go to these games? You make it sound like you have to choose between MLS and European leagues/clubs. We don't have to choose. We can have both. And you also seem to forget that many U.S. fans don't have a MLS team to support anyways. The people of Seattle, and to a lesser extent Philadelphia, don't go to MLS games because they don't have an MLS team. Why is it so terrible for them to go to the soccer games that come to town? By not going, do they help MLS? By not going, do they improve the chance of MLS coming to their town? I can't see how. "And many ticket purchasers are immigrants," you say. Even if true, what's wrong with that. Yes, there are some (maybe even many) immigrants, ethnic minorities, etc. who are Eurosnobs or Mexico-snobs or whatever. But there's also white middle-class apple-pie Americans who are Eurosnobs. What you fail to mention is that there are immigrants, ethnic minorities, etc. who support MLS and want to see soccer in America grow and improve. For the record, I didn't get tickets to any games becuase the Philly tickets sold out too quickly. But I would have gone and not felt the least bit guilty. And I'm not an immigrant. I am not a Eurosnob. I do go to MLS games. I do watch MLS games on TV. I was a season-ticket holder for my local A-League team before it folded. Your self-righteous judgements, stereotypes, and inaccurate generalizations are misguided and uncalled for.
I am very impressed with all the views and points made so far, especialy encouraging to read that everyone agrees MLS is doing the right things. I strongly believe if MLS would try to make drastic changes they would fail miserably. The one thing that hurts , when I find myself with a group of euro-snubs ( yes friends) soccer intelectuals if you may, but would never attend an MLS game or follow the league. Sometimes i feel like i am on a different planet, but thanks to BigSoccer here i feel at home. I wonder how long will it take for MLS to become part of the american culture.
Flying Weasel, chill out.... And stop quoting me out of context. The complete sentence is... "Many Man U ticket buyers are immigrants who were raised on the team and are there to celebrate the memories of their youth." I've got nothing against immigrants. Really. Honest. But the point that I'm making (and nearly everybody else except you is making) is that the Man U tour shouldn't make the MLS change what they're doing.
Okay, so "it doesn't do sh!t for MLS." That still doesn't tell me why it's wrong for people to go to these games. And in cities without MLS teams, these games might do nothing, but they might also encourage a potential owner/investor. Certainly having a poor turnout won't encourage that potential owner/investor--it might make no difference at all, but a poor turnout could never improve the chances of a city getting a MLS team or the MLS getting a new owner/investor. You make it sound like an American has to choose between supporting an MLS team and a club from elswhere in the world. Supporting a club from another country doesn't necessarily indicate ignoring MLS. Many of us support the MLS and also have favorite teams around the world. Remember, the MLS is only 7 years old, and many American soccer fans supported clubs from other countries for many years before we had MLS, and they now also support MLS. Remember that many American soccer fans still do not have an MLS team in their area. I agree that the ManU tour does next to nothing for MLS, but does it hurt MLS? And I agree with many of the above posts that MLS does not need to anything drastic. I agree that the ManU tour should not change what MLS is doing. Stay the course. Have patience. Growth is a gradual process. The league is doing many things right. It is making progress. Northside Rovers' post was an encouraging summary of where things stand. As I alreay said, I agree even though I hadn't made that clear in my earlier post. Perhaps I did get off-track a bit. However, your earlier post certainly seemed to imply that the people going to the ManU matches are not current or potential MLS fans ("The people who are buying all the Man U tickets are never going to go to a MLS, game even if the tickets were free."). I disagree. Some already are MLS fans. Some will become MLS fans. And some sadly will never give it a fair chance. MLS shouldn't change what is doing, but it also shouldn't see these games as a great threat or write-off the people who go to these games as people not worth marketing to because they will never support the MLS. It's in that sense that I find my response to your comments somewhat relevant to the discussion.
This is definitely the case. My wife and I have some friends who moved here 4 or 5 years ago from Manchester. They were born and raised in Manchester and both of them grew up going to games with their father. They don't support MLS because they are busy with kids' activities, etc. like a lot of us. They catch the odd game on TV. They are going to see 2 of the ManU games -- New Jersey and Philly. Eventually, when their kids are not taking so much time, will they start supporting an MLS team -- hard to tell. Maybe. I'll certainly drag them to a Fire game next year when they are back in SF. But the Fire are 90 minutes to 2 hours away (depending upon traffic), so it's not like a neighborhood team (which is what ManU was for them growing up).
It's not wrong. It starts being wrong when these people are from a MLS town but never visit MLS matches. Never said that. Like stated above I mean the people who do not support MLS while they can (living in an MLS town or about 1-2 hours away) but DO follow a certain European (or South American) club.
Is attending Man U wrong? No. No. A thousand times no. Please go and enjoy yourselves and you'll catch no grief from me. I never meant to imply that there was something morally, socially, politically, or economocally wrong with buying your Man U tickets and having a great time. But the original point of this thread (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) was should this change the MLS. Nope. It shouldn't. There. Now have we cleared things up?
Not really. In case nobody's noticed, Arena Football has become "big" now thanks to an emphasis on gambling and betting. You can see the "line" in all the papers. That's probably why NBC jumped in. They saw there was gold in them there hills. I don't believe MLS can view Arena Football as any kind of example.
IMO, the whole NASL notion and model is archaical. We learned from those mistakes and MLS is taking the properous path. etc.
Not if you're interested in winning the World Cup anytime soon. For those guys to be the best, they have to play with the best. Where they can aquire the work habits and intensity necessary. They will not develop to their full potential in MLS, or rather, not the way MLS is currently run (i.e. on the cheap). It's a quaint notion to believe that the hometown boys have to stay here in order to entertain our own fans and "save" our league, but they must graduate to the big, bad world of international soccer ASAP if they are to grow up into players who will bring home the ultimate bacon.