it is funny how i support expansion into Canada but when i talk about a New Zealand side in Australia's new domestic competition i say NO. sure i do not know the full story of Canada's football issues and the workings of it but Canada and the US go hand in hand with each other but i think only 1 team should be there as US cities need to be looked at first.
That's pretty funny Glorious. I've seen comments re: the Kingz by some on the Oceania board talking about how the NZ club is taking up a valuable spot from a good Australian city. Same thing here in North America I guess. I for one wouldn't mind having a team in Toronto. As I've mentioned several times on the Canada Board, Toronto has a great soccer crazy cutlure. However, it may be a culture similar to the one that pops up every year for the CWS scam which doesn't typically support domestic league play. Economically, I see some challenges in dealing with another country. The primary challenges being currency exchange risk, tax differences and sponsorship structure (with existing MLS sponsors). In other words, MLS would have to set up another company, MLS Canada, in order to deal with Revenue Canada (their version of the IRS). But hey, American companies do it all the time when conducting trade on both sides of the border. I think it would be far easier and more commercially viable if MLS stuck with mid-size to large American cities/tv markets; primarily cities that provide a captive audiance (i.e. Portland & San Antonio with no baseball or NFL) or large urban populations that support soccer culture (i.e. Houston, Seattle, NYC and SF). At the end of that list are small to mid-size cities with virtually no major league sports competition but have proven soccer support (i.e. Rochester). I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of these cities land the Quakes or Wiz to be honest. All that said, we all know what the real factors will be regarding which city can land the next round of MLS clubs. That city MUST provide an I/O and a promise for a SSS. Looks like Toronto should pass the SSS test, all they need is an I/O. If that happens, then bring on TO! As long as some of the economic kinks can be worked out (mentioned above), then Greater Toronto should leap frog over "more" deserving US cities in joining MLS. It would be EXACTLY the same thing as the Football Kingz of the A-League.
Weak Canadian Dollar? Have you guys looked at the exchanges in the last 12-18 months? It's the US dollar that's on it's arse. Moreover, whilst a cap (and a pitifully small one at that) is in place, I see no trouble in this area at all. I think the MLS could stay just US, but I think it would be better for both countries to unite. Both countries have soccer as a minority sport (Canada you're up against hockey and lacrosse, more than MLB and NBA and in the US it's the big 4). So why not lean on each other had use one another to support rather than being divisive and confrontational? Why have two small leagues instead of one larger, more credible one. Perhaps even in the long term they could break off and form two seperate leagues once everyone was established? I think MLS should embrace investment from Canada and that if they wanted some 'rivalry' games that this would only help. As for minor problems with player regs etc...that's something they could work out very easily. Aside from NFL EVERY major pro sport in north america is a union of American and Canadian teams. The reason I think Soccer would succeed better in Canada where NBA and MLB have struggled is the fact that soccer is more consistent with Canadian culture (i.e the UK and France). Sure, they've got their own national games but I think it would work and IF they have owners/investors willing to take the plunge so be it. I'd like to see all 4/5 A League markets in eventually, though I think I would fogive those who wanted only Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.
Canadian teams pay players in US dollars while reciving revenue in Canadian dollars. A salary cap does nothing since a Canadian team will have to earn revenues in a larger extent compared to their American counterparts. The current state of the USD doesn't mean ********. The USSF isn't going to let the CSA get on it's gravy train. They'll kick the CSA off at any chance. What rivalry games? They don't exist for any Canadian team entering MLS. Other issues such as players are a can of worms no one wants to open. MLS would rather have those "Canadian Investors" involved in an American team. Yet the NBA doesn't give the Canadians a free ride in their league. Neither does MLB. The NHL has been hampered by the cross border operations. The NFL and CFL are proof that two leagues in two countries can work quite well on their own. What worse than this talk about "soccer hotbeds" is "soccer culture". People need to check their heads before jumping to such ideas. Montreal and Vancouver will never appear in MLS. Owners don't like SEM and the losses that are produced.
I voted YES - I might even vote YES twice - Once for Toronto and again for Vancouver (unless Seattle gets a team) TORONTO Market - Toronto plus Ontario (most populous province in Canada) Stadium - Big enough for soccer and has any scheduling conflicts History - NASL and current teams indicate a lot of fan support VANCOUVER Geographically it makes sense to make a presence in the Pacific Northwest - While Portland or Seattle are preferable, I wouldn't rule out Vancouver as an alternative - But for now at least only one team up there until MLS would ever expand to 16 or 18 Conflicts - FIFA - There's currently a Thread up in the UK board about an All UK League - But there's the issue of whether FIFA would allow a league to span more than one country How To Handle Nationality Requirement - Right now MLS is run for AMERICAN soccer - And has a limit on number of foreign players - Anything that promotes competition is good for American soccer - (well - almost anything - gotta have some rules to prevent being swamped by foreign talent) - I think having one (or even two) teams in Canada does this - And I'd modify the rules to say that for Toronto (and Vancouver IF) Canadian players don't count as foreign players but be considered domestic players
If the Canadian currency is stronger, then you prefer to get your money in Canadian dollars. Now, there's always some exchange rate risk when you do business internationally, but the US 'strong dollar policy' seems to be a thing of the past, while Canada has done a very good job getting their once-high debt down. Therefore, I would suspect the Canadian currency will be at least as strong as the Dollar for at least the next several years. Toronto/Rochester might someday be a pretty good derby match. I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's fairly certain a single well-run NFL team makes more money in a year than the entire CFL. That I agree with. There are exactly four factors worth considering: 1. Stadium 2. Ownership 3. Market Size 4. Competition In that order. And there's a good distance between 1-2 and 3-4. Unless? I think Vancouver's a better choice if Seattle does get a team than if they don't.
People will still rather be paid in USD. It's a fact of life when you deal with cross border operations. The rise of the dollar has had nothing to do with good gov't policy here. A high dollar here means more of a return to the past of high intrest rates and double digit unemployment. Rochester doesn't figure into the mind of the Toronto sports fan. Thanks to a TV deal that other league would drool at. Hate to see when the TV bubble implodes. NBA tried that to boost the Sonics and Blazers. Everyone got black eyes from the whole fiasco.
Vancouver in NBA was a Pure cash grab by the NBA. Stern had all the reports that stated it would fail. He and the owners could not resist the125 Million expansion fee,
As a Canadian and BIG supporter of 'Futebol' I say HELL NO! We should start are own league even if it wouldn't be as succesful as MLS (were 1/10 the population how could it be anyway) Besides the only city that could compete would be Toronto, the only one that wouldn't fold would be Toronto (All of the rest of Canada will say that I'm being a 'typical' Torontonian puttin the Rest of Can down but it's the truth I wished it wasn't) what would be the point of one Canadian team in a Sport Built around Nationalism. A good Idea for the MLS is do like Europe and create more of a club feel rather than a Franchise. Put the City first, the dumb-ass mascots second. The Columbus Crew badge has to be the saddest thing I've ever seen on a jersey. Also put in place youth systems that feed into the main team. Canadians vote no, even though the deal will probably go through.
Very true, there was a fairy built for the two cities (mostly Rochester wanted it) it opened and less than a year later closed.
Canada's debt policy has improved significantly, and that has helped the loonie even before the dollar really started its fall against the euro. Some of the 'still prefer the dollar' will stick around due to the larger economic base of that currency, but some of it is just hangover from everyone's memories of the greenback being rock-solid and the loonie crap (look around, it's amazing how many people still think that). Give it a couple years. Especially if a big chunk of the team and staff is Canadian or international, they're not gonna mind the Canadian dollar much if current trends continue. I personally think you'll find soccer fans travel a little better. Some of this is because there are grassroots-but-organized fan groups basketball just doesn't have. The first time 500 Rochesterites(?) show up in Toronto and outcheer the locals, Rochester would begin to figure in the minds of Toronto soccer fans. I wasn't aware the ferry had closed, though. It would(?) have made travel between the two cities easier.
We've had such fiscal polcies in place for years. The only reason the dollar is doing good is because the US economy is still recovering while the government here lets the engine burn on fumes. People are already complaining that the high Canadian Dollar is hurting them financially and we are seeing it in a number of industries. Our dollar is already losing much it's value back to the US Dollar. Players want to be paid in US Dollars. This has always been the case regardless of how good the Canadian dollar is doing. They tried paying NHL players here in CAD in the late 80's and early 90's and it failed. As long as the majority of operations in a league are going to be based in the US, owners will have no choice but to pay in American Dollars. It's as simple as that. A bunch of traveling Rochester fans aren't going to change a thing. They come in to watch a game and leave the same day. The same goes for those fans who bring their support for theams they grew up with to the cities they now live in.
Canada's ratio of government debt to GDP in 1995: 1:1. Canada's ratio of government debt to GDP in 2004: 0.736:1 That is the greatest improvement of any G-7 country in that time (or since at least 1990). It's still above the US, but the US figure is rapidly rising while the Canadian figure continues to fall. People in Europe say the same thing, but the US strong dollar policy is now a thing of the past, which means that unless we get our own debt house in order (which seems highly unlikely in the short-term), our dolloar's going to continue to fall against major world currencies, including the Canadian. It won't lose much compared to how much it's gained. Dollar depreciation will march on. That's because the decades-long US strong dollar policy (which basically everyone in the world was happy with, because it was good for our prestige but good for everyone else's exports to the US) meant periods of Canadian strength were never likely to be a long-term phenomenon. Now it is. What I'm saying is just that a good rivalry can be developed. The way the divisional alignment works, a single divisional rival consitutes 1/8th of an MLS club's home games.
Canada is to export-heavy to let the Canadian dollar stay high. I guarentee that there will be pressure mounting to have the gov't devalue the dollar. We are already seen this going on. The dollar of the 90's saw the end of cross-border shopping into the United States. That has now returned with a vengance and is hurting business. Compaines that rely on export now suffer from this change in the Canadian dollar. Toronto sees Rochester as small potatoes. They see themselves on the same level as New York or LA. Toronto big wigs give Rochester as much respect as any other Canadian city.
FYI Americans see Rochster as Small Patatoes, its the 77th largest market in the US,220000 people. A detect a huge Chip on your part, We are on the same Level as those American Cities. get over it.
There is absolutely no way the MLS should ever field a foreign team, this league was created to develope American talent for the USMNT, something they have done very, very well. I don't think the league should be in the business of helping to develope a floundering national side such as Canada by inviting their top young talent into the fold. If we add them into the league we may as well add the Canadian teams from the A-League into the US Open Cup, wouldn't that be a nightmare, the Whitecaps winning the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup title, c'mon this is foolishness
I am part Canadian and I would like nothing more than to see Canada have a league. It would help CONCACAF and the Canadian National team. It just can't see it happening any time soon.. The travel distances are even longer than some MLS teams make. Unless you cut travel and have an east -west format. = But here's another thought. If you pull Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto, you will almost kill the A-league/USL top league. 2 of these teams are in the top 5 of attendence, Montreal has some tradition with 2 titles and Vancouver has long term history.. Toronto is still a very weak USL team. I am not sure they could make the jump to MLS.
I know my opinion is in the minority, but I would like to see Montreal and Vancouver incorporated into MLS, and for a variety of reasons. 1, the rules can be worked out so that a mix of non-US non Canadians, canadians, U.S. players can fill up the roster, allowing the team to be competitive and give the canadians time to develop. 2, geography, with the completion of Paetech park in Rochester, they're rise to MLS is all but certain, if Montreal, who have a strong rivalry with Rochester from the A-league were to come up too, then new rivalries would come into a league where few exist. The same can be said for Vancouver, especially if Seattle and possibly Portland were to come up, bringing back the old NASL rivalries. While many say that allowing Canada into MLS may hurt U.S. soccer, I feel that an expansion can be done in a way that it may actually help. By incorporating Canadian teams into MLS, MLS can open up more places for U.S. players in Canada, possible get closer to running in the black, and strengthen Canadian soccer which will allow the possibility of a very strong Concacaf.
MLS is NOT run by USSF. they like the idea that they're helping US Soccer, but not as much as they like the idea that they're making money. if MLS in Canada looks profitable, it's fine by me, especially if we can get TV coverage up there. ESPN has displayed their lack of care for the sport, but would a relatively prominent Canadian network step up and be a factor if the prospect of Toronto or wherever getting a team is introduced? if it makes business sense, Canada should get a team.
I think a team in canada is definitely a possibility but not in the near future maybe more like 2015. Has Garber ever declared Canada as an option? I think his view is more teams out west or down south to attract latinos. We will see only time will tell but I believe the next team anywhere up north will be in Rochester. The Rhinos are set for MLS.
Garber has his pre-fabricated statement for any city that he thinks would be in MLS. As was stated by denver_mugwamp in the Canada forum
FoxSports' Sean Wheellock certainly thinks Toronto (and Canada) belongs in MLS. http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3400906 Plus there is also a poll on that website. Interesting results.
I thought it was a interesting article by Wheelock. This is the first time where I read about the ownership group involved. The group behind the Maple Leafs, seem like a pretty stable group. They also have a lot of experience in sports management and marketing. They would be a great addition to the MLS ownership family. And with their NHL experience they know all about having to scratch out a smaller revenue stream.
Good find. I loved that article. And I'm glad someone (american) in the soccer community stood up and said this. I really hope it happens, and I would also welcome Vancouver, to augment a PNW presence that also could include Seattle and Portland. I think, Vancouver is actually a better option than Seattle, but that's another discussion. He's right about letting Canadian players count as domestic on their team. Makes perfect sense. The US should hardly quake in their boots - Canada 'boasts' only 1/10th of the popolation of the US.