Should MLS expand to Canada?

I asked this question in another thread a couple days ago, but nobody responded. I'm curious what the answer is, and it would affect how I reply to this poll:

What restrictions would a team in Canada have with respect to international players?

Would it be the identical deal that US-based MLS teams have, where US players make up the bulk of the roster while a few international players (i.e., non-US players or non-green card holding players) make up the rest? And, if so, would Canadian players count as international players? (That would make it difficult to market the team in Canada, and it would be a little upsetting that a Canadian citizen could be restricted from playing on a team in his own country because of his nationality.)

Or would it be a similar deal that US-based MLS teams have, except that instead of US players making up the bulk of the roster, Canadian players would? And, if so, would any US players wanting to play for the Canadian-based team be considered international players? (That would be a little upsetting that a US citizen could be restricted from playing on a team that participates in a US league because of his nationality.)

Maybe this has been asked and answered somewhere already, but I searched several threads and article without success.

 

As I posted in another thread, the exchange rate has actually favored Canada for the last two years.

To educate a little (not necessarily you), it doesn't matter what the exchange rate is. You can go to any bank and get money converted for a static fee. So the Canadian Dollar could be worth four cents or forty bucks and it'd make no difference. It matters where it's going, and it's going up.

(* well, it's gone down a little very recently, but that is probably just market correction for the dollar's precipitous fall as of late).

 

It hasn't been answered, because nobody knows until the time comes.

But I have no reason to think it couldn't be dealt with in a staisfactory way. I personally prefer Canadians be thought of as the domestics for that team, and I don't see why it's such a problem that not many Americans would be on it. Even if one American made the team, that'd be one more American playing pro soccer, right?

The biggest thing about this argument I don't understand (I understand the currency argument, dated as it is) is why people think a Toronto expansion would come at the expense of some other highly worthy city. First of all, we still have a bit of a shortage of worthy candidates, and secondly, there is no limit we should care about to the number of teams we can have. If there are 24 successful markets, there can be 24 teams.

 

I have now answered this in the other thread & will do so again here - basically I can not envision Canadian players not being considered domestic players for Canadian MLS team. Apart from the issue of legality, there is no way that the CSA and Frank Yallop would be interested, excited and strongly advocating for the MLS to come to Toronto if the team could only field one or two Canadian players. There would be no point to having the MLS here if that would be the case. They are interested because the believe the MLS in Toronto or any other Canadian city will help the Canadian national team. Whether it does, or how much it does, remains to be seen, but that's what they believe, and they wouldn't believe that if only a couple of players were on the squad.

I voted yes to the question, but I should state my bias since I am from Toronto, the Canadian city currently most likely to get a team.

 

The fact of the matter is, while Canadians have enjoyed some success in MLS, the purpose of MLS on its founding was to develop the sport in the United States.

I don't want to hear the argument that Canada cannot support a D1 League because that's all conjecture. Likewise, the evidence does not support it. Look at the turnout the Impact got for the A-League finals. Also, keep in mind that 9 years ago, people were saying that the United States could not support a D1 League. hmmm?

Although...if a dream world existed and the possibility arose, I would not be averse to a sort of North American Champions League-type outfit to replace the Champions Cup with teams from a Canadian D1 League, MLS, the M-League, and Central America & maybe a token Carribean team participating...



This is my first post by the way. Glad to finally be on the board.

 

Unfortunately for us the complete opposite is true. We've never had a top-flight league of our own (unless you count the CSL which lasted barely 6 years with average crowds of 2 to 3 thousand at best - hardly top-flight) in over 100 years of playing the game in Canada. And there is no evidence to support otherwise - the success of soccer in Montreal, Vancouver & Toronto has proven only that soccer can succeed in those three cities (the largest in Canada, not un-coicidentally), which isn't enough for a top-flight league. In addition, several attempts to create a Canadian league have been tried and failed.

To suggest that Canada can support a nation-wide D1 league is total conjecture at this point. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.

 

What's the definition of "top-flight"? It's probably true that Canada can't support a league at the level of MLS, but who says it has to be at that level? Who says they need to have SSS? Who says they need to play in anything that holds more than 5k spectators? Who says they need to compete with Europe and MLS for the very best Canadian players? Why not make it a league that helps develop the Canadian players that aren't quite at the level yet to get a contract in Europe or MLS? Salaries wouldn't be through the roof, and either would stadium rental expenditures. After a few years, we'd start to notice more and more Canadian players getting contracts in MLS and then in Europe. Transfer fees could be churned back into the league to make it stronger, etc., like we're seeing happening with MLS.

No need for Canada to bite off more than it can chew, but that doesn't mean there's not a place at the table for them.

 

I say yes, and I would like it to mainly be a team full of Canadians. I think some of the problem with MLS is the lack of big games, and a team full of Canucks would always be motivated (in part because they are nowhere near a WC) and push our boys who so often play lazy soccer in the summer. Just like Chivas, I think it would add color and create instant rivalries.
I am unconcerned with Canadian soccer catching the US---if they do it’s our fault for not getting better.

 

I would like to see all of Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal in the league assuming they have the ownership interest and the facilities and all that.

But if Toronto is looking to build an MLS/CFL stadium, then hell yes bring them in.

We're not talking about a cow town here, Toronto is a cosmopolitan city at least on par with the likes of Chicago.

Columbus or Toronto? Salt Lake City or Montreal? Come on here!

Good for the league, period.

 

Hell no... Canadians will never fully support any sport besides hockey...how many Canadians play in the NHL? How many play in MLS? Growth should be aimed at locations within our own borders. I agree with others that believe they should start their own league. The CFL is the bastard stepchild of the NFL as CASCAR is to NASCAR.

 

0 (a few more if anyone was playing)

3 (IIRC). Though only 1 started more than half the games and that was a goalkeeper.

 

To answer your questions in order:

1. Bigger than 2000-3000 spectators a game, and not in conjunction with the 2nd tier of another country (which is what we had in the CSL and what we currently have now). 2. We do if we want to see the domestic scene improve - having a tiny minor league system won't work in Canada with the travel costs 3. I think the owners would if they want any sort of decent return on their investment 4. Same as answer #3 5. We do, and so do many of the better Canadian players - we want somewhere where our Canadian players can actually stay in Canada to earn a decent living playing soccer, rather than forcing them to go to another country to do so. Returning to an NASL style league in conjunction with our typical professional sports partners the US seems to be the only realistic option and the only option that people with cash up here are interested in pursuing. 6. That's what we have now with our three remaining A-league players. We want to improve that situation. Where are all of these players going to go once developed? What is the point of having a league to develop players for the MLS if none of the players end up playing in Canada. Why not, if the market is there, develop the players for a Canadian MLS team(s)?

 

I'm going to avoid getting into the same repetitive arguments that I have grown tired of stating over & over again on the Voyageurs board as I don't see the point in repeating myself ad infinitum over here, but I will correct you on a few points for the benefit of our American friends. There have been 3 attempts to start an all-Canadian league, not two, outside of the one mentioned above there was the CSL in 1987 and then the CUSL in 2000 - the last one didn't even get off the ground. 3 failed attempts in 20 years is no reason to suspect that a Canadian league of even a half-decent nature is attainable in the near future.


Also, as someone who actually lives in Toronto (unlike the person who made the claim) I can state that to my eyes & ears there has been no recent "push" to bring the NFL to Toronto (though it won't stop a few people from dreaming that it happens). With the Argos set to move to a new stadium, quite the opposite is the case.

Pro Soccer could theoretically work in other markets besides the big three, but we have to prove that it can and that hasn't happened yet (I wish it had, but that's the reality). Before we can say with any authority that the other cities are capable of supporting teams at a major league level they have to show at least the capability of doing so consistently at a minor league level.

 

3 (IIRC). Though only 1 started more than half the games and that was a goalkeeper.[/QUOTE]

Pat Onstad I know, but who are the other 2? Canada made it to the Hexagonal, right?

 

Pat Onstad I know, but who are the other 2? Canada made it to the Hexagonal, right? [/QUOTE]

Felix Brillant, transitional international but senior international next year, a speedy rookie for NE out of a US college (Franklin Pierce IIRC). Mostly reserve role this year, right mid and up top IIRC. Some skill but a little raw and the speed is what's keeping him around IMO. Starting to get looks with national team.

Dwayne De Rosario. Started about 12 games this year. When Donovan is at attacking mid, he usually starts with Ching. Flashes of brilliance (goal of the year and another 1 or 2 candidates) but a little inconsistent. Free agent now. A few short injured periods in his career IIRC. Borderline starter but still with potential to be a star. Plays some for national team.

Adrian Cann, TI, was with Colorado but now in A-League. Waived cause he got few minutes as a rookie and would be SI next year.

 

I think expanding into Canada is a good idea, but not soon. They should assure their long-term success in the U.S. first. Canada may not be big enough to have a top-flight league, but it does have a solid soccer community, and it would help both MLS and Canada's national team. Eventually. But as I said, they should wait until there are, say, 14 or 16 clubs in the U.S. before opening any Canadian franchises.

 

Even if that was the case (and it went far beyond the point of discussion), what is your point? On second thoughts don't bother to tell me.

It's the people who have the money that you have to convince to stand & re-build, and give them good reasons for doing so, which includes explaining why any new Canadian league will succeed when a number of others have failed. If I had 200 million to invest in an all-Canadian league I might be nuts (or charitable) enough to do it. But it isn't up to me.

But apparently you have to live in Toronto not to hear about it.

As opposed to screwing all of Canada and Canadian soccer players in general so that someone in Alberta doesn't get what they want?

 

G-L, don't bother, it would just fall on deaf ears.

Wouldn't you "rather quit and run away than stand and rebuild", anyway?

We won't ever support soccer because of ow many Canadians there are currently in MLS? You better watch out, making that large a leap in logic could result in falling off a cliff.

And your little comment about the CFL vs. the NFL? Well the CFL was around first.

 

I'm sort of torn, but leaning towards no.


I mean, if Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, whatever can come up with commited owners and a stadium, that's great. It's worked in other sports, right?


But I think we can't use the other major American sports as an example. Soccer's just too different with international implications. Why should we help a potential rival in CONCACAF, y'know? I think MLS is already walking a fine line with these Mexican super clubs wanting to buy in, with their Hispanic player rules and we'd probably have to make rules for Canadian players, blah blah blah a whole new set of ****************.


I'm not completely against Canada, but you know what, we've got a whole bunch of good American cities lining up for MLS, and until we've completely exhausted that supply of cities, Canada should be put on the backburner.

 

Does it really matter?

The problem in USA is not to expand. The problem is still the mentality of certain people and the media. I turn on the TV and I see "Cheese eating comp" when I know for a fact that great soccer games are playing in the same very moment. And this thing of MLS for money is ridicoules. The USA already does not have coverage and you make the MLS for money? Nuts! MLS should be free and should have more coverage. Main problem is the mentality IMO.

 

Fact is only the big 3 have MLS potential, Edmonton cant support an A-league team niether can Calgary.

 

MLS...Canada? No way...they can't even keep up with A-League teams, how can they finance and efficiently run an MLS team???