You gotta admit, by-and-large, the games have been pretty fudging boring, the biggest exception being this last game vs the Smurfs. Sigi-ball is indeed "fan repellent". Topper GO GALAXY ! ! ! REDEEM THYSELF ! ! ! (again!)
as you've pointed out, you didn't follow the team in the 90's so you're basing you're opinions on league standings. as a fan from game 1, i have endured the crap that was the 1996 la galaxy, that we finished second was a testament to how bad MLS was in its early years. as for 1999, had sigi not arrived i have little doubt that we would not have made the finals that year. we were a team going nowhere and quickly (for many of the same reasons as this year). sigi came in solidified the midfield and put together a team that made it to the finals. so to say that LA was a great team in 1999 pre-sigi is totally incorrect. agreed, it's been a bad season. not one that i have enjoyed. but, let's put this in to perspective, this was no ordinary season. it's not a straw man argument if the premise of your argument is flawed, you blame a single component for the teams failure, which by the very nature of the concept of "team", is false. they've had more than adequate chances to prove they should be starting. a) they practice during the week, do you really think if any of the subs were lighting it up in practice they would be sitting? no way, and you can tell they haven't simply by looking at their performance when they do get minutes. which leads to b) when given the limited minutes this season they have failed to impress, as far as i'm concerned if you're a bench player you have to grab your oppurtunities no matter how small and make them count. loathe as i am to compare our players to multi-million pound players, but when i watch the premier league and SAF sends on sloskjaer, i expect things to happen, when SBR sends on jermaine jenas i expect him to have an impact, even if he's only on for 5 minutes, when sven sent on teddy, i expected him to change grab an opportunistic goal. i expected those thing, because in the past, when handed the substitutes role, that's what they did. none of our subs have proven that to me this year. there hasn't been a single sub this season that has made a case for a starting line up. as the coach, in a bad season, if i have the choice of an underperforming, untested rookie, against an underperforming, seasoned professional i will go with the pro every time. c) when the bench players have started this season (a lot lately due to injury) they haven't performed any better than the veterans. [/b][/quote] well i have some stats of my own that would seem to contradict yours, and i'll go ahead and add some context to show just how impressive some of sigi's accomplishments were: 1999 sigi comes in to a team that sucked just about as bad as this one (for many of the same reasons), brings in a couple of mid-fielders and turns them around to a championship quality team, that if you ask me got bullied out of their first ring, by a cheating dc united. 2000 has his team (that he just finished getting to work as unit) gutted mid-season, by the league to bring in "proven goal scorer" el crapador. in the process we lose clint mathis, joey franchino, steve jolley and roy meyers. all starters. somehow despite losing 4 starters and gaining 1/2 a starter sigi manages to win the western conference and take us the quarter finals, where our "proven" goal scorer fvcks up and gifts kansas city a goal that takes them to the final. 2001 due to salary cap issues, LA trades veteran defender and team captain robin fraser (we do pick up lalas). with no hernandez and no other striker sigi takes the team to the CCC final and wins the game 3-0 (negative tactics?). then goes on to win the western conference title with his negative tactics, lose the mls cup final, and win the us open cup final. 2002 the arrival of carlos ruiz, masks the fact the aging team of veterans has lost a step or two and we win the cup (finally) and the supporter shield (again). still using sigi's negative tactics. --- a question for you, was saturday's win over san jose, the coach or the team? --- the reasons this season has sucked (imo) 1) the 8 game road trip. i truly believe that had we a normal opening schedule, we would have picked up two wins that were ties, and two ties that were loses. we also wouldn't have had that "haven't won on the road" monkey on our back and i think we'd have picked up another road win (likely against DC). with those extra points that would place us second this year. 2) overconfidence, the same thing that plagued the team in 1999, a belief that they were too good. coupled with the final being at home in their new stadium and the convenient excuse that the first 8 games didn't really count. 3) losing sasha, unlike many here, i believe sasha is huge influence on the game. saturday seems to back that theory up. 4) the bo/lalas team chemistry thing --- ultimately you don't have enough evidence for your case to discount the evidence for keeping sigi. 3 years of success against 1 year of mediocrity just won't convince anyone other than those of the "instant gratification/short memory" set that sigi should go. should sigi post some horrible results in the first 10 games next year, and should he fail to address the age/talent problems of the team in the off season. then it's time to question sigi's ability to coach.
The Galaxy finished #1 in their conference in 1996, second in 1997, and first in 1998. These fact remain, regardless of your memories. I'm not blaming a single component...which is why you're commiting a Straw Man fallacy. I had nothing against Sigi at the beginning of the season, even defended him and blamed the poor play and attitudes of the players when the early rumblings about firing Sigi came up. Yes...some of the players to a greater or lesser degree have sucked and hurt the team's performance without a doubt, but why on Earth are they still in the starting 11 in October? They were bad in April...why haven't they been benched and others given a chance? Answer: Sigi chooses to keep trotting them out. Sigi. Nobody else. And why does Sigi continue to play conservative ball in July, August, September, and October when all the prior games unequivocally show us that conservative tactics have been a failure since April? Only Sigi knows...because Sigi decides the tactics. I completely disagree with your premise that our untested rookies have underperformed. If you are Torres, how can you possibly underperform with only 35 minutes of MLS play for nearly the entire season? And if you check around and see what a number of fans have to say about Torres' play against the Quakes, you'll find the reports optimistic; this coming after he has seen some credible minutes the couple of games prior. Practice is one thing, but nothing beats game minutes...the point is, you've got to get your bench some minutes, and this is most important when your starters are not cutting the mustard for the entire season. I understand that you like to reflect on Sigi's past accomplishments, but the stats I'm interested in are the stats that pertain to this season. 2003. Sigi's choices have been poor. His managing of the team has been poor for the reasons I've stated before. Well, I hope you're not using a single game as some justification of your view while disregarding the season as a whole, but let's explore this: 1) We had some different personnel on (or off) the field, no? Point 1 of my argument. 2) We actually attacked the Quakes rather than using approved Sigi tactics, which are: a)score first goal, fall back, defend, and pray the clock runs out b) try not to let the other team score and hope for Ruiz to either pull off a miracle after the 100th lob over the top or earn a PK Point 2 of my argument. I can only surmise that Sigi told the lads to take it to the Quakes, and boy did it work! Does that make Sigi a good coach when he has chosen not to do this for nearly the entire season? No way. Agreed. Bench the guys that aren't putting out. We lost a ton of games with Sasha. I'm reluctant to blame Bo for our last place tie with Dallas for goals scored. I have little optimism that Sigi will do anything other than what he has done this year. Our one hope is to acquire some ringers, as I've said before.
that's the problem with statistics though, they don't cover the intangibles . it's just like this season, five years from now people will look back and say "hey they made the playoffs for the 8th consecutive year and the semi-finals of the us open cup, how bad could they have been. you and i will both be able to say they stunk. to be honest, i haven't read back through this entire thread, but your arguments to date have focused on sigi. perhaps earlier in this thread you do lay blame additional blame on the players, i just don't recall it. perhaps we're watching different games, but the last two matches i went to (dc united and kansas city) la was pretty much camped in the offensive end of the pitch most of the game. dc bunkered down and almost escaped with a draw. kc took advantage of a pressing forward and got two quick counters. the last match i saw on television was against dc and again, la was attacking the whole match, this time they got caught early and hartman had a bad day. and apparently there was some pretty good attacking soccer saturday. i've seen plenty of subs who haven't been getting minutes, come on with 5 minutes left in the game and create a positive result, this happens week in and week out in every league around the world. if you know, as a sub, that you're not likely to get many minutes, then you have to come up big when you get them. i'll point to spurs this weekend. all three subs had a hand in the goals scored. mabizela, who wasn't getting minutes, scored 3 minutes after his introduction from a cross by fellow substitute zamora, with the game winner coming off a rebound from dalmat. while la is no tottenham, tottenham isn't exactly a european powerhouse. that is what a substitute is supposed to do. prove he belongs in the starting 11. i'll bet dollars to donuts at least one of those three makes the starting lineup this weekend. i just like to look at the whole picture and not an isolated season, especially one as strange as this. you must admit that this was no regular mls season for the galaxy. per-season tournament in spain (where we did well) champions cup (where we sucked) world peace cup (where we were average) plus an 8 game road streak you really think that sigi, hasn't told his team to "go at teams" for the last 5 or 10 games and only just thought about saying that saturday? with sasha 5 - 6 - 8 without sasha 4 - 6 - 0 i'm not saying sasha is the be all end all, but i think he rounds out the midfield, and provides a nice target on corner kicks, that danny and lexi have had to fulfill more with him gone (leaving us exposed at the back) i don't blame bo or lalas, what i was trying to convey was that we shouldn't have had both of them on the team at the same time. it caused selection errors (imo). lalas is the better team motivator/captain type. bo is the better player. this season or next? i doubt very highly that sigi will sit on his hands in the off season. i've mentioned it before in this thread, but you were right about the team underperforming last year. they won the cup though and in our small league, with miniscule salary caps and less than abundant crop of great players to choose from it was always going to be difficult to offload players from a championship team. i mean really who did we lose in the offseason? adam frye, brian mullan, matt reis, craig waibel and winston griffiths, not exactly charter members. no, barring a miracle and this team winning the cup, i think we'll see some major changes to the team.
Re: I have to wave the bs flag... Sorry for the late reply, I'm just not here enough, I guess. Here goes: To be clear, I didn't say "blow off" the regular season. I said the regular season is overrated. Obviously, the team must make the playoffs, so the regular season does mean something. But the playoffs are where the coaches make their money - or lose their jobs. But let's also be clear - Sigi was NOT hired to put entertaining soccer on the field for the Galaxy. Anyone who saw his UCLA teams (and I did) knew that he played a conservative style where goals were relatively scarce but goals against were an anomaly. If the Galaxy brass had wanted "pretty" soccer, they never would have fired Zambrano. But they did, and the rest is history. Sigi is always going to bring you low-scoring, defensive-minded soccer. That's the way his teams have always played, and unless the brass open the purse strings and gives him a mandate to open things up offensively, that's what you're going to get from him. And, guess what, it works. That's up to you. If you don't vote with your pocketbook, they'll never get the message that you value offensive, exciting soccer over winning titles. I think you'll find that, around the league, fans are very much aware that the regular season is mostly meaningless (except for rivalry games), but they keep coming out anyway. The same is true in basketball and hockey as well. Fans always talk about boycotting the regular season as meaningless, but they never act on that talk. Same thing with the whole "exciting" thing - fans talk big about boycotting "boring" teams. But the attendance numbers don't suggest such boycotts ever happen. Maybe they should. But that's not my call, I'm only one fan. Of course, you have the desire to win every time, but for most sports professionals, there's another desire - always keep the big picture in mind. For MLS teams, the big picture points to MLS Cup. It's obviously best if you can win consistently during the regular season because that gives you better playoff position and a better team concept in the run for MLS Cup. But failing that, what you want to have is a team that is peaking at the right time. A team that maybe struggled a bit to find themselves, but ultimately did so. If you can do that, regular season struggles will be forgotten. Watching many different sports over the years, I've seen this sort of success rewarded both by fans and by management far more often than teams that look great during the regular season but fade in the post season.
The question still beckons Sorry this has to be bumped, but the question beckons especially after last night.
Re: The question still beckons What? Because he took a team that's played poorly all season to within a couple minutes of the conference finals?
Re: Re: The question still beckons C'mon, you know this will be debated sooner or later. I'm waiting for cl_hanley-dashiel Round II.
Re: Re: Re: The question still beckons my heart is too broken to really get in to it again, maybe in a few weeks time...
Re: Re: The question still beckons Or, the question could be phrased, “What? Because he took the defending MLS Cup Champs to their worst regular-season ever and then managed to blow a 4-0 aggregate lead in the playoffs?”
To the Sigi fan club / history mongers / statisticians: In the face of future onslaughts to the good Sigi name, should you decide to call upon Sigi's accomplishments as your bastion of defense and fortify your argument with tales of Sigis' past heroics, please remember to include the 2003 season to his resume. Henceforth, it shall be known as the worst season in Galaxy history; even one for the record book, one might say. ------------------------------------- Round II of cl_hanley v. dashiel should most appropriately take place long after the...what should we call it?...how about The Great Debacle?...yes...after the sting of The Great Debacle has had some time to fade and the emotions dulled. ------------------------------------- That is all. Thank you and good off season.
I want blood !!! Posts are just not gonna do it.... I feel like a boston red sox fan... I want someone, anyone fired for this debacle. If the FO doesnt make someone a sacrafical lamb or pig "you know who i'm talking about" in the next few days I'm gonna burn my galaxy jersey in disgust. Galaxy players, staff, and fans I hate the most. 1. Sigi Schmid - King of Crap 2. Simon Elliott - Didnt win one ball in the midfield last night 3. Tyronne Marshall - Couldnt mark his mother 4. Doug Hamilton - Half-time interview was prelude to demise. 5. Danny Califf - wide open net.. finds the keeper 6. Vaegnas - how many fouls outside the box did he commit... about 6. 7. Big Kev - came out got burned, stayed in got burned.. pick one ass!!! 8. Victornie,Jones,Moreno,Bo,Ruiz... you're all to blame for this 5 goals in one hour. 9. Galaxians - you should have started running on the field after SJ third goal and yelled at Sigi not to F this up. maybe after the 20 person he might have listened. 10. Me - who gave this much of a shxt about a season I thought was all but over a week ago, for getting excited about the lads when they didnt give a shxt about themselves or the City of L.A. Purely a heartless... gutless performance... NOW FIRE SOMEONE IMMEDIATELY !!!!!
Sigi has got to go, period. While this team was coming apart at the seams, Sigi must have been asleep at the wheel. I mean, how many times did Mullan have to burn Victorine before Sigi realized a change had to be made? Sorry supporters of Sigi, 80 minutes is too long. When our back line were tiring at the end, why not bring in Lalas to secure the backline? Why didn't Cein come in a half time to help change and control the tempo of the game? Did Simon even complete a pass during the entire match? Or was his constant, kick it out and give it back method work? Sigi was out coached by Yallap last night, it's pure and simple. Yallop made the (right) moves, and Sigi stayed put with his boys, did nothing and got burned. Well, I for one say we need a coach that will come in and not be afraid to sit down HIS boys. I can't see this man coaching my Galaxy anymore, it hurts toooo much! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU***********
I agree, it was obvious after the first game that Victorine was unable to keep up with Mullen. To make matters worse, he adds so little offensively that Mullen is not required to defend. Victorine, as usual, was USELESS. I would have started Albright, at least can play defense. However, the entire midfield was invisible. Torres disappeared, which was disappointing. He should have been able to turn Lagos inside out. Cobi, as he has done most of the season, was invisible. Elliott, just plain S**KED. Vagenas, to his credit, tried hard. But just did not have any helps in the midfield at all. Once again the Galaxy showed little to no imagination on the ball. Victorine, just ran up and down the line. No quality crosses, no taking on defenders, but plenty of giving the ball away. Moreno, although he has some great games, he is by far more dangerous when receiving the ball at the top of the 18. I for the life of me, cannot figure out why he thinks he is going to use a speed move past a defender. Must be from practicing against Victorine. And why, when he is in the open field, does he insist on stopping the ball and turning it back. Elliott, NO OFFENSE whatsoever. But his play is very offensive to watch. Cobi, did anyone, tell him there was a game being played. Torres, picked a very opportune time to have a bad game. All in all, I just don't see where significant changes will be made if Sigi remains Coach. This was a VERY UNINSPIRED performance. Although, I certainly do not think it is all his fault. I do think that once again, he waited until he was forced to make a change and as usual it was to late.
I was on the "one bad season is too soon to fire a coach" side of the debate. But the more I think about Sunday's disaster, the more I wonder about Sigi's strategy (or lack thereof). I know that the players on the field must perform, but it seemed to me that we had no plan whatsoever. Some people have said we shouldn't have bunkered down so early. Others have said we didn't bunker down enough. And that's why I'm so frustrated with Sigi. We didn't seem to do anything but kick the ball in panic. We didn't bunker-keeping men behind the ball, we didn't control the ball and use up clock, we didn't counter and pressure San Jose. There was no plan, no organization, nothing. And I don't think you can place all of the blame at the players' feet for that. At halftime I expected some sort of changes. It was clear that San Jose had gained the upper hand and we were floundering. And what did we get? Nada. Will he get fired, I don't think so. Should he get fired...I'm starting to lean the other way.
Honestly, the Galaxy were much better and more exciting to watch last season. For whatever reason this season they were not the same. Obviously those uniforms where hideous and it would be hard for anybody to feel confident in those things for god sake. They seemed to lack skills in trapping the ball and passing ans shooting. This was evident when they played PSV Eindhoven in the Peace Cup. But, despite this they should be playing in the semi-final next week against a a team from a much inferior city, KC. Then again, does going to Kansas City to play a semi-final game excite any of you? Not anybody I know either, just something that was entering the Galaxy's mind as they were ahead 4-0 on aggregate when they decided it may be better for MLS if a game not be played their of any significance with subarctic temperatures in front of 90 fans on a grid iron football field. Blah! KC should be moved to MIAMI immediatly!
Keep Sigi I'm a Quakes fan, but I just wanted to say that Sigi is one of the best coaches in American soccer, and I think it would be a mistake to get rid of him after one rough season. Personally, I really didn't think the Galaxy were that impressive on paper last year, but they still played great team soccer and always seemed to get the result.
Are the LA fans kidding themselves? You folks must be kidding. Fire Sigi Scmid? Why? The guy delivers three championships last year and you want his head because the Galaxy lost IN THE PLAYOFFS to a team that is arguably the best in the league? How can you lay the collapse at Sigi's feet? Lat time I checked, Cobi Jones, a veteran of three World Cups was on the field. Last time I checked BO, a veteran of what (?), four World Cups was on the field. What about Califf, a US international. What About Kevein Hartman,....former MLS GK of the Year. Where was the leadership from these guys when the match hung in the balance? One of the best things about soccer is the lack of handholding that goes on once a match starts. Professional players are EXPECTED to adapt to the situations in the match. This is NOT basketball or football where a coach can call time out and get things under control. It is up to the players to DO IT ON THE FIELD. It's pretty sad if you don't get it.
Re: Are the LA fans kidding themselves? I'm not really in agreement that Sigi should be sacked...but the majority of fans don't seem to care for him (and this was going on while he was winning) so with one unsuccessful season, the timing is right to convince Doug Hamilton (whom I'd rather see leave first) to sack Sigi. All things seem to point to him being on the way our. End of story.
Re: Are the LA fans kidding themselves? Go back and read the thread if you're interested in anything more than your own opinion. Furthermore, you may learn what the anti-Sigi contingent actually has against Sigi, not your interpretation. Of course, few if any non-Galaxy fan people that have come to this board to post have made the effort. They usually just show up, bluster for a post or two, and make no effort whatsoever to determine what the arguments against Sigi are.