Now slow down Sparky. I have read everything you have said and have responded. It is you who has failed to read anything that I have written. I never said everyone sucked. I pointed out the deficiencies of other players that night. I have not advocated for Del Piero to start every match. In fact, I have been mum on that matter. If he starts against Ukraine, fine. If he does not, fine. Del Piero was not the problem against France and conversely, he was not the solution either. It was just that type of match and if you bother to read what I have written, you will see that I point to many factors that led to the result. But if you are going to take your time to hammer Del Piero and attack my stance, then you are just going to continue to frustrate yourself. And you have done nothing to convince me in your opinion. And if you want to disagree with me, go ahead. I don't care. But don't get pissed off that I don't act like a pappagallo and follow the herd led by the Italian media in the massacre of Del Piero.
falc, come on man, a "good shot." the only two good shots were inzaghi and camo. cannavaro had a good attempt in front of goal, but he didn't make clean contact. del piero's was a weak shot that was easily saved. look, i'll admit that not everyone had their greatest games, but if you ask me who played the worst, it was del piero clearly. just cause others didn't play their best, doesn't mean I have to criticize everyone equally, that is not logical, as some played worse than others. i sympathize with some of your argument about bad tactics and the french not making it easy to create, which are true, but regardless del piero played poorly, almost every board I've been too and every media outlet I've read said this. it was pretty clear to me. edit: i still think del piero should be a super sub though.
Look, I have avoided going the worst route as I have two players that fit that bill for me and I am pretty sure that most of you can guess who I would list. But in all honesty, I think the formation failed the players if anything. I give De Rossi credit for giving Ribbery a lot of attention. It was clear that Donadoni wanted to limit him and it worked. Not only did he have Zambrotta in his face but De Rossi hounding him down and Del Piero got into the act as well every so often. We do not have a true left wing (should Grosso be tried there?) and Donadoni is trying to figure a way to get Gatusso, De Rossi and Pirlo on the pitch who all generally play in the center. So one solution, that Lippi used as well, is to play Del Piero on the flank. Not the best way to use him but he does the job the coaches have asked of him. Now how Del Piero was the worst player, very little has been given to back that up. Not all of his passes were accurate but then again, that could be said about all who played that night. Take a look at the difficult shot that he had to take. He made a lot out of very little. Camoranesi passed the ball behind him. Landreau did not have an easy save. Do I wish he could have made better? Sure. So do the rest of you, even if it would kill you to see Del Piero of all people connect. After that shot, Inzaghi tried to make a difficult shot that went over the cross bar. He had Del Piero charging the middle. But no one seems to criticize that play. The media has never liked Del Piero. Nor does it seem many on these threads. So I am suppose to follow popular opinion? That is not me. And if all of us acted like pappagalli, what is the point of the forum? If you think bunching up on me is going to do any good, you are going to lose. If you want to convince me of anything, give me logic, give me reason, give me facts. But stay away from the bias.
I saw a replay of the game today and it confirmed what you say. Camo did pass that ball behind him and if he led him a little he would have scored.
I don't dislike Del Piero. I admire his club play and I admire his sportsmanship. And contrary to what you might think, I don't dislike Juventus either. I just happen to like Roma better, so please take your Juve blinders off. It's his performance for the national team that I loathe. And the thing is, he makes it too easy to loathe his play for the NT -- you can predict before a game that he's going to play for sh.t, and what do you know...he ends up playing for sh.t, *time and time again*. There are some players that play great on the club level (remember Robert Mancini? one of my all-time favorites), and then don't play well on the NT level. Some players are like that, that's how the ball bounces sometimes. ADP is the prime example. He really does need to swallow his pride and call it a day for the NT. And if you think I have my Roma blinders on, well then I should let you know that I am glad that Totti retired from the NT. His retirement was long overdue, and his cat-and-mouse play with the NT for over a year disgusted me. But I still admire his play on the club level, and my views on ADP are no different in that respect.
I would have loved to see him make that shot, just as I loved to see him score versus germany. If he does get called up and continue to play, then in the future I will root for him, even if i think others could serve us better.
I am not sure I would guarantee a goal but considering all of the criticism he has gotten, I think that it was pretty amazing for a washed-up player like Del Piero to get that shot off like he did.
Not once did I blame the poor result that we had against France or the poor results that we had over the past year solely on Del Piero! I'm a firm believe that victory and defeat are two things that are achieved AS A TEAM, and I don't believe in attributing or blaming either/or on just one player! This same theory applies to Del Piero. But in case you have forgotten this is a thread that raises a question SPECIFICALLY ABOUT DEL PIERO! Not De Rossi, not Pirlo, and not Gattuso. The guy who made this thread wanted a response and I cleary gave my thoughts and opinions on the subject not just based on the match vs. France, but all the friendlies and qualifiers that I have seen Del Piero play in over the past year. Now, did I deny that Donadoni's tactics were foolish and played a big part in our poor performance? Not at all. Don obviously didn't make the best tactical decisions whatsoever. But my critique of Del Piero was based on more than just the fact that he was playing out of his natural role. I'm here discussing how age has played a significant factor on his ability to compete at the international level because it has greatly reduced his pace, stamina, and strength, yet you're here trying to convince me of his importance based on the fact that he got one good shot off against France! On top of that, you and your fellow Juve contingent start attacking me because I'm a Roma fan and you automatically assume that my criticisms of Del Piero are purely based on my club loyalty. In any case, my thoughts and opinions of Del Piero still stand, and just like the majority of the fans on this forum I personally do not feel he is capable of filling a role with the Azzurri that's any larger than that of a super sub who can play the final 20-25 mins of a match!
I couldn't have said it better myself. Juve fans are telling us that we're too hard on Del Piero and his international performance throughout his career, but when has he ever really done anything or given us any reason to prove us wrong or make us eat our words? Some would call us spiteful or bitter because he never lived up to what we expected him to. To that though I say YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT! I'm an avid Roma and Totti supporter, but am I pleased with Totti's overall performance through his international career? No! I'm not! Other than Euro 2000 and MAYBE WC 2006 (due to his courageous comeback from injury) I haven't at all been pleased with Totti during his Azzurri career. I refuse to let my love for my club get in the way of my better judgement when it comes for my love for the Azzurri, and this remains true in regards to my judgement of every single player that wears the Azzurri jersey, regardless of what club he plays for!
You can't criticize Del Piero for wanting to play with the Azzurri still. He's an athlete and a professional and when he's called to the Nazionale he does his best. The real fault lies with the younger players who haven't stepped up and taken Del Piero's job from him. Players like Inzaghi and Del Piero will keep trying so long as no one better forcibly removes them. And that's where Rosina, Pazzini, Cassano, etc., come in. These guys need to start making a big impact; otherwise the manager will just trust in Del Piero's greater experience.
I never did blame or criticize ADP for wanting to play with the Azzurri. As I've said before I have nothing but respect and admiration for the heart and character he shows when it comes to the NT. My gripe is more against Donadoni who just seems too call up these old timers simply because he lacks the confidence or courage to introduce some new names into the fold, even though they may be better capable to compete at that level physically.
Your gripe should be about Donadoni using a formation that makes no sense for the players he puts out there. The more I look at that 4-1-4-1 formation, it is no wonder that we did not score. Inzaghi is useless as a lone striker if he does not have two attacking midfielders behind him. With Milan, Kaka and Seedorf give him offensive support, which not only creates chances for Pippo but also takes away defensive pressure. What support did he have on Saturday, with the two creative players put on the wings? Gatusso and De Rossi did not provide that support. And enough of this physical level. Are either Del Piero or Inzaghi out there on wheel chairs? Yes, put in some kids who can run all day and do nothing. That is how the game is played in MLS.
I already pointed out numerous times that I wasn't happy with Donadoni's tactics. But once again this not the Donadoni thread. In regards to Del Piero and his ability to start and perform at a high level I still do not think he is fully capable, at least not as much as he was in his 20's. You're making it seem as though we're specifically picking on Del Piero in this regard, but this is something that eventually happens to ALL PLAYERS. They get older, their pace and physical capabilities gradually reduce, and then eventually they fade out of the roster. And don't give me that "they're not in wheelchairs yet" business. It has nothing to do with being in "wheelchairs"! They can no longer physically keep up with the pace of today's game liek they used to! PLAIN AND SIMPLE! WHy is it so hard for you to just accept that? I don't feel that they should immediately be dropped from the squad entirely. I feel both can help out significantly in the super sub role. BUt as far as them being starters goes I honestly feel that this should be given to younger players who are in their prime.
But there also comes a point in time when a manager has to realize that a player cannot hack it anymore. The great thing about Lippi was that he knew how to manage ADP's time on the pitch....it's a problem when he is a focal point of the attack.
Come on now, enough with this idiotic response that this is a Del Piero thread. This is not an issue that lives in its own vacuum. It is a team game, so you cannot only discuss one player. And if you are going to be critical about Del Piero's contribution, you cannot ignore that Donadoni had him play as a wing. Nor can you ignore that we had nothing from the central midfield. And if you think the sport is about 20-year olds who can run fast, then I doubt if you have any appreciation for the game. Go watch a game at your local university and see how impressed you will be with fast running 20-year olds that have no clue about the game. If you expect Del Piero to play left wing with incredible pace, then lose those expectations. I am certain that Donadoni does not have that expectation. It is not where I would put him but he did the role that Donadoni asked of him. And part of that was to attract attention from Ribery, who dropped back to put defensive pressure on Del Piero. So it is not as black & white as you think. All older players lose their pace. The good ones learn to adjust. Those who do not, end up retiring early. Del Piero has learned to make the adjustment over the years. I know there is another thread that advocates bringing on youngsters from the last U21 side. Considering that they failed to get out of their group in the finals, why does anyone think that they will be the answer? So I disagree with you. Because the game is not about pace only. Something that you need to learn to accept. Del Piero, Inzaghi and others still can contribute. Not only as super-subs, although I find it somewhat contradictory in that on one hand, the players are no good any longer but on the other hand can be SUPER-SUBS.
Don't see how that response can be "idiotic" when it technically IS a Del Piero thread. Tell you what, create a De Rossi thread and we can all feel free to comment on his performance as well alright? But as it stands this is a thread discussing Del Piero and his decline, so Im just going to remain on topic. It seems as though you're still fixated with that match against France and the fact that Donadoni played him on the wing. Meanwhile I mentioned repeatedly that my gripe with ADP's form goes well beyond just that one match. You are saying not to blame Del Piero for the poor performances of the Azzurri, which I agree we shouldn't, but at the same time you're looking to point the finger entirely at Donadoni instead. In my view it shows a little bit of hypocricy on your part. Anyways, repeat your rants as much as you want, but you won't get me or anyone else to think any different on this subject. You mention how our U-21 team failed to make it out of their group, yet here we are with a senior side that has not progressed much better. We have without a doubt some of the most talented U-21 grads in Europe right now with the likes of Rosina, Pazzini, Palladino, and Nocerino. But of course it's narrow minded traditionalists such as yourself that just refuse to give up on older vets that are OBVIOUSLY on the decline and need to pass the starting ranks on to some newer talent! I honestly couldn't care less what you say anymore because at this point it has become more than obvious that you are supporting the idea of Del Piero starting because of your club loyalty, plain and simple! Del Piero has done nothing over the last year, in ANY position that he's been put in by Donadoni, to merit the idea that he should continue being a starting player! As was mentioned before, Lippi new the extent of the limitations of both Inzaghi and Del Piero, and he worked around their limitations thus playing them in LIMITED ROLES. In the end we all know how well Lippi's tactics and strategy ended up working for us. A common problem with the Azzurri for years now, and Italian football in general, is its tendency to constantly neglect the importance of our younger stars, and try to ride the coat-tails of our veterans as long as possible. Now, I'm not saying that we should bring in half of our U-21 grads and immediatly toss out all our vets. But when certain veterans haven't shown the consistency or production to merit their starting roles, then changes have to be and SHOULD be made. Otherwise it shows a definite lack of confidence in the potential of our younger players and as far as I'm concerned only serves to do more damage than good. Frankly, I think I've explained my point of view on ADP enough already. Whether or not you chose to be reasonable and agree with me to an extent is your problem. It is quite obvious thatyou are set in your own opinions, and I am set in mine. I guess all we can do is wait till the next time Del Piero is given a starting spot on the Azzurri and take it from there.
The blame should go to Donadoni for capping ADP. We all know about ADP at this stage of his career. He came off the bench for gli Azzurri last year in Germany. How Donadoni sees him as a starter is beyond comprehension. But I certainly would not complain if we didn't see him in an Azzurri sweater ever again. We need to get more youth involved in our teams. It's truly that simple.
It shouldn't be about WHO to blame though, that's the thing! Everytime we have a disappointing performance we're always looking for that one person for us to lay the entire blame one! This draw shouldn't be blamed solely on Donadoni, or INzaghi, or Del Piero, etc. Like I said before whether you perform well or you perform porely, in football you do either/or as A TEAM. Donadoni didn't use his players in the best way and tactically it was a swing and miss decision with his formation. ADP and INzaghi aren't the players they used to be, and we also gotta learn to accept that as well.
No never again ! He got a free ride at the world cup, cause he's Lippi's friend. Marcelo Lippi said it in public that they are very good friends. He got a free ride in the world Cup, but he shouldnt anymore. That was a very important match against France which Italy could and should have won, and Delpiero was the worst by far. Andrea Pirlo is the best player in th world, and he deseverse better teamates than that garbage can. Time for Rosina to be brought in.
Actually, it wasn't easy for Del Piero to crack Lippi's squad. It was actually somewhat of an uphill battle for ADP to Lippi's full confidence and become a regular call up once again. I believe for the at least the first year-year and a half of Lippi's coaching stink with the NT Del Piero was seldomly called up due to a lack of playing time by Capello at Juve, and Lippi even made it quite clear that Del Piero must first show that he still he's still in good enough form to make it onto the squad. Del Piero thus had a great season with Juve as a SUPER SUB, and once again regained Lippi's confidence, hence why Lippi also used him primarily in that super sub role as well!
In my opinion, you absolutely just summed it up, bro. Did other players also have a bad or sub-par performance? Sure they did. How about someone name me the last Azzurri match where ADP has made a positive contribution. Then name me when he's done in consecutive matches. Arriverderci, Alessandro.