Interesting post KenC The account seems personal. Did you participate in this, or did you hear about it? The reason I ask is at what point for you does it turn from consent to rape in this scenario where it seems no clear-cut physical or verbal objection is offered by an alleged victim? Too true. I went to a school renowned for its athletics program. The stories of sexual shenanigan told me by athlete friends were amazing, and they often remarked that there were all too many willing participants from the female population. Did some cross the line? I don't know, maybe some did. On any weekend in Miami, Philly, NY, London or any major city you can go to an upscale nighclub and see hordes of young women hanging out in VIP sections with the famous and infamous. On any NBA night a quick check of the visiting team's hotel lobby looks like a wing from the playboy mansion. As you point out, more than the men are responsible for this phenomenon.
LOL, no, I was in grad school when I heard about, then witnesssed "sandwiching" which seemed in fashion in college and presumably high school. As far as you question goes, "sandwiching" was not "rape", but sexual harassment. Now, a bed "sandwich", that would be another thing. Exactly my point, as everyone who went to college has the same tales. Unfortunately, colleges practice a form of self-censorship and image control, and so very rarely does anyone learn any lessons, so these scandals happen over and over. Perhaps, it's because there is little institutional memory as students come and go every 4 years or so. Having said all that, based upon the little info on hand, I don't think the girl will have much of a proveable case, though the footballers will suffer a pariah's disease from the notoriety. And, a parallel will likely be the Kobe case in the US.
Its the chics fault...man i'm tired of these stupid (don't want another card).... i have way too many stories about this kind of stuff, from just stories at my school to my own experiences... but its just like this girl that had been with about half the guys in our school, all of a sudden shes crying at school one monday saying that over the weekend a 25 year old guy raped her and all of the guys are just like whatever, how could someone like you get raped.... girls are for what? exactly...
Police have now apparently obtained video footage of the girl having breakfast with three of the players in the ground-floor breakfast room of The Grosvenor hotel in Park Lane, claism one of the tabolids. The girl said that is not true and such video doesn't exist.
there's just as much speculation in the above quote as there is in the papers. You'd clearly decided what happened and who's guilty before sundays NOTW story. why is is so difficult to believe that perhaps its the girl who's in the wrong rather than the men? Lets get some things straight - 1. The girl is deemed old enough by society to decide who and when she wants to have sex with 2. The number of men involved is not clear. postings on this board range from 5 to 8. 3. You don't know how drunk these men were. 4. You don't even know the names of these men so how can you commment on the size of their egos? 5. You 'doubt' they'd hear the word NO - oh please, that really is pathetic. 6. You have no idea whether this girl was 'set up' or not. You don't know what conversations were had or who agreed to what. 7. the only thing you know about 'this guy' is that he's put his side of his story. How do you know he's not the innocent party? Your final comment demonstrates just how blinkered you are - 'i will never believe this is the truth'. So are you telling me that if the police say there's no case to answer, then you'll still believe that these men are in the wrong and the girl completely innocent? I could say that you'd believe anything written in the papers, but as you've subjectively decided to discount sundays report, that wouldn't be true. You're quite entitled to your own opinion, however, instead of taking your own pre-conceived ideas and biases to form that opinion, why don't you open your mind to the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' and accept that we are a long way from finding out what happened in that hotel.
Tell you what i find ridiculous, people who take a personal experience and apply it to some other event in the belief that the two are in some way related. e.g 'When i was at school they were all up for it ....etc' somehow implies that a totally different girl in a totally different situation was also 'up for it' then of course we have the old belief that it could never be the womans fault becuase she's just an innocent, naive little girl and they are all strong, rich and powerful footballers. The only opinion i have on this sorry tale, is that people who think that either of the two are correct should keep their thoughts to themselves
You come over just as dog-minded in your beliefs on this as everyone else. And mate, if we all kept our thoughts to ourselves then there wouldnt be much point in this message board - or much else for that matter.
Presumably you are referring to my post, and you make my point. Read the original story. The protagonist assumes based upon his previous experience with women at clubs that this girl was a ready and willing participant in roasting. And, yet, how does he know that? How does he know "that a totally different girl in a totally different situation was also "up for it"? Using your very own words, makes my point. He can't just assume that because other women in his social circle have been active and willing participants, that all women will be active and willing participants. And, sure it could be the woman's fault. Then again, it sure doesn't sound like from the guy's story that she asked for a "roast", but that the guy's made it happen, based upon prior behavior. They planned it with the hotel room setup. That's a pattern, which is indicative of pre-meditation. When these guys pull a chick, do they tell her they want to "roast" her? Gee, why not? Gee, why would they wait, until the woman is in a compromised position before confronting her with the "roasting" idea? Hmm.... Now, no one is saying the girl is innocent and the footballers guilty, as we don't know all the facts, but based upon the guy's story, it does seem morally and ethically reprehensible, while probably being legally unprosecutable, as it's all he said, she said.
A classic mythology. The concept of "innocent until proven guilty", is to ENSURE the accused the CIVIL RIGHTS of the "innocent until proven guilty". It does NOT mean we have to think or assume the accused is innocent, we just have to treat them as innocent. I can think whatever I want about the accused. I can find their behavior morally reprehensible if I want to, as it's my civil right. And, I can post that opinion if I feel like it, as that's also my civil right. Nothing stops us from speculating based upon what little info that is available, but UNDERSTAND, I am free to alter my opinion as more info becomes available. I used to think everyone knew that opinions can change with better info, without having to say it, but it's clear not everyone realizes that.
Most of the people here complaining about all this have obviously not spent much of their lives getting laid or getting to know what women are really like. Not all women, but certainly, possibly the woman who was involved in this incident. They're not all angels, and some of them really get off on this kind of thing. Let's not make apologies for all women just 'cause we hope it'll help us get into bed with them.
Well, "gold digging tramps" seems a bit melodramatic, but probably not far off the mark. It does seem, reading the other side of the tale, that this has been going on a while and the young women are on to the game and willing players. Surprising as it may seem, there is nothing new about horny young adults getting it on in various ways. Videos are sold on US TV of 'coeds' baring all for the cameras, knowing they will be seen by thousands who buy these 'Wild Coeds' videos. Degraded and exploited or simply satisfying a wild streak and the desire to expose oneself in public? 1. Legalize prostitution and tax it. 2. Legalize drugs and tax them. 3. What consenting adults do is none of anyone's business. 4. Lower the age of consent to 15. 1 & 2 alone would put the US in the black again. 3 & 4 would allow us to concentrate on important issues, like health care and global warming.
Let's take me for example. I may not be an angel (even though I am). Let's assume I want to sleep with 99 men in one month. That would make me a whore. And then the 100th comes along and I say no. Does the fact that I was willing to sleep with those 99 give him the right to assume I am willing to sleep with him also?
Who 'you' are is irrelevant. We're discussing a girl who appears to have been doing exactly what she wanted to be doing. To answer your question though, no, the man does not have the right to assume you will sleep with him. Why? Because I'm sure that if you got 99 guys in a month, there were another 990 that were waiting in the wings who didn't get their shot. It's not difficult for a woman to turn down sex - it's always up to you anyway. Same as it was for this girl. Hope that the guys at least paid for her breakfast.
Just one of the lies he told. "She had this short black dress and you could see her underwear." "Back in his room, Meikle said she put his hands down her trousers, took off her underwear and after he put on a condom they started having sex." She was wearing a dress and trousers and you could still see her underwear. Quite amazing!!!
Now Sun claims the girl consented to sex with a party organiser (not Chelsea player anymore) and has given police the names of three Premiership stars she says attacked her (one from Chelsea and two from the club they can't name). http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003460813,00.jpg (Picture of one of them.)
How anyone can trust what they read in a tabloid newspaper is beyond me. To pay £10,000 to a person for their story in the midst of a police investigation is disgraceful. Self-regulation of the UK press is a joke.
It seems now there is absolute no doubt he was paid £10,000 for the story. Mister Pimp was supposed to go to the police yesterday (or so he said) to give his statement, but was nowhere to be seen all day and didn't answer his phone.
Im going to argue from the assumption for arguments sake it wasnt a rape and what the player is saying is true (not that i believe it but simply because the would be puritans are bugging me), first thing she is 17, perfectly legal, the law says shes old enough to have as many men as she wants. Secondly if she consents to have sex with a room full of premiership players that is once again her business, she is legally old enough and its her choice. Now if this isnt rape, which we are assuming for this argument, what it is is consensual LEGAL sex between two-three-nine people, if you want to have a problem with that fine, but frankly i dont think its yours or anyone elses place to question the morals of people that play football for a living as opposed to say a load of pissed up accountants having a gangbang, where is the difference? the accountants wouldnt get into the paper. rant over.
I have absolutely nothing against gang bang, but I am very much against rape. I understand you can't feel the same. You obviously don't know how it feels to be raped.
some of the people on here saying she asked for it are nothing short of disgraceful human beings. this may or not be rape but lets say it is and she had her legs wide open and decided to say no at the last minute and the guy still did it anyway. that would not be asking for it because its a womans right to chose whether she wants to be *#*#*#*#ed or not. i dont care if she is the slut of all sluts.# as far as roasting is concerned, if it is rape then i'd like to see all the footballers in question to be roasted in prison by gangs of smelly, gay, hairy arsed criminals carrying several stds just to teach these overpaid *#*#*#*#*#*#s a lesson. If it isn't rape then it is still the footballers fault for taking part in such a party with an immature heifer. The girl is not even an adult yet even though she can have sex so they should expect her to to do something stupid like cry rape after going through this ritual humiliation even though its consensual. Its immature teenage mentality. In my view a girl is not emotionally ready to have sex at 16 so the legal age should be increased to atleast 18 (a girl does go through a noticebale mental transition in these two yrs) )even though it wont make much of a difference as far as underage teen pregnancies is concerned. this problem will always be there it seems The reason for this scandal is due to piss poor player management by coaches and the club. With the salary these idiots are on you'd think the club would control a lot of their behaviour off the pitch aswell. you'd never get situations like this going on in Spain or Italy. Gangbangs obviously happen but with older girls and not teenyboppers. Maybe its due to their players having more braincells than ours. I dont know. (im sorry you can definately tell the difference between a 21/22 yr old and a 17yr old so that story by the 'party pimp' is *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#) Hopefully all this will be a deterrant to the up and coming batch of stars to keep their little tinkers in their trousers when groupies offer them sex or else they'll regret it.