SF Analysis: GER-ESP - Kassai (HUN)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Ronaldinho_M

    Ronaldinho_M New Member

    Jul 15, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    I don't think so because the attacker wasn't playing the ball, either.

    The Oersil overran the ball and was trying to put his body between the ball and the defender. He's as responsible for the contact as the defender is.
     
  2. Ronaldinho_M

    Ronaldinho_M New Member

    Jul 15, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    It's only from behind because the attacker overran the ball and was turned around to make up for it. The fact that the attacker is facing the right sideline makes it hard to call it a clear goal scoring opportunity.

    Furthermore, it was outside the box. You should watch the replay.
     
  3. seadondo

    seadondo Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Redondo Beach
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about the Puyol-Schweintsteiger contact just outside the box? Foul or no foul?
     
  4. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    That's what happened on that play. Schweinsteiger went over Puyol's leg. Puyol didn't foul.
     
  5. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    I thought the ref did not make any missteps, but, really, you can be the best referee in the world and have two surly teams unwilling to play sportingly, and you will look awful. Spain and Germany played like angels...
     
  6. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I could probably find a way to screw up that match. Probably take a swing at David Villa, that would be a pretty big talking point...until I made the players form a human pyramid.
     
  7. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I thought he did fine, but didn't really have much to do as the players were there to play and not hack each other. So I wouldn't necessarily credit him for the flow of the match as much as I would credit the players.
     
  8. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I give Kassai credit. Maybe World Cup referees don't have a pregame with the players (do they?) but he still managed to establish the tone. Any high stakes game can fall apart, and he not only held it together but kept it mostly beautiful.

    Of course, if the players had truly been itching to fight rather than to play, I doubt any referee could have contained them.
     
  9. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he did an exceptional job in a difficult game. I categorically disagree with those who think this game was easy, or that he would have had to work to mess it up. An over reaction, or falling for a dive, or a missed foul would have teetered this ship on a bad course. He was consistent, let a lot of collisions at midfield go, had stern words for players, and controlled the game. Particularly, he did not caution the Spaniard who waved his arms for dissent, but treated it just like any other possibly cautionable tackle--with a reprimand and public rebuke. He did not expect the players to deal with what he himself would not also deal with.

    This game did continue the trend of AR's missing fairly straightforward offside decisions though. I really do wonder if some of these guys simply don't get consistent experience in a stadium environment, because I can't think of any other explanation for it. I know that some of the mistakes this tourney have been from Italian and Brazilian AR's, but some of the missed offside calls today, especially by the SAR, don't have any justification.
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now lets hope UEFA actually uses his talents now.
     
  11. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To distill this - Massref uses logic; it's not clear that FIFA does
     
  12. hindudot1788

    hindudot1788 Member

    Apr 25, 2009
    Just out of curiosity, has there been one of these threads where the majority thought the ref did a good job? Seems like nobody is ever happy with the officiating
     
  13. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    With refereeing, people expect perfection from the beginning and then improvement from there. ;)
     
  14. balla

    balla Member

    Sep 16, 2004
    Melbourne,Australia
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Schweinsteiger had the ball so Puyol has to get the ball or it's a foul as he blocked Schweinsteiger getting the ball again.
     
  15. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    My biggest concern has been the deterioration of the ARs. They started the tournament nearly perfect, but in the last few matches we have seen some rather easy calls missed. I don't mean the ones where we are debating whether a foot is in front of a head where it is extremely difficult, if not impossible for the human eye to really see in full speed. However, there have been several where there is a good yard and the play has not been unusually dynamic and the ARs are missing them both ways. I think we saw several in both semis and most of the QFs.

    I think this problem is caused by overassigning. Remember, these are the same ARs who had great matches early in the tournament...Irmatov's crew was lauded for outstanding offside decisions (color commentator excepted) in the opener and were equally good in the second match. However, now in match 5 they are starting to show cracks...and rather large ones. These crews have simply been overworked with too many matches in too short of a time period.

    This is not like working a domestic league. Your preparation, focus, emotions, stress, intensity, post match high and eventual crash are all unlike anything they have ever experienced. And, they have done it 4-5 times in three weeks with travel, debriefs, and clinic work in between. Eventually, some of that simply has to wear on a person. While physically, they may be able to run as well as match 1, mentally some of the focus has to have worn off a bit over the 90 minutes. Staying sharp for 90 full minutes at that level is incredibly difficult and all of these guys can do it once or twice in a week, but to be in this pressure cooker for so long, I think we are starting to see the effects.

    Perhaps if Archundia is appointed, we will see the true benefit that his crew has not worked in the knockout rounds with better focus on the offside decisions by well rested ARs.
     
  16. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nope. You can ref that way if you want to, you won't progress past High School though.
     
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, how elitist of you. Some of us non referees have been involved with soccer for longer than you have, we just never went the ref route. But I'll pretend I am also qualified to comment, and I didn't think it was a foul either.
     
  18. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's rude and lacking in tact. I'm sorry and hope you don't come away thinking that all referees are this ill mannered.
     
  19. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, both teams came to play fairly. Great sportsmanship was shown by both teams. It did make Kassai's job easier, but give him lots of credit on foul recognition, applying advantage and most important allowing flow. Well done.
     
  20. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    Oerzil got a yellow for diving at the beginning of the tournament- Could have colored the ref's opinion of what happened. At first look, I would have called the penalty, especially from the ref's trailing perspective.

    On replay, it seems that oerzil overran the ball and goes down very easily.

    Overall, a great game by players, refs.
     
  21. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought for sure that was a foul. Then I saw the replay. That was a great no foul call. Keep playing.
     
  22. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I'm glad you agree with me. I always thought being right was better than being full of tact.
     
  23. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course not, I've been visiting the referees' forum for years.....
     
  24. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kind of. However. I've played and watched for a long time and I have my opinions. That said I recognize that those who have reffed have training and experience that I do not which is why I come here and keep quiet except to ask questions about interpretations. So I'll say I not only appreciate the view of the elite here, but I also appreciate the regulars pointing out who the elite are. If I want eegulat Joe post match pontificating I stay in the knockout round post match thread.
    Oh and if Cesar gets back he should leave up the community's full throated defense of MassachusettsRef's contributions. It is a fitting tribute to what we have all benefitted from for a long long time.
     
  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are going to have to disagree on this one then. There are no minimum qualifications to have an opinion, as long as you can support it and are civil about it, and no amount of reffing experience or qualifications means you are always right, as this Cup has proven......
     

Share This Page