Sexism

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by johan neeskens, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Wow...and I thought my comments were bad. :eek:
     
  2. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I think it's a little rich you post that in a thread complaining about mods allowing sexism, yet (a) you never bothered reporting the post, and (b) it happened a mere 10 minutes before you linked to it.

    The NED mods are good guys and they'd deal with something like that on sight. I've reported it now.
     
  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not one to defend her, but that post is over the line and [self edit]. (see mod board)

    Further, she has brought up this issue before, yet very little seems to be done. And so what if it happened five minutes or five months, it was still said, a culture of BS that she (and I) think should change.

    That said, I do not know the Ned Mods all that well, so I don't know how they will ultimately handle this situation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I think that's an unrealistic thing to expect. This is a website populated overwhelmingly by males, mostly younger males at that. Given general societal attitudes, it stands to reason there's going to be a lot of sexism floating around behind the scenes. There's nothing any moderator or administrator can do about that.

    Therefore I think you have to expect that when ad hominem attacks occur it's inevitable those directed at female posters are often going to be sexist. Just as those directed at Liverpool fans are going to be about them being thieves, and Newcastle fans are about them being toothless chavs, and Americans being fat couch potatoes, and Australians being criminals, and any other stereotypes that BS posters subscribe to.

    I totally agree that moderators shouldn't tolerate sexism and should treat it extremely seriously when they come across it. But to blame them not for failing to act, but for the fact that these personal attitudes exist at all is pretty ridiculous.
     
  5. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    If he called Twente names I couldn't have cared less. There is no reason whatsoever to play the sexism card, as far as I'm concerned but thank you dear mod for clarifying to me what the standard on this board is. I'll be equally sexist in future.

    I never report posts or neg rep people as I consider that a fascist thing to do. I would rather have this discussion out in the open.
     
  6. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Way to miss the point. I'm not defending the post, I'm just wondering what point you're pursuing by posting it here.

    Is it that mods ignore this stuff? Well, you didn't report it or give anyone time to see it. When I reported it, it was gone within an hour.

    Is it that posters hold these opinions, and they resort to sexist attacks? Well, there's not much mods can do about that except delete and infract when it happens. In which case, refer above paragraph.
     
  7. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Because I think in general that it is a good idea that mods such as yourself, and the supermods are aware that this continues to go on and that it is engrained in BigSoccer. As I said in that thread, I'll leave it up to the mods on the Dutch board to deal with that particular post as they see fit.

    And I would like to call on all other female posters to use this thread to link to sexist posts. We don't have to put up with this girls. Let's name and shame them.
     
  8. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Fair enough.

    However, I know that if there was a sexist post on my board, I would prefer a poster reported it and gave me a chance to deal with it before they posted it in a thread about how mods ignore sexism.

    That's all I'm saying.
     
  9. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    I'm not accusing mods, I have a good relationship with the mod on the Dutch board in fact. You shouldn't take this personally. I'm worried about the cognitive dissonance thing. Most people on BigSoccer probably aren't sexist, at all. But when they see other posters say sexist things and get away with it, it gradually becomes OK to say sexist things and they believe the sexist things they aren't actually sexist.
     
  10. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    No offense - but you're off base here. I asked JN to post here to give me an idea what she was talking about because I never see this stuff. I don't see this as an indictment of the mods and how they ignore it - but I want to be aware when this is going on to ensure we not tolerate it.
     
  11. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    There's nothing sexist about calling a woman a woman. Don't see why it's worth the yellow card. I was just following the same faulty logic she did.
     
  12. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Just want the record to be clear.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    For the record, I didn´t ask for you to be carded, and people who have known me on here for years know that I think that´s a childish system to start off with. I also want you to know that I´m fine with you belittling my football team or my posts based on football arguments. I´m hardly a demure little wallflower and can take it on the chin. If you´re making sexist remarks however you´re taking the discussion beyond football. I will not have women in general be ridiculed and belittled and will lash out at you.
     
  14. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't care about the card. I'm sure it will go away at some time. Just so we're clear, I have nothing against women. Not even against women having an opinion about football. It strictly personal. :)

    So we're even more clear. You might find similar insinuations and faulty reasoning.

     
  15. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Good to know. I´ll make sure to put in a couple of comments about small dicks and big cars next time we have a discussion. And let it be noted I have nothing against men either. I am married to one and am mother to one.
     
  16. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Just be aware you'll be punished with a yellow card. :)
     
  17. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Her faulty logic concerned identifying you with Ajax, not because you are male. You said her logic was faulty because she was female, not a twenty supporter.
     
  18. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I didn't.
     
  19. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's try a little exercise...
    Do you see a problem now?

    Thank you johan neeskens. I generally do not speak up about the sexist posts -- only occasional complaints to individual posters about frequent use of rape metaphors and one complaint about a bigsoccer official email with sexist language. But I will now try to follow your good example.

    There's generally (but not always) strong moderator and poster reaction to racist posts but not the sexist ones. I generally try to ignore the lockerroom behavior, unthinking and intentional sexist behavior as I only have so much energy & time. But there's no mistaking that much of bigsoccer is very unwelcoming (at the least) and hostile (at the worst) for women posters.

    I severely limit the forums where I post b/c of the environment. I lurk/read in some other forums to get some info on specific teams/players but do not post there. In fact I'm very hesitant to make this post b/c of the potential for backlash.

    One of the reasons I'm not a premium member is that I refuse to spend my discretionary money on a business/community that repeatedly demonstrates such hostility.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Listen - maybe you aren't taking any of this seriously, maybe there are some cultural differences at play here, but everyone can see what you posted and for you to continue to pretend like it's something else either as a wind-up or willful obtuseness or genuine ignorance, you aren't helping this discussion or making me think the yellow card was in any way too harsh.

    No one should be mocked on BigSoccer for being honest about who they are. This place often is about anonymity - which can be good and bad - on the one hand, we are all equals in ways that we might not be elsewhere, but on the other, it's the folks who are open and share things about themselves that are the ones that often make this place even more interesting. To mock someone for being open - or to try to use it against him or her just because you don't like what they are saying sucks in the extreme. If you or others can't or refuse to see this without us telling you, we are going to deal with it harshly when we come across it.

    Either stay out of this thread or participate in the discussion in a useful/constructive way.

    Thanks.
     
    1 person likes this.
  21. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why did you bring up her being a woman below?

     
  22. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent work, Mods.
     
  23. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    I´ve been on BigSoccer for a long time and know to many people here and have too many friends here to pretend I´m not a woman. There´s a reason why I didn´t pick a woman´s name though. I want to be taken seriously for my posts on football, and when some people find out you´re a woman, you´re just not. Which is highly ironic seeing my past in football, but that's not even relevant.

    I´m willing to bet there´s a lot of women posters on here with neutral or male user names for the exact same reason. Which is rather sad.
     
  24. Crisstti

    Crisstti Member+

    May 29, 2010
    Chile
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It sure isn't a bad idea to link to sexist posts here, but I at least don't see a problem with reporting them. I've done it and it seems very effective, and it is probably easier that way fro moderators to deal with them.

    Yeah, this. I find it actually rather shocking. I wonder if it's just in football (and otehr sports?) in the English language, because I had never seen/heard it in Spanish...


    Well, my user name might be neutral but it has nothing to do with that. I just use the same one everywhere, or I would surely forget about it... :D
     
  25. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Fair enough. I do tend to be overly defensive of people I regard as good mods.

    Apologies to Johan/others for getting the wrong end of the stick.

    No.

    Racism, sexism, bigotry - they're facts of life. No mod or admin can stop people holding particular attitudes, or even posting particular things. All we can do is have a zero tolerance of it and deal with it harshly when it occurs (an aspect of my post you conveniently cropped out). Hopefully this reduces the frequency of it occurring in the future.

    However, at the end of the day all moderating is post facto. It's naïve to think that anyone can ever guarantee that you won't see stuff posted that offends you. And it's naïve to think that on a website populated almost exclusively by young males you will never see sexism.

    Personally I don't think mods should be judged by what is posted on their boards, but how they react to it and deal with the offenders.
     

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