Re: [R] Sevilla vs. Real Madrid Pt. 2: Wailing/Gnashing/Moaning Thread I'm not sugarcoating it, I am putting it into perspective. This result in itself says nothing about our ability to win the league or the CL, unless you think that winning the league necessitates 38 wins or that we can't make it through a difficult CL tie with a 2-1 defeat away. And 2-1 is not a great result, but it is quite a decent one.
Well..reading all of that was fun. The most obvious thing to take from yesterday is Marcelo's performance. He cannot play well against wingers as talented as Navas.No more of that Pellegrini. The second most obvious thing was Xabi Alonso's performance... he was not dictating shit. He was on the field to help out Guti pass the ball. He didn't do that though. Third was Benzema... he has so much talent and so little fire...it's a shame. Casillias literally saved us, if it wasn't for him Pellegrini might be back in Chile by now. Pepe was his usual self.. but I was also very impressed with Diarra, he really is a rock in the middle of the park. Sevilla deserved it, and we have many problems, but patience for once would be nice.
i thought the main posisitive out of last nights game was m.diarra. WOW after so many months out, he made half the team look like amateurs and im glad he stayed. We will need him!! someone said on this thread that they dont know what MP is doing in training as the team looks disconnected...i couldnt agree more. OK granted, it has only been what 3+ months but even now, we should be starting to see the jigsaw fall into place but the last two or three games, i just dont see it. In my original post match analysis in the previous thread i said this. i just hope MP gets his act together and get the team defending as one because at the moment, it is split. We have 6 defenders and 4 attackers and there is no team play going on what-so-ever..... i may just shoot myself in the foot here, but we seen this when perez was here in his first term....just who is calling the shots?? im not sure now
Re: [R] Sevilla vs. Real Madrid Pt. 2: Wailing/Gnashing/Moaning Thread Thanks a lot! I try my best to watch everything live, but when I can't I can generate ALMOST as much excitement watching the game after as long as I can avoid the outcome before.
Re: [R] Sevilla vs. Real Madrid Pt. 2: Wailing/Gnashing/Moaning Thread Yes, like I said earlier: we didn’t lose a title last night.
Remember them losing pathetically at Old Dump last season 0:4? They bent over totally by reserving their best players that night.
Re: [R] Sevilla vs. Real Madrid Pt. 2: Wailing/Gnashing/Moaning Thread If this was the only occasion then the result will say nothing about our ability to perform in the Champions League, but it's the same thing for 5 years now. When we are up against the big teams and the pressure is on we need to man up. The entire unsuccessful era in Europe for Real Madrid has not been down to the quality of the players, per se, but their attitude as they all seem way to intimidated by the shirt, more scared to make an mistake than put an effort in which, ironically, ends up with us making mistakes all over. You rewatch the game against Sevilla, no one is closing down, players are literally jogging around the pitch, no aggression what so ever. I am going to defend Marcelo a little. He got ripped apart but it was such a poor performance, especially for the first goal, that it's something I would not attribute to the players skill overall. People have bad games, and he just had an extremely poor one, throughout this season so far he has looked Ok. Furthermore, himself, Drenthe, Lass and few others are the only ones who you can see make an evident effort everytime they play.
Because teams new they would be playing real madrid next. They had fear for barcelona, so some teams decided to put more effort against us and thought they would have a better chance of gaining 3 points than against barca.
Re: [R] Sevilla vs. Real Madrid Pt. 2: Wailing/Gnashing/Moaning Thread Why do you people keep bringing up Robben? It's not like we could have "relied" on him cause he'll be most likely injured himself. See: Bayern Munch: "Robben possibly out for two months... surgery... blah blah" EDIT: And oh, CR9 would definitely have an impact if he was on. Would we win? perhaps, but a player that good is definitely going to influence the game one way or another.
I agree and I don't know why there should be any shock about Sevilla winning at home. However, the way they won is astounding considering how much we spent. So kind of you to point them out, yet you leave out the reason we conceded the 2nd goal. Raul. Now give him a lashing like you gave those guys up there. ... Marcelo got a well deserved bashing for allowing Navas to jump over him, yet only a few here have pointed out Raul allowing Renato to have a free header. Aren't they the same offense? I guess one gets the benefit the other can't. Here is an example, Marca day of the match: Tranquillo! No Cristiano... no worries we have Raul! Now Marca the day after the match: They did so well to highlight Marcelo being left one on one against one of the best wingers in the world, yet they don't use Raul's name ("El 7") in a way to diminish his role of the second goal. Anyways..... Key Points: - I honestly expected to draw or lose a close game so when I heard the scoreline I wasn't that surprised. I saw the game and almost threw up. What kind of shit was this?? - Everybody in this team is dispensible besides Cristiano, Casillas, Pepe and Lass(in form). - Where are those who said we shouldn't buy Cristiano or that he wasn't needed once we over spent on Kaka? - Although Sevilla were annoying, they deserved to win and if not for Casillas we'd have been thrashed 3, 4, or 5to 1. - We had Guti, Diarra, Xabi and Kaka playing in midfield and couldn't retain possession to save our lives. That's with Diarra having a decent game. - I will say this again, our strikers (besides Ruud of course) look confused and are basically useless in this formation. Our midfield is non-existent. - Pellegrini's 4-2-2-2 is weak in midfield and incoherent with our personnel, again I hope he realizes this and adapts. I'm not saying he should completely throw away his style, I'm just saying he should be a little more open-minded with things so he lasts longer. That way he'll actually get his chance to mold the team. Players: Raul - Missed nearly a week of practice yet looked better than Benzema in the first half.. with that was still poor, that's says a lot about Benzema. In fact he was very poor and looked slow throughout. Only in Madrid can one miss that many practices a week yet get the nod over another. Anyways, he's at fault for the second goal for letting Renato get a free header. Had he did his job we could have at least secured a point even though we were horrid. Benzema - Invisible or shit isn't enough to describe his performance. If he's going to be passive he should sit and watch Ruud who while being a decade older can play and impose himself in games 10 times better. Kaka - Invisible and wasteful. I said this in the summer that this guy is not the same guy who I "Donde Esta Kaka'd" for two years ago. He can't carry this team by himself. He struggled with just controlling simple balls, wasted opportunities to pass and kept possession too long at times. Not to throw him under the bus, but for the amount we spent on him, he was suppose to step up and make this game his. Guti - Wasteful, bad passing, poor ball retention/possession. Back to old Guti. Well kudos for the strong start and to the bench you go. I don't blame him for getting mad btw. If somebody came at me like that or dare spit near my face... Diarra - Did decently, looked lively and of course backheels galore. Only competent player in midfield. Made a small errors here and there but destroyed, provided a little and tried to impose himself like he was three persons instead of one. Xabi - Slow, wasteful and pathetic. Turnover machine, who did little retention of the ball and more errors. I was amazed that nothing in him 'clicked' and told him to retain possession and control the pace when we were getting ran over in the first half. He should be the one controlling the pace of the game not making error after error and getting ran out of the stadium. Xabi has been a huge disappointment for me and he's amazingly avoided much deserved criticism this season. Ramos - A couple great blocks on shots in the first half, then it all went down hill and fast. Defends poor, crosses poor, positions poor and is lazy so can be easily beat by the quicker attackers. He must not want to be a RB, because he's begging to go to CB. Marcelo - Utter shit defending, wasteful while attacking. After seeing this game, maybe I was wrong about this kid developing into being a decent LB. He can't defend or position himself worth a damn and his confidence is so easily shattered... look out when that happens, because when it does everybody gets a free ride on him. The question is will Pellegrini show confidence in him or finish him off by throwing him on the bench to die out? The question also is when they (teammates/coaches) know his weakness why don't they help him cover instead of throwing him to the lions (Navas)? Pepe - Solid at times, shaky at times because of virtually no midfield in front of him. Did well to score the goal that neither Benzema, Raul, Higuain, Kaka, etc could come close to getting. Albiol - Shaky for the most part and beaten a couple times by the pace attackers of Sevilla. At first he looked solid, but covering Marcelo's sorry ass for 90+ minutes can wear on you. Casillas - Has found his form again and IMO opinion best GK in the world. Oh and LOL @ Ray Hudson saying Lev Yashin would come back from the dead after Casillas save early in the 2nd Half. Subs: Higuain - Is begging to be sold this summer as a scape goat. Was just as wasteful as any other just forcing the issue instead of passing. He better find his footing and fast, because Perez has his eye on Jovetic. VDV - Tried to do something and failed at whatever it was he was attempting. I did notice that he did a better job in retaining possession of the ball then others did. Granero - Same as VDV, accept he didn't fail because he didn't try anything to force the issue. Other notes: Pellegrini rolls the dice and tries to show he can run the show without Cristiano. WRONG MOVE. If Cristiano says he wants to play and we're playing in a big test, let him. Benzema-Raul does not work. It seems whenever we play them together both do nothing and just go invisible. When you take one off the other gets into the game and begins imposing themselves. Pellegrini must stop with the antics, play on or the other and use another solution as the partner with his 4-2-2-2. I can't wait for Ruud to come back! If Pellegrini is going to play either Marcelo or Drenthe in a big match he must give adequate cover in midfield to help in defending. Those two just don't cut it defending against the better attackers. I mean who didn't expect Navas to rape Marcelo? Our defense is shaky? Yes. However are we moving like a team or like individuals? Those back four basically have a non-existent midfield in front of them and take on wave of attack after attack, yet we expect something different when we change the personnel. Again, Pellegrini needs to be more flexible with his formation and style. Forcing his formation will see him being sacked before the year ends. A great coach will be able to adapt and not be so narrow minded. We changed damn near everything and are getting the same results. Goes back to what I said last season. There is one common denominator through all of this... Disclaimer: I don't hate Raul, Benzema, Guti, Xabi, Kaka, Marcelo, Ramos, etc, etc.. Here's to Cristiano never getting injured again! EVER!! Oh and I mean EVER!
This, we all say that Raul, Higuain and Benzema are in low form, but beside that I think they really don't find their place in the system yet.
Played like shit, as did 7 other players. I have no problem admitting that his mistake on marking Renato caused the goal.. although there was a lot of movement and confusion in the box.. and Raul is not a defender. Xabi Alonso , Marcelo and Benzema were the worst of each line which is why I mentioned them. Kaka had a pretty bad game based on his standards, as did Guti, but they were not as bad as the players mentioned above IMO.
You didn't though, until I pointed you out. Those are very poor excuses. Don't blame movement and confusion, it was his man and he let him get a free header. Also to say he isn't a defender is pointless here because he's defending a corner not asked to be a sweeper. Considering how much praise we've given him in past years for defending, pressuring and hard work that's hardly an excuse as well. Honestly though, when you leave a young learning FB with very questionable defensive skill alone on an island with one of the best wingers on the planet, what do you expect? Marcelo was no doubt shit, but it ain't like we made the adjustment to help the situation. Ramos was better by how much? Benzema was shit and invisible but Raul who played 90 minutes was much worse even though his first half was a little better. FFS he handed a guy who has scored how many headers on us a free header for the win. Only God would have saved Gago, Marcelo, Higuian, etc if one of them allowed Renato that header. Xabi was crap like I said but who was the one who kept us on our back foot most of the game? Yes, Guti with his perfect passes to Sevilla players which led to counter attacks which our non-existent midfield didn't help with and left our defense totally exposed. IMO, we should hold Guti, Kaka and Raul more responsible for what went on (they are the stars/leaders out there) and not the two youngsters. I think it's laughable to excuse on and not the other.
The only one praising Raul is Marca, and they overdo it. None of that-praise- here. Benzema was useless. He did nothing. Raul gave him a ball to his feet and he kicked air. Raul played shit. Benzema was just completely useless though. Nobody's denying that.When I mentioned the confusion and movement in the box it was for a reason, defenders are better at set-piece defending than attackers. They train for it a lot more, and so have the anticipation to deal with the confusion and movement a lot better. That doesn't mean that Raul didn't make a mistake, he did. But their were far worse mistakes by the coach and the other players that I mentioned IMO.
It took him time to be immense, and it will take him time with us. That position will take more time to function than any other on the pitch. He's in contact with everyone on that pitch, 10 new players. Im a huge fan of Xabi, and im not worried about him. Im worried about how long itll take Pellegrini to realize our best team doesnt involve two strikers. We needed more control of that game, we attacked them very individually, and couldnt get hold of the game for a good enough period to put them under enough pressure. I was surprised we didnt bring in Granero for a striker to gain more possesion and try and dictate play more. We were too direct, and sometimes that isnt the best way to go about it.
I recall mentioning this(in the past, but thanks for reminding me), when raul is marking players during corners, if you look at the zurich game or one of the games a few weeks back. If anything pellegrini would have picked this up. But agree with you on the flexibility of formation part, btw, whats your idea of a flexible formation(care to post your designs?) edit: I think WB is correct, we need to play with one striker. When we have more midfielders, we seem to play alot better than with two strikers. It would be nice to see a 4-5-1 formation, that involves more midfielders.
It's very easy to bash individuals for their perfomances.....what about the coach? Let's forget about the last match ...Look at any of the match RM has played this year so far? Did RM look like a team? Did it show any style of their own? Did MP shown any special tactic on the feild? Did the team looked anytime like a winning combination?Di anybody in this forum felt like the way RM was playing , it's gonna win the league or for that matter CL? The answer is a big NO....Did any of the players looked like motivated when the team is playing including Ronaldo? This rotation is doing more harm IMO...and it's demoralizing and demotivating the individuals...The individuals are playing without taking any risks ..if they make some mistakes they know that they will get substituted.....The team should have a back bone with some individuals who needs to play full time and should gel...then only the passing will improve. If you take individuals Sevilla is not better than RM. Look at Renato who was the playmaker for Sevilla.He got excellent support and passes from his Midfield and defence..His forwards were making overlaping runs and he knew exactly where to pass..which in turn improved their attacks..What service did KAKA get to create something?KAKA is not a maradonna ,Rivaldo or Romario to create something out of nothing... And I don't think Ronaldo's presence would have helped much.If our midfeild was realeasing the ball early and acuurately ..yes he could have... But that was not the case.And if Ronaldo alone can win the matches , with a very decent team like Portugal would not have struggled to qualify for the WC. He could have just run at the defence at will and scored..or he could have simply put 3-4 free kicks at the back of the net at will..Football is a team game ..you can not always depend upon the individual brilliance.... Ronaldo can easily be manmarked the way Robben was given the treatment in the past years... So unless RM start puting their sh#$%t together and play like a team ...it's gonna be a very difficult season... And it's a world Cup year and I don't see any player playing his arse off and in the end would like to get injured 'n miss the buss to WC.
Different system which he has to adapt to. I'd expect him to adapt by now but with this system we actually need to retain much more possession (some his fault) and move the ball around quicker for him to get more comfortable. I'm not speaking of after the game in that sentence. I was obviously speaking of the years prior which is true. Raul was useless as well. He did nothing. He watched as Renato freely headed the ball into our goal, then raised his hands at the sky in shock. Yes, that was your man Raul and Raul was just if not more useless as Raul. I'm again in awe about how a player (who is older and not the star/neccessity guy he was before) can start after missing so much practice. How could you have denied it when you didn't bring it up in the first place. You bashed the players you wanted and left out the one who should have prevented the second goal from occurring. More bullshit excuses. Bullshit excuses you haven't afforded anybody except Raul and Guti. Again, NO. The worst mistake you can make is what both Marcelo and Raul did. - How the hell can you stand their frozen and let a guy (child-like body) jump over you and head a goal in? - How the hell can you as captain take a play off and allow a guy free, who has been a nemesis in the past, to head yet another goal in? As horrible as we played and Pellegrini managed the situation had Marcelo jumped and Raul not taken a play off we'd have won or gotten a draw. Those two are the worst mistakes of the game and the last one by the captain and leader of the team is the worst of all. Yet you've done well to excuse and dismiss it, but again God forbid if that were Gago, Drenthe, Higuain or again Marcelo.......... eh?
My answer to above, when was this team assembled? The summer of 2009! So you would play, the same starting 11 for the last 7 games? From Sept 12, we have had two games a week, even with subs, players do get fatigued. This isnt even counting form of players ie if benzema or kaka or raul sucked for that period, you are suggesting to keep playing them because they need full time playing? And when was this squad assembled? Summer of 2009, you really starting to think its gonna be like the brazil team from the 70's? Sevilla has almost the same set of players for at least 3 seasons. Well he actually would, with his presence he would suck atleast two players minimum, therefore, opening up spaces for his teammates. You are making sound like sevilla was parking the bus or something? Have you seen their manager? You need go and watch his time with us and you will realise that he is not a very good manager. That is very true, it is a team game but individual brilliance is also neccessary at times because that's what defines a game. And when was this squad assembled? Summer of 2009, like YS said, Patience is a virtue we truly need at RM. That's cruel to talk about our team like that. Shame on you.
You keep talking about how we needed more control in the game. Of course you're right but one of the main reasons we were lacking control was due to the poor play of a player you're basically giving a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Why sacrifice a striker to bring on Granero to shoulder responsibilities Alonso should be able to handle with his eyes closed? I'm sorry but Alonso doesn't have the luxury of time. He was bought here (and not cheaply either) to be the guy who tied it all together for this team. Performances like his last few are not going to cut it, it's time for him to start living up to the hype. I know he can but he's got to start now otherwise it doesn't matter who or what our "best team" consists of, it's going to continue to be more of the same of what we're already seeing.
^ he is right tho. benzema is young, new to madrid and trying to adjust so has an excuse for a poor game. raul is a Rm veteran, was rested in midweek and played the full 90 minutes yestaerday but did nothing except let renato score. it literally would have been better to have played with 10 men - someone else may have covered renato for his goal and kaka, benz may have had one less obstacle to play around. Raul also happens to be captain but where were his much heralded leadership qualities that you all keep telling me about? I certainly didn't see them yesterday.