Set Pieces

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by DigitalTron, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    This isn't just a formation thread, but I'm going to divide the initial post into two to make it shorter. Here's my proposed formation for set pieces during the year.

    Convey---------POST-GOAL-POST----------------

    --------------Petke--Nelsen--Santino-------Etch-
    ------------------Stewart--Ivanov---------------

    ----------Dema---------Olsen--------------------



    ------------------Reyes--------------------------
    --------------------MIDFIELD--------------------

    This is an example of a corner-kick from the left. But Etch and Convey could easily switch so that Convey would take the corner from the right. While I do not advocate Convey taking all or even the majority of free kicks, I do think his accuracy on corner kicks should see him inherit the lion's share of corners.

    -Tron
     
  2. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Besides Etch, Convey and Stoichkov, who else can take corners/free kicks?

    Sachin
     
  3. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Stewart, I imagine (at least other than PKs ;) )
     
  4. mellon002

    mellon002 Member

    Jan 24, 2003
    Towson, MD
    Stewart should take corners. He was the one who served on John O'Brien's goal in the World Cup.
     
  5. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Set Pieces Part 2

    IMHO, DC United's complete and utter ineffectiveness on set pieces over the last few seasons is unacceptable. When we had ATC and Albright there was enough of a threat that someone like Moreno would be defended by a lesser aerial defender, and we could generate some goals. But since ATC's departure, we have completely stunk. Part of this is service, and part of it is the lack of targets, and part is simply horrid finishing. Here's what I belive needs to be done.

    SERVICE:
    1. Take Etch off of the free kicks most of the time. Let him take 20% at most. Shift primary responsibility to Convey and Hristo. These are our two most accurate crossers. Dema and Olsen should take some as well.

    2. We need to have a system where the server knows who will be going to each post, so that he has at most 3 choices. I'd plant Petke at one post, and either Nelsen or Santino at the other. Santino is no aerial threat whatsoever, but having Nelsen in the center is always a good option. The server needs to know who will be where, so that they can place the service where they want depending upon defensive pairings.

    TARGETS:
    1. United only has 3 starters with both size and aerial ability, Nelsen, Petke and Ivanov. These should be our primary options. As all 3 are essentially defenders, we need to re-organize our offense for set pieces.

    2. Spacing is poor. We need to spread out our primary finishers putting one at each post, and if we have a third, placing them in the center. Too many defenders packed into the box makes it very easy to phsyically push us out of position to finish, so spread those defenders out.

    3. We have players who can score that are not big targets, we need to use them to their best advantages. Agile players can head the ball well too, just as Twellman does. Let Stewart get a running start, so put him farther back in hopes that he can use his speed to beat his defender to a spot where he can finish. Also, having him back allows him to feint a run and remain in good position for a secondary shot from distance, another of his strengths.

    4. Likewise, both Olsen and Dema can break up counters, and provide nice secondary service on rebounds, and put in some quality shots from distance. They would be well suited to provide the deeper options for switching fields, providing the server a short option, and collecting rebounds.

    5. Reyes' best assets are his speed and tackling abilities, so he's the best choice to sweep this situation by matching up at midfield. Obviously, if the other team has two players at midfield, Ivanov needs to be held back as well. With Olsen/Dema delaying the counters and Reyes/Ivanov sweeping behind them, we wouldn't be that exposed defensively. If the opponents decide not to pack the box but rather set up for a counter, then we pull Dema, Olsen or Santino back to match up. This would be great for United as it creates a lot of space in the box and our chance of scoring off the set piece goes up dramatically.

    FINISHING:
    1. While we attempt to increase the finishers via the roster renovation, we need to use what we have. When we had Pope and Nelsen, we very rarely used more than one at a time offensively on set pieces. I'm radically advocating shifting players around to take the non-aerial threats farther from the goal and putting the big guys in a position to actually score.

    2. By putting guys like Stewart, Kovalenko and Olsen in the central third of the field, I think we significantly increase our chance to score off of rebound distance shots and rebound second-service opportunities.

    3. Rehearsed plays. We need to be certain that this is more akin to an NFL wide receiver reading the coverage and adjusting his route. Both the quarterback (server) and receiver (finisher) need to read it the same way, so we need to have an established system, game plan, and strategy. This all needs to be practiced. That means stressing set plays at the expense of stressing some other aspects of the game.

    4. The rule is that everyone plays defense so the midfielders/forwards that are asked to move back temporarily must diligently hold the fort until Ivanov, Nelsen and Petke can get back into position and release them. It's a team game, and Ray has assembled a good cast of two-way players, so we need to understand that nobody releases offensively without cover. The attackers continue to play defense until the returning defender is completely settled defensively. Only then does the defender release the attacker back into the offense.

    I realize this is all kind of radical stuff, but our current tactics just do not work.

    -Tron
     
  6. TCompton

    TCompton Member

    Oct 21, 2002
    Alexandria
    Re: Set Pieces Part 2

    I don't think that Ivanov looked all that tall from the US/ARGIE game. I'm not sure I would put him in this class... maybe he's got mad vertical or something I don't know about, but I was a little disapointed w/ the size of our hairy chested bugarian... but...you know... size doesn't matter, right?

    Samo United
     
  7. mellon002

    mellon002 Member

    Jan 24, 2003
    Towson, MD
    Where did you see him at the US/Argie game?
     
  8. greatscott

    greatscott Member+

    Dec 21, 2002
    Richmond
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    good post tron. lotsa info
     
  9. Th4119

    Th4119 Member+

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    I was wondering this, too.
     
  10. greatscott

    greatscott Member+

    Dec 21, 2002
    Richmond
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    y yo
     
  11. rymannryan

    rymannryan New Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    N.N., Virginia
    I don't think Ivanov is tall. I recall reading he's short in one of the practice reports or something.
     
  12. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    there was a US/Argentina viewing party at the exchange and many guys on the team, including ivanov came down and then dave introduced them to everyone. i have seen him at a couple of events now and he isn't really very big, he isn't tiny but i too was suprised at his size, not that it necessarily matters.

    i am more worried about defending set peices as opposed to attacking at this point. our guys are pretty small (it has seemed to me the last couple years we are one of the smaller teams in MLS but i don't know for sure) and we also have a small keeper, not that he isn't a nice keeper, but he can't control his area against crosses the way a bigger keeper can. nick is never going to be that type of keeper and that is always going to put some strain on our defenders. it will be necessary to be very positional and tactical defending set pieces.
     
  13. SteveWWJ

    SteveWWJ Member

    Jan 28, 2003
    Reston, VA
    Ivanov over 5'10"

    Ivanov is definitely taller than 5'10", as he was standing beside me (5'10") for a while at the US/Argie viewing party at the Exchange... My guess would be he's at least 5'11" but probably 6' even.
     
  14. schmuckatelli

    schmuckatelli New Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    According to dcunited.com, Ivanov goes 6'0", which puts him just a shade under Quaranta and Nelsen (6'1") and Petke (6'2"). I'd use him on set pieces.
     
  15. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I was basing the Ivanov assessment on what I've read. I haven't seen him play at all nor have I seen him in person.

    -Tron
     
  16. TCompton

    TCompton Member

    Oct 21, 2002
    Alexandria
    I was standing on a chair in the back of the room when I saw Ivanov, so just about everyone probably seemed shorter than they really are.
     
  17. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Obviously David Stokes, at 6'3, has the potential to be a target for set pieces. I see him in the mold of a Matt Behncke of Dallas who, with good service, should be able to consistently win headers offensively. When he gains enough experience to play consistently, he's going to be a great asset.

    But Stokes is yet another defender. What do you guys think about all of our primary targets being defenders?

    -Tron
     
  18. TCompton

    TCompton Member

    Oct 21, 2002
    Alexandria
    Defenders don't bother me as targets too much. As long as we've got some speed to cover for them when the set play is through. Of course, if we scored more off of set plays, I'd let them walk back.

    As a defender myself, I've always liked the opportunity to get myself in the box without having to worry about getting there on my own. ...never was a fancy attacker.

    What's the word on Stokes anyway. I don't remember hearing his name all that often.
     
  19. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    this doesn't bother me so much because we aren't a team built to serve a lot of high balls into the box, but much more about guys who can play different places, overlap and create chances on the ground. clearly none of our top offensive players are out there based on their size or consistent ability to finish with their heads, though plenty of the smaller guys--convey (though he is getting taller), olsen, stewart have won head balls due to positioning or running.
     
  20. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    With Nate Jaqua and Casey Schmidt (6th rounder!) showing well as target forwards in the pre-season, does DC United need a forward who is an aerial presence in the box?

    -Tron
     
  21. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    i'd like to see a better threat in the air up front just so opponents wouldn't be able to as easily sit pack and pack it in a the end of halves and games.
     
  22. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reducing The Threat?

    DigitalTron said:

    "...SERVICE:
    1. Take Etch off of the free kicks most of the time. Let him take 20% at most..."

    I agreed with everything you proposed <good info>, except this first part... if Marco cannot be a threat, at any time, with well-placed corner and free shots, why use him at all? As a matter of fact, Marco carried what little offensive was evident last year, or did I watch different teams? The man is getting old and slow, admittedly, and the days of the old bolivian diablo at center may be sooner than most folks care to admit. I would recommend that "Etch" take as many free kicks as possible, certainly as many as he is capable of accurately placing, while he is healthy. DigitalTron: could you explain why you'd reduce diablo's threat with free kicks? Is there someone else in MLS better at free kicks? I didn't understand this at all... I'd say more but 'Knave' will probably delete it anyway!

    Inthenet
     
  23. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Re: Reducing The Threat?

    Please check your private messages.
     
  24. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    anybody know how we looked defending and attacking from set pieces against KC?
     
  25. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Re: Reducing The Threat?

    Sure. Over the past two seasons Etch has taken a ton of corner kicks, free kicks and indirect kicks. We have been pitiful on all of these set pieces. While Etch was, at one time, devestating on these, that time doesn't appear to be coming back.

    I'd take Etch off of 100% of corners. Convey is excellent at them and both Olsen and Dema are OK as well. On free kicks I'd probably have Stewart, Hristo, Olsen and Dema compete for them. I might try Santino for those as well since he has a very strong outside shot. Etch has shown the ability to take these, so we could have him in there as an option to occasionally take one, but I wouldn't have him as the primary free kick taker any more.

    One thing that stands out since Rongen's time was that DC United wins a lot of corner and free kicks. Our possession offense has created set pieces galore. The problem is that we have the worst finishing rate in MLS. Watching the games, the service on set pieces is spotty at best. Our finishing has been even worse, but that's not the entire problem IMHO.

    Watching Convey's service in the US youth teams, and seeing him set up 2 header goals to Bocanegra for the full national team, I've seen no evidence to point to his ability at the international level not translating to the MLS level. I think Petke and Nelsen give us targets who can finish on set pieces. Now we need to get them service.

    I think highly of Etch, but his game is eroding with age. It's not a uniform thing. Some pieces go faster than others. I think his crossing ability has dropped past the point where he should take the corner kicks. I think his free kicks haven't eroded as much yet, so I can see him in the mix for some of those.

    -Tron
     

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