Serie D (Italy) scandal

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Kebbie Gazauzkas, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    It seems as if the match was abandoned after the attack on the official. I wonder why play was restarted that quickly, any Italian referees here?

    [ame="http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bmBluAp7Q"]YouTube - Mazara-Villabate sosp.[/ame]

    I guess that most of the players would receive lengthy bans, such behaviour is not to be tolerated.
     
  2. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    It appears that for some reason the first goal is denied. There is no way that the restart was a kickoff. Hard to tell but the CR does not seem to signal goal, the camera follows the celebration, but the AR never goes past them to take up his kick off position.

    My guess is there was no goal, but a foul of some sort and the restart was a FK for the defense.

    No idea what really happened.
     
  3. pumpkinpie

    pumpkinpie Member

    Aug 12, 2008
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First of all I hope that the team and all involved recieve long bans. This kind of thing is the reason that people don't or won't referee. And for most people doing something they enjoy why would you subject yourself to this. I understand this is a professional match, but we all know it is much worse at the amatuer and youth level. All that aside a few things the referee and referee team could have helped themselves out tremendously.

    1. When all the nonsense started where in the hell where the AR's. If i was the ref i would have been pissed i got no backup.
    2. Once he was attacked why didn't he get his butt out of the stadium up the tunnel and into the locker room. Once this happens get yourself out of harms way and don't worry about the game finishing its the player's fault that you as a referee are leaving.
    3. Why let the play start again when you have one team celebrating. It seemed that nobody understood or heard the refs whistle so that started the confusion. That doesn't excuse the player's behavior but we don't want to cause our own problems.

    Anyway hope the referee is doing well and gets back into in spite of these idiots.
     
  4. rippingood

    rippingood Member

    Feb 13, 2004
    LosAngeles
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was the thundering cheers of the multitude of spectators that drowned out the referee's whistle. :)
     
  5. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looked to me like the initial striker was offsides. The ref should have made it clearer that the goal didn't stand, but he really has no requirement or in fact authority to delay the IDK because they began celebrating. I might have more sympathy if they hadn't sprinted all the way across the field.

    As for the ref, exactly, where were the ARs? That type of conduct is unacceptable in players, but the ARs seemed to be shrugging, as if to say "not my fault."
     
  6. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots of lessons to be learned in this clip. First, I agree, I believe the call was for offside, from the video it appears that the goal scorer was offside at the time of the kick. Now given that, the referee doesn't have a duty to make sure the opponents are ready for the free kick, however in a case like this, it's my belief that common sense has to take over. The yellow team believes they have just scored a goal and the crowd is loud in addition to their own yells. It's not at all inconceivable that they never heard or saw the signal that there was not a goal. Hell, it took the orange team coming down the field with the ball for the announcers to see realize it. I think in this case you have to make sure that your call has been communicated to at least the players on the pitch. You're just asking for trouble like we saw here if you don't.

    I agree about the AR's as well, they showed no signs of working as a team and as the CR I'd be plenty annoyed with that. I don't understand the referee's reluctance to get off the field but he did a good job of not getting sucked in or surrounded by the players.
     
  7. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the referee refused to leave the field at first because he was showing he was courageous and not afraid. It could very well be a cultural thing, but I thought he handled it very well, never turning his back on the players, and avoiding being surrounded while keeping sight of the field, and for a few moments at least a vague hope of continuing the match.
     
  8. Kebbie Gazauzkas

    FC Krasnodar
    Bulgaria
    Mar 29, 2007
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Bulgaria
    Thanks for the responses!
    I agree about the offside, I think that the ref was correct, though his (and the AR's) mechanics were probably a bit off.
    It's also interesting that 2 or 3 of the orange team players attempted to protect the referee, almost getting themselves involved in a brawl with the yellow club footballers. I guess that their actions were commendable - they were not overly aggressive and the distraction gave the referee more time to increase the distance between him and his pursuers.
     
  9. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    My review of the video is a bit different, but you really can't tell from the angle.

    I think the call might have been offside (involved in play by blocking the view of the keeper) on a yellow attacker between the shooter and the keeper. See second 14 in the video.

    In hindsight, if the red team took the indirect kick quickly (before the referee had his wits about him) while most yellow players were completely unaware, common sense should have prevailed.

    1. Prior to indirect being taken: "wait for my whistle boys, I've got to get up field into position."
    2. After indirect kick: whistle, "sorry boys, kick was taken from improper spot", then see #1.

    But it's easy to second guess now, eh?
     
  10. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can see at one point of the video that the AR on the attacking side of the yellow team is surrounded by yellow players as well. That makes me think it was likely called offside.

    I had a situation where players were about to fight each other at an adult league game. I saw one of the players running up the field looking like he was going to hit someone. I ran into help the center and to make sure no one turned on the ref and also document who threw punches. The center ref ( a 5) told me to never do that again and to stay on my touch line until things cleared. I guess some refs just do not want help from the AR's.
     
  11. refmedic

    refmedic Member

    Sep 22, 2008
    I've worked with a few "old school" 5's in some of our more difficult urban leagues. They were of the opinion of letting the players beat the hell out of each other, and stay out of the way. IT was no skin off their butt if there was a brawl. Many times we would pack up our stuff and go home, even while the fight was going on. If the players didn't want to play, then it was pointless to stay and watch them fight. The CR's didn't want the AR's to come on to the field at all, and to stay out of the way so they didn't get stuck in the middle. I've had the misfortune of being a AR of a small handfull of referee assaults. The CR made their way to me, rather than me making my way to him to help out.
     
  12. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, that is quite strange. Standard procedure is always to come to the aid of the referee, try to get between players before they get in to it, and once they do to form USSF's "triangle of patrol" (I think that's the term, I know it's a triangle something)
     
  13. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    So would you also caution the players for running of the pitch in celebration after that fiasco?


    hehe
     
  14. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    My feeling about that is, where is the stadium security? At that level I would think that the security of the referee is not the responsibility of the AR's but of security personnel. This is still a professional match, and the home team has some responsibility in that regard. I think that perhaps the instructions to the officials is get yourselves off the field as quickly as possible. Note that AR2 is completely gone and disappears after the goal, while AR1 was surronded by players. I wonder what was up with that.
     
  15. colins1993

    colins1993 Member

    Mar 1, 2001
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  16. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    According to the announcer, the referee annulled the goal and allowed the restart. He blew it, big time. The referee has no one but himself to blame for the chaos that ensued. If you pause the video, it is not clear what call he makes after the goal. It looks like he points towards the goal. It does appear that it may have been offside. But he should have not allowed the restart. So no wonder players lost their cool. The referee made a mess of this situation.
     
  17. ctreferee

    ctreferee Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    CT
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You cannot POSSIBLY be justifying the players actions here...Please tell me i read that wrong...
     
  18. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Truthfully, can't justify anyone's actions. As for the players, what exactly did they do wrong? It is Italy. So some players were yelling at him. If you can't handle yelling, then you should not be refereeing in Italy. You get yelled at by the old man down the street as a kid when you kick the ball against the wall of his house. It is just a large bark. Did anyone actually throw a punch or do anything? The referee never stood his ground. He was clueless, starting with his call to prancing around the field because he was not sure what he did. The situation got worse because the referee lost control. He was way over his head. He is as much to blame as the players, perhaps even more.
     
  19. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You cannot POSSIBLY be serious. Did you watch the clip? The referee may have erred by allowing the kick to proceed so fast, but in no way are the players innocent, or was he over his head. They clearly initiated contact with him, began pushing him, followed him and tried to engage him physically. In no way would I describe that as simply yelling. I find it shameful that you would accept conduct like that from a player. For the ref to have stood his ground would have made a bad situation worse; for him to ignore the threats and contact would have been foolish. Please, please rethink your sentiment.
     
  20. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Who defended the players? But who can defend the referee?

    All we have is a clip. We know nothing about the rest of the match, the history between these teams, standings, etc. But from looking at the clip, what resulted was from the actions of the referee. So what do we have?

    A once in a lifetime volley is put away. As expected, a great celebration ensues. The player who hit that volley may very well have been offside. And that might have been the call. Apparently, the other side seem to think so and put the ball back into play very quickly, resulting in a goal on the other end. That is when the chaos begins. Throughout this 40-some seconds, the referee has no control whatsover. And it is because of that, we see this mess on the video.

    I have been in this game for nearly 40 years, as a player, coach, administrator and referee. Still active in all of those phases. How do you expect players to react in this situation? Do you take into account emotions, adrenaline, competitiveness and normal human reaction? Here we have a great goal that is scored and not only is it called off but the other side is allowed to take advantage of the situation and score an easy one on you. And players are not expected to get upset?

    If the goal was called off, fine. Blow that whistle. Let the situation calm down. Then allow the restart. But the referee did not do that. And I am not sure what he was doing near the middle of the pitch afterwards. Was he going to allow the subsequent goal to stand? When some of the players got in his face, he kept moving around. No anwsers. Obviously, he got scared. And he started to run. He even walked towards the policeman on the sidelines. Did he stop and let them assist him. No. Just kept running. Granted that Serie D is basically D5 and more of semipro than anything else but you would think that this guy would have had enough experience to handle the situation. He looked like he just stepped out of a Grade 8 course. He was over his head.

    In all of my years, more often than not, when things go bad on the pitch, often it has to do with the control, or more appropriately, the lack of control by the referee. That does not make players innocent but the referee is not an innocent bystander either in many of these situations. In this case, the referee made several errors that led to the situation. We as referees can learn from it. We should learn from it.
     
  21. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know Falc, I can agree with some of what you're saying but other parts are outright ridiculous. I agree that the referee could have avoided the whole mess by simply managing the situation appropriately. When he called the offside, there is no way that the restart should have been allowed until it was communicated properly to those on the pitch that the goal was being disallowed. There we agree.

    I don't agree that the referee did anything wrong once players started to confront him following the subsequent goal. The referee gets physically assaulted almost immediately by the first players in. Right there, any explanation is over, you're now in a referee assault situation and your first priority is your own safety. His movements were appropriate to ensure he did not get surrounded by the players. That's what you need to do in a situation like this, ensure you have a way out. Once they got physical with the referee all bets are off.

    As to the fear factor, of course he was scared and you would be to (if you say you wouldn't be your liar). I don't care who you are, when its you versus 5 guys that outsize you as they did in the clip, anyone would be scared. Doesn't mean anyone would be smart enough to not engage in a fight, but is that what you're suggesting the referee should have done. He sought every means possible to diffuse the situation yet the players persisted. The referee got no support from stadium security, even after he sought them out for assistance (interesting that it was the home team that was chasing him and one must wonder how that connects with the officers doing little to help the referee).

    So I'll agree with you that the referees actions and mechanics up to the point of confrontation were not good. However, once he's pushed the first time, I think he handled it pretty well (except that I'd have not waited that long to decide to just get off the pitch).
     
  22. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    First, the referee was not assaulted. He was yelled at. That is not an assault. He needed to take control. Period. He did not. He totally lost it. Even when he went over the sidelines toward the police/security, did he stop and let them assist him? No.

    I have seen referees in worse situations. They took control. I refereed a match between a team comprised of players from Sierra Leone on one side and Nigerians on the other side. No love between these two teams. Did the game by myself with no AR's. Play was rough at times and I had to make the calls, which included a PK. The side that got called against accused me of favoring the other side. A bunch of them came towards me to protest the call. They were loud, they were infuriated but no one touched me. And the game went on. If I did like this guy, it would have turned bad.

    There are no good actors in this scenario, starting with the referee. This is no scandal, as the title of this thread suggests. There are a lot of lessons to be learned here. And if people want to be good at refereeing, better start understanding players and why they may react at times. This could have gotten very ugly. Fights might have started. It did not. If anything, it seems both teams were just shocked at the whole thing. No one tried to beat him nor was there any action to suggest such. It was a bizarre situation that the referee allowed to happen.
     
  23. boylanj64

    boylanj64 Member

    Nov 7, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is not what happened here. Several players made contact with the referee, and at no point did security step up to help him. It was a bizarre situation, but the players are certainly to blame for how they reacted. It is one thing for them to protest the decision, another thing to get in his face menacingly, and quite another to physically make contact with an official. I don't know how you can blame him here. He did nothing wrong past the initial mistake of letting play restart too early.
     
  24. intechpc

    intechpc Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    West Bend, WI
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, I've come to the conclusion that one of three things is happening here. Either: A. you're not watching the same video we are, B. you need to get your eyes behind a pair of glasses, C. you're in denial. The referee is assaulted. Once the players make contact with him (happens in the video at 43 seconds, again at 51 seconds and I believe a couple more times after that yet), that's assault, period. You make yourself out to be comically oblivious if you're going to say that there's nothing there.
     
  25. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    A. No
    B. No

    and

    C. No
     

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