Serie A Guerin Sportivo 1980-1991 every game with player ratings

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Vegan10, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011

    Yes, to come back to this, his list needs to be updated for the top rated players of Gazzetta. For example, Krol and Platini share the highest grades of 6,94 of all time and Krol gets in again with a 6,91 in another season. Maradona gets in with 6,64 for 1987-88 as well. Those are missing from his list and there probably are others.

    His list:
    https://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2014/02/serie-highest-averages-ratings-in-one.html?m=1
     
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  2. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I will check that out, mate. Will get back to you.
     
  3. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Yes, let’s do this piece by piece.

    Those selections chosen of Nils Liedholm in 1987 were his ideal teams as player active and once he was manager. There’s no clarification if those were the best players he witnessed but rather what was the ideal fit to construct the right team.

    Will get to the 1988 article soon.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You said above Maradona was 4th, with Mancini, Baresi and Gullit rated ahead.

    The other article (from 1989) excludes Baresi but the grades for the other two players are the same as in Krokko his link.
     
  5. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    13B22836-88C1-4A54-BAD6-25E049721BEE.jpeg

    Yes, so this is the situation with Liedholm: he was asked to pick the ideal all-time Italian squad vs an all-time foreigner squad.

    Second, in his views Conti was the best he coached, gave him an enormous satisfaction. Conti didn’t produce useless dribbling like others, made the perfect pass/cross when needed and was a top professional. He was grateful to have acquired Falcao. But the best foreigner was Zico, a player he regrets not coaching, was stronger than Maradona, Platini or Falcao. Zico was unpredictable in the free kick, excellent with both feet, and excellent in prowess as scorer. Schiaffino was the best player he played with and only Di Stefano was a better footballer in his views. That tells us that in his opinion Di Stefano was the greatest followed closely by Schiaffino.
     
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  6. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    That’s correct, mate. In Krokko’s list he’s rated the top all-time Gazzetta rated players that produced average grades of 6,63 and above. Evidently some are missing.
     
  7. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #2083 PDG1978, Oct 17, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    Interesting, thanks very much!

    We shouldn't focus too much on changes/contradictions I guess or take every statement too literally, but the Schiaffino one would seem to be one (unless accidentally omitted from the 'best players from his playing days' team albeit as you say it was picked as the best team rather than collection of best individuals in his view, but maybe it was the same with the 1988 teams), since not only did Didi get in that selection in preference to him, but in the top 10 foreign players of Serie A list he made he placed Nordahl and Gren ahead (as shown via the link Puck posted earlier). He could possibly be feeling Schiaffino was better or had a more impressive/regular career before joining AC Milan though I suppose, so still rate him number 2 behind Di Stefano indeed.

    The Zico one would seem to be another, since he had picked Platini as #10 in his 'team from his days as manager' in 1987, with Rivera as #8 (switching Rivera to #10 for his all-time Italian team isn't a contradiction though I'd say). Could be he'd see Rivera/Platini as a midfield partnership and Zico really as a trequartista (and in Italy he pretty much did play as an outright forward a lot of the time I think didn't he). Zico was named in the top 10 foreigners of Serie A from 1984 (when as this thread proves Platini had begun to receive great ratings consistently in Serie A during 1983, but obviously he was adding to his resume after and during 1984 too) without having played there very long at all.

    Interesting that he'd pick Conti over Falcao then - that gives some indication of how he compares the Italians to the non-Italians, but it also seems it's about who he found a 'joy' to coach in the sense of attitude etc. He did coach Baresi of course too.

    EDIT - He did put Falcao (8th) above Zico (10th) in the list of foreigners in 1984 too so as I'm saying maybe things can't always be taken definitively with these things (since one comment/list might go against another). It's possible in 1988 he'd still have placed Wilkes in 7th and the 6 others above him higher than Platini and Maradona I suppose, but I don't think it's exactly clear he still would do that either.
     
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  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Pele's 1987 views on Schiaffino, Conti etc (as well as all-time XI and list of Italian players of all-time, or that he knew) are maybe good to revisit for comparison purposes too:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/attachments/0189417e-8eca-4643-a6f7-140fb4ae58e7-jpeg.138673/

    Maybe his response about Schiaffino loses something in translation, but probably he seems to rate him lower than 2nd of all-time himself and/or didn't see a great deal of him playing overall:
    "yes, even Schiaffino in his times was good; and then let's go back we can't help mentioning Gunnar Gren too"
     
  10. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
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  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    When will you start with 1991-92?
     
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    As soon as I get the final rounds of Corriere dello Sport over with and find that 91-92 package that I know was stashed away in my storage. I also had forgotten I had the 1978 and 1979 seasons, which I found recently.

    Let me know, mate, if you are curious of any other match that may have been missed or not mentioned here. I was initially focusing on Serie A only but it’s ok to include other events considering it still pertains to Italian clubs.
     
  13. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    @PDG1978 there’s your 7 grade for Diego vs Liedholm’s Roma... jijiii
     
  14. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    The drastic difference of salary of these two sides:

    652F43A2-9F0A-4F76-AAEE-1FAD94CFD84B.jpeg
     
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  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, that's the highest out of the 4 publications for that game by him I think? I had been a bit surprised the others were as low as they were (although not much lower than that to be fair - it does seem like when a performance gets a 7 it is definitely in the realms of being a clearly positive verdict though and of course averaging 7 over a season is in exceptional range and by 87/88 it didn't really happen so it's above average clearly that way).

    That was after his comments about all-time XIs etc that we have been discussing I guess was it?

    Although Liedholm (with by all assessments an excellent Giannini performance) did get the win I suppose, to help his old pals at AC Milan ultimately that season!
     
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  17. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #2092 Vegan10, Oct 17, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    That’s correct, mate. It came afterward.

    I don’t know what Tuttosport graded but we know for the other 3 sources. According to Corriere dello Sport, Maradona was recovering from flu-type symptoms before that match and is regarded as their top performer.

    A 7 is definitely top quality stuff for their standards.
     
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  18. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    The African jewel around 1988 was at the apex of his fame.

    EED5F39D-9E44-497E-841A-5994EC824A82.jpeg DAE56378-5006-4661-9DC6-F933FC45E522.jpeg
     
  19. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Corriere dello Sport (March 1988)

    All rave reviews on how Napoli was coasting to another consecutive Scudetto triumph.

    Below Maradona stating how Gullit didn’t deserve to get red carded and he wouldn’t have sent him off had he been the official.

    DBD28F94-3BD2-43D3-928B-54DA79E06D49.jpeg 8A1838B9-C3BE-4F3A-8250-35685E1DF6B4.jpeg EEE22767-C3AF-45B9-9591-8F723F96813E.jpeg
     
  20. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
  21. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    The double South American tándem of Maradona-Careca has sparked debate on how they compare with other legendary tandems from previous eras.

    7C73FAB3-AEE0-434F-BE23-92F11EEFA1C0.jpeg F3DD92D0-AABB-432C-8598-9472B71AA279.jpeg
     
  22. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    And that concludes the Corriere dello Sport papers in my possession. If something else surfaces over time I will add it to the missing rounds of the season.

    One last observation: 1987-88 was the last season of 30 rounds and the last season with only 2 foreigners per club. The following season 3 foreigners per club was allowed and many more foreigners started to arrive in Italy. In addition the expansion of a few more teams to Serie A.

    I will now continue with where I had left off with the conclusion of season 1990-91.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Noticing again the headline for the Italy selection he made I think it is Sandro Mazzola he picks (according to the diagram deeper than Rivera, though it'd seem it was more often vice versa in the games they did play together at International level).

    This is the translation apparently: "Mazzola and Rivera together in Italy always".
     
  25. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    So going back to the conclusion of the 1990-91 season with some final reflexiones.

    GS conducted a poll about Juventus and their disappointing campaign. They had a new head-coach, a new signing of a franchise star (Baggio), various new acquisitions that consisted of a WC winner (Haessler) and were considered amongst the promising candidates to compete for silverware. But the exact opposite occurred, no titles won and eliminated from qualifying to European competition for the first time in over 20 years. Although management took severe blame for the debacle, its new major signing of Roberto Baggio was targeted as the biggest disappointment.

    E41BCF95-4263-45C2-B782-89F216FEABA9.jpeg
     

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