Serie A Guerin Sportivo 1980-1991 every game with player ratings

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Vegan10, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Inter Milan virtually has the scudetto in their pockets after a strong campaign, Napoli who are in second place have dropped points lately with Maradona out through injury and are more focused on their European UEFA campaign than the league that seems already out of reach.
     
  2. Krokko

    Krokko Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Club:
    AIK Solna
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Yeah, Diego actually threatened an Il Mattino reporter to having him eating his pagella, quite literally...
     
  3. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #1528 Vegan10, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    I wouldn’t doubt that at all, being that was a local Napoli paper, but what influence or intimidating factors did he have in swaying reviews with outside local newspapers, like Gazzetta or GS ? I think none.

    Edit: I think if there was some situations like that it was an isolated local case but outside that didn’t exist. The grades from outside sources back that up considering Careca has taken a dip in his ratings as of late.
     
  4. Krokko

    Krokko Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Club:
    AIK Solna
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    This happened in January 1990, after the game in Udine (2-2), where reporter Giuseppe Pacileo gave Maradona a 3.5 mark.
     
    MJWizards repped this.
  5. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    Is Maradona skipping games in
    I just watched the video of the game here and the 1st thing said by the journalist is "Napoli saved by Maradona magical left foot" . Of course im sure his overall performance was not that good, but he generated the penalty with A great pass to Zola, then he scored the penalty, and with another pass he generated also the 2nd goal for Corradini, who made a tip in after Zola shot on a Maradona assist. He Also almost scored again on a good free Kick. Will be interesting to see his ratings in this game from guerin or gazzetta
     
  6. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    He’s missed 3 straight league matches due to fitness issues and the UEFA Cup has been given priority in this phase of the season.
     
    MJWizards repped this.
  7. Krokko

    Krokko Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Club:
    AIK Solna
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    La Stampa from Turin rated him 5, which translates "feeble" on the Italian rating scale (6="satisfactory").
    upload_2019-9-23_13-0-34.png
     
    Vegan10 and MJWizards repped this.
  8. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    Thanks for the info. Yeah looks like It was a bad performance and he is struggling with injuries
     
  9. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    In the UEFA cup semifinal and final Vs Bayern and Stuttgart Diego was very good. He made 4 assist Vs Bayern and 3 assist and 1 penalty Vs Stuttgart
     
  10. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Those two final phases is where he’s rated in general higher than previous rounds in that competition. With the league disregarded as unreachable due to Inter Milan’s excellent campaign; the UEFA Cup and Coppa Italia were given priority.

    The same occurred with AC Milan, the European Cup was given priority since the league was out of reach. Gullit virtually missing the second half of the domestic season and Van Basten demonstrating his best mostly in Europe over the league.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The Italians have a word for this: psychological slavery. The social pressure.


    I can't check La Stampa right now but I remember seeing Careca had better ratings as him (and thinking this was not completely accurate per se).

    First game vs Bayern (heavily deflected assist + set piece assist)

    Second game vs Bayern (assist after big defensive blunder at 8:20, second assist after 'easy' counter 11:30)

    First game vs Stuttgart (wins penalty at 1:00 after himself making a handball, second assist at 3:00 after a free kick)

    Second game vs Stuttgart (Careca makes the assist at 1:20 that virtually wins the title; set piece assist at 3:00, another easy counter at 4:10).


    Thus while he was (very) good it isn't like how it is sometimes thought or memorized (another thing is the idea of him as the ultimate 'underdog player').

    The idea he dribbled his way through the opposition and had piercing passes on his way to the UEFA Cup title. He had in 12 games three goals (all penalties) and 9 assists (6 from/after a set piece situation) that 1988-89 UEFA Cup campaign as a sort of free role player. He had one or two pre-assists. Careca had 6 goals (no penalties) and a couple assists as well.

    Personally I liked him (Maradona) a lot in his Werder Bremen game at home from a season later, even if he ended up at the losing side. I can recommend this match. Seriously.


    Ratings below (@Krokko @schwuppe )
    Show Spoiler
    This are the average ratings of Napoli during their 1988/1989 UEFA Cup campaign, based on La Stampa reports (I'd like to see them for Gazzetta or Guerin Sportivo).

    Careca 6,77 (11)
    Maradona 6,71 (12)
    Francini 6,50 (11)
    Ferrara 6,46 (12)
    Carnevale 6,44 (8)
    Renica 6,33 (12)
    De Napoli 6,28 (9)
    Fusi 6,27 (11)
    Giuliani 6,25 (12)
    Crippa 6,25 (10)
    Alemao 6,19 (8)
    Romano 6,17 (3)
    Corradini 5,96 (12)
    Carannante 5,80 (4)

    Minimum: 2 rated matches

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/is...est-player-ever.1784415/page-21#post-27315327


    Just found that the Napoli fansite preferred the L'Unita ratings above the La Stampa ones. L'Unita had this as average ratings for 1988-89 UEFA Cup season:

    Ferrara 6,75 (12 UEFA Cup matches rated)
    Fusi 6,59 (11)
    Carnevale 6,44 (8)
    Renica 6,41 (12)
    Carannante 6,33 (6)
    Maradona 6,33 (12)
    Alemao 6,33 (9)
    Careca 6,32 (11)
    Giuliani 6,32 (11)
    Francini 6,27 (11)
    De Napoli 6,12 (8)
    Corradini 6,04 (12)
    Crippa 5,90 (10)

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/is...est-player-ever.1784415/page-21#post-27316472
     
    Vegan10 repped this.
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I haven’t seen those games in a long time. I do now see that most of Gazzetta and GS grades are available of that competition. I have been asked to provide the information at hand. What does stand out at the moment is how during critical phases of that season he’s playing at 60 percent (GS words) of his physical capabilities due to injuries to the trot. Based on what I’ve seen of the match grades Careca was superb but in the latter rounds Maradona really picked it up. Overall he alternated between 6 and 7,5 throughout the campaign from the top reputable sources.
     
  13. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Here’s the Gazzetta dello Sport Napoli 1988-89 Uefa ratings of every match:

    C6501CEA-87C1-4EAF-BDB9-64A5EFF7C3F8.jpeg

    I’ll see to that of GS.
     
    MJWizards and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You also confirmed in later years (the 1990s) Moggi started to interfere in the ratings, right? I've a book citing telephone transcripts mentioning this too. Something to keep in mind/reconsider when seeing e.g. Zidane his poor ratings.

    This is what you said for example:

    "From a certain point they realized that the guy who wrote the match report could not give the marks as well, it simply was too much for one person. That's when the category pagellista was invented! A pagellista is a journalist whose "only" task is to rate all players, coaches and officials. They have very high consideration in Italy, even though some of them seem to have been caught in Moggi's spider web... giving higher marks than deserved to justify victories of Moggi's teams... "
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That looks very harsh (as in: 10th best rated of his team in the 1989 UEFA Cup - I don't agree), but like I said, the memory of a player who played piercing passes (which he didn't do regularly in 1986WC either, as a footnote) and dribbled again and again past three players (that competition) is also incorrect imho.

    In two of the three penalties he scored he was involved. The pass to Careca against Paok (Careca fouled), the handball against Stuttgart. The third penalty against Juventus was a Renica pass to Careca (fouled).
     
  16. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    It’s not in particular order but according to the notes, he’s the highest rated in the Bordeaux clash and joint-highest in the return leg vs Bayern.
    Will see about the GS ratings...
     
    MJWizards repped this.
  17. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    It's not ordered by grade. Maradona is tied for 4th.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  18. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    For better reading, those are the ratings from Gazzetta for the UEFA Cup 1988-1989 campaign. Again, thanks to Vegan for this amazing stuff! Hope to see the Guerin ratings as well!

    6,72 - Careca
    6,68 - Francini
    6,64 - Giuliani
    6,50 - Maradona
    6,50 - Renica
    6,45 - Ferrara
    6,36 - Fusi
    6,31 - Carnevale
    6,30 - Crippa
    6,27 - De Napoli
    6,25 - Alemao
    6,08 - Carannante
    6,00 - Romano
    5,95 - Corradini

    minimum 2 games
     
    Vegan10 repped this.
  19. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Krokko and MJWizards repped this.
  20. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    This is a translation of Gazzetta article about Maradona in the UEFA 88-89 campaign:

    "Almost never at his best, almost always decisive. Maradona is a walking and universal contradiction. But a winning one. His genious allow him to mask his disorderly life. See the 6 Careca goals: all sons of Diego, just like Dalma and Giannina...just like Ferrara goal on wednesday. Or like Carnevale goal against Bayern Munich. Diego is this: dont ask him what he do in the garage, just be happy of what he do on the field. "
     
  21. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    The rest but unfortunately missing the last match vs Stuttgart:

    35B195D4-D6E0-4D65-8D8A-A2C252EA28BE.jpeg BDA1B4BD-85CB-42C3-98E8-4B5FCA22E4D5.jpeg
     
  22. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    GS Uefa Cup Napoli-Bayern away clash :

    34C3DF4D-70ED-40E5-9A53-6C76CFA5DAC6.jpeg

    That match was generally regarded as his best of that campaign.
     
  24. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Unfortunately GS didn’t provide a final breakdown of every match so you’d have to calculate on your own based on the information at hand.
     
    MJWizards repped this.
  25. MJWizards

    MJWizards Member

    Aug 17, 2019
    Overall, for Maradona we have a 6,54 average by Guerin, but we miss the 2nd game vs Stuttgart.
    For reference, he has been rated 6,5 by Gazzetta and 7 by La Stampa in Stuttgart 2nd leg.

    So the overall picture is the following:

    MARADONA - Uefa Cup 1988-1989
    Stats:
    12 games - 3 goals (3 pk) - 9 assist
    Ratings:
    Gazzetta dello Sport: 6,50 (12 games)
    La Stampa: 6,71 (12 games)
    Guerin Sportivo: 6,54 (11 games, missing Stuttgart 2nd match)
     
    Vegan10 repped this.

Share This Page