Serie A and MLS.....

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Soccerdude redded, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    TerpSoccerFan : You live in the US and it's natural that you hear more about the EPL. There are parts of the world like Latin America where people are oblivious to English football. They watch La Liga and Serie A because that's where all the latin players play. La Liga and Serie A are the dominant leagues throughout the Mediterranean, North Africa, the Balkans, the Middle East... The Bundesliga is huge in central and eastern Europe.

    I'm from Romania and my country is the same. Most Romanians watch La Liga and Serie A because that's where all the big Romanian stars have played over the years. In Hungary where I've spent time everyone watches Bundesliga because that's where Hungarians play. Each of the big 5 Euro leagues has its own particular spheres of influence, and North America is predominantly EPL.

    The reason that EPL seems to be growing faster than the others is because they've successfully extended their brand to places like Asia, Australia and Africa. The other 4 leagues have fallen behind in these "new" soccer markets, but there's signs that they are moving to catch up.
     
  2. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I completely agree on every account, Boloni. I can't make any argument about what people in other countries are watching, but on this board and with the MLS view, I can comment on what I watch and what I see others watching/following.

    I have admitted the common language value of the EPL, etc. My argument, however, is that LaLiga is vastly more exposed here than Serie A. Obviously America's large hispanic population is a good reason, common language, yet I don't exactly know a ton of hispanics, most of the soccer fans I know are white folks who speak no spanish or italian, yet they are at least 10 times more exposed/aware of LaLiga than Serie A. Maybe it's residual from living in a country with a large spanish-speaking population, yet more of them seem to follow South/Central American soccer than LaLiga.

    America is a growing market for soccer, the big leagues need to increase their exposure here. I know tons of fans of soccer who spend money on it here that pretty much exclusively know Manchester and Arsenal and sadly, growing... Chelsea. They like it, they open their wallets, but they aren't going to go through translating a foreign language, trying to find the "ENGLISH" link on a club site full of gambling ads in other languages, or pirating chinese TV feeds with audio not synced with the video... If these leagues want the money in this growing market, they have to do something to come over here and get it. I believe AC Milan was here in Washington two years ago... they need to do that more, more links, get on TV more here, etc.
     
  3. mookhead

    mookhead New Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Metro Chicago
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    ------Well that post was not my first post on this thread, but that's not the point. I'm sure most people's exposure to Serie A soccer is by watching FSC which has been said before here. If people are getting their Serie A fix from that, it would be like somebody overseas watching the Kansas City Royals and Washington Nationals play for baseball. It's MLB baseball but the teams are that great and they don't represent what’s best about the league. I think that that is a major issue.
    -------By hanging around Big Soccer and reading publications by the English (4-4-2/world soccer etc..) people are going to get a negative view on the Italian league. When it comes to Euro competitions there are ups and downs for all the European leagues. Most of the time the top 3 leagues are going to be the EPL,La Liga and Serie A. In the late 80's to mid 90's it was Serie A. In the early part of this decade it was La Liga. Now it's the EPL that seems to be doing well in Europe so this also translates to more people in the States liking the EPL over anything since ESPN covers the Champions league. When was an non EPL team not shown in the early rounds?
    ------Getting back to the original reason for this thread, I think that MLS while being geared towards the fan is a long way from the quality of Serie A. This is my opinion it probably wont change for some time. Everybody else has their opinion on Serie A(negative or positive) which probably wont change much either.
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  5. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry for mistaking your post history, Mookhead.

    I have watched a bit of Serie A on FSC, which does almost always feature Inter, Milan, or AC... Against poor competition.

    I do watch non FSC Serie A games from time to time, haven't noticed a grand difference other than the serious quality improvement in announcing, etc. Which honestly, does help... Maybe if every Serie A match was announced by Martin Tyler I could watch them.
     
  6. krayzie

    krayzie BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 13, 2003
    Paris, France
    This is a little bit stereotyped to say that. In EPL, they culturally play to score but Italy's defenses are at their all time low. The past few years Serie A has never been so offensive. Also, the EPL with the import of MANY foreign has dramatically improved the level of this league.

    Defenses in Italy aren't what they used to.

    Again, I disagree, I've watched la Serie A since the late 80's, and I've noticed the slow decline of la Serie A since the early 2000's. Violence and decayed stadiums have led the crowds to stop coming. La Serie A has lost many fans every year. Soccer is still popular, but many prefer to watch it on TV. Since the 1990 WC nothing has been done to renovate the stadiums. Nothing has been done to solve violence problems.
     
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    you have a point.....especially after yesterday...hopefully, AC will get some redemption today.......

    After yesterday's game I think we should revert back to the basics and do what Sandro Pertini always said......"The best defense is offense"!
     
  8. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As much as I would love to use yesterday as a proof of quality, I don't think you can. No one is going to make the argument now that Roma is better than England's (arguably) best team. But it isn't a 7-1 difference. Yesterday was just one of those days, everything went right, everything went wrong. Roma got smacked in the mouth and didn't know how to respond, I think it was more showing of mentality and character as opposed to sporting quality.

    I'm also not sure how indicative Roma is of Serie A overall... I mean, does anyone understand exactly what they're doing out there? They seemed to lack any kind of tactical concept or organization. Even the game they won last week, I had no clue what they were doing. My time watching Serie A games has made me at least feel that such is not indicative of Serie A overall. If I were Roma, I'd invest in getting a coach that can give the team an identity, give their players a position, and give the team a strategy that doesn't change every 5 minutes.


    EDIT: I'd also add that, in fairness, attendance is relatively low in many EPL stadiums as well. Coming from an American soccer fan who is only recently into soccer, it seems that many longtime soccer fans don't necessarily notice the vast explosion in the sport economically and the many negative impacts it has had. All too often these people (in many threads I have read) reference events and things that happened in the 60s,70s,and 80s when these things have almost no bearing on today's soccer world at all. I think that in general the economics have warped the game dramatically from this long-past world that traditional soccer fans talk about. England has new, quality stadiums, etc. and still no one comes. The prices of tickets, lack of competition, etc. have all added to this. Serie A just has the extra problems of bad stadia and more scandal.
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Totti is a great offensive player and when he is on his game is one of the best in football. However, as said in other threads, he plays no defense. Panucci is 33/34 and is a so so defender although who is hot and cold and not very bad. Roma has missed a strong central defender since Aldair left. Sad that they really couldn't win much with him as he was a great defender. Daniele DeRossi is still only 23 and has a ways to go ansd Amantino Mancini has played and displayed signs of brilliance but has also shown not only in the CL but in the Serie A to be non existent at times and is the only Roma player to be the most subbed out. He is one of the few Brazilian starters to have played in Italy that have really never played for Brazil. I think his only cap was a half of a Copa America match. WC starter/winner Simone Perrotta could have lent a hand on defense yesterday but was suspended.

    These are no excuses however, they are facts. Luciano Spalletti said it best when he said, "Roma lacks experience". I think Roma would welcome a player like Gattuso as well as some more creative defensive & offensive mids not to mention a top goal scorer.
     
  10. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Experience is certainly part of the mental and character issues that I mentioned, but it can't be ignored that they seemed to not have a clue what to do and lack any kind of team identity. Didn't Mancini start out as a wingback? Now he's almost exclusively offensive... Their defense seems to lack any bite whatsoever. DeRossi is probably overhyped. You can use the "He's still only 23" argument, yet in a soccer world where Arsenal trots out 18-20 year olds for champions league, where almost every big team has at least one major prospect under 23 that has a major impact... Being still just 23 doesn't have the same weight. At 23, it's time to start playing and making an impact at every level.
     
  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I taped the match but didn't see it. I just saw the highlights on the RAI and read and herd about it on the Italian news. Its obvious that yesterday was not their day. I'm sure however, Roma can't be as bad as they played otherwise they wouldn't have beaten Man United in Rome. I personally never felt they were the better team even though I'm a Roma fan. After Manchester scored an important away goal in Rome and seeing how Roma missed all their chances last week, I kind of knew all along they couldn't do it. As much as I love Roma, this is the first year in maybe 20+ years they have gotten this far in the CL when they lost to Liverpool in Rome. This is still no excuse however, they basically were in over their heads.

    We'll see what Ac Milan does.
     
  12. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2-nil for Milan on Seedorf and Inzaghi.
     
  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    cool!
     
  14. krayzie

    krayzie BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 13, 2003
    Paris, France

    Excuse me but Roma play a very well organized game. Roma was the best defense in Champions league before playing Manchester. Mexes/Chivu are two of the finest defenders in Europe.
     
  15. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Mexes and Chivu are overrated.

    I know they had a good defensive record in this champions league run, giving up only 5 goals before last night I believe... Yet Arsenal had an even better defensive run last year but they are by no means a solid defensive team comparable to other big clubs.

    I haven't seen every game Roma has played this year, but their whole team looked schiyzophrenic both of the last two weeks.

    If there's an overarching strategy to Roma, would someone please explain it to me?
     
  16. masterklh

    masterklh New Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    Massachusetts
    I think after ManU vs Roma Game that we can clearly sum up both respective leagues from one game.
     
  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Did you say that however after last weeks match when Man United lost in Rome?

    No.....We can not compare two entirely different leagues from 2 different teams or even 1 game. The game is played differently all over the world. I'm sure you don't have long ball passes in Brazil, Argentina or Mexico just like there is no catenaccio played in those countries.

    I haven't watched the Milan match yet however, had Milan lost to Bayern, I'm sure everyone would be singing a tune that Italian football is dead. Remember Italy, are the world champs. None of their players played abroad. Two teams the quarterfinal of the CL and 1 made the semifinal. Roma was not even supposed to have played in the tournament however, they took it to the final 8.

    Therefore, no matter how much anyone hates Italian soccer, the FIGC/Serie A must be doing something right somewhere.
     
  18. RedBulls

    RedBulls New Member

    Feb 19, 2007

    What do you base this on? All top Prem club sell out, and Prem newcomers like reading do as well.

    And further points re: EPL

    Also, the financial world has chosen the EPL as THE #1 LEAGUE by all of the recent investment in EPL clubs over the recent years by international investors...nobody is lining up to buy top Serie A clubs or top La Liga clubs.

    In conjunction with the financial worlds vote, the EPL has proven this year that they are tops with 3/4 in champions league semis.

    lastly, the EPL had more world cup players than any other league this past summer.
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    How can top investors invest in Italian clubs if there are no big clubs in Italy ever for sale? There are only 3 clubs in Italy that have always been big: Inter, Milan & Juventus. Juventus are owned by the Agnelli (FIAT) family and they have never had any intention of selling. The same goes for Milan who are owned by Silvio Berlusconi and oil tycoon Massimo Moratti owns Inter (which they also owned in 2 era's the 60's & again from 95-present day). These clubs are never really for sale. There are no other big clubs in Italy. South of Rome is a nightmare for any type of investors much less a soccer team. Zamparini bought Palermo and brought them up to the Serie A 2 years ago but he is from the north and his only intention was to get his grocery chain into Sicily. He has already stated his intention to sell. I doubt many other investors want to invest in mafia driven and/or controlled towns. I see no other big clubs on the horizon in Italy.
     
  20. TerpSoccerFan

    TerpSoccerFan New Member

    Jan 14, 2007
    Rome
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Red Bulls, while I agreed with your other points, you challenged my assertion about attendance, so here's what I found:

    Sure the big teams sell out, but here's some numbers...

    About half the league average having 1,000 empty seats per game... Blackburn has about 10,000 empty seats per game. Wigan about 8,000. Bolton has about 5,000 empty seats per game. Hell, even Liverpool finds a way to have 1500 empty seats per game. You have to figure that matches against the big four and rivals are 100% sell-outs... So a midtable vs. midtable non-derby match could have another 1000-5000 empty seats in some stadiums.



    Yes, ManU and Arsenal can fill virtually every seat in a 60,000 or 70,000 seat stadium, but more than a quarter of the league has attendance that is subpar. While most of the league has good attendnace,and yes my "no one comes" is hyperbole, but having 10,000 empty seats is astounding to me given England's reputation.

    It's not a crisis, I was just pointing out that even in England some teams are having attendance issues.

    There's little means for comparing Serie A this year due to their attendance numbers being completely warped with the crowd bannings, etc.

    In general, though, I agreed with everything else you said about the EPL.


    EDIT: Slight side-argument about the World Cup Comment... I think EPL is helped by this due to its diversity. Lots of African players, etc. Serie A is diverse, but I don't think they have quite as many prominent foreigners outside of South Americans. EPL seems to feature a ton of talent from a ton of different countries. Just looking at the top two teams in the whole world in terms of number of world cup players... Arsenal and Chelsea... They are very diverse teams, majority non-English. Inter fits that description, though primarily two countries (argentina and brazil, whereas Arsenal and Chelsea have 1-3 guys from a handful of countries). Point just being here... the WC number is somewhat indicative, but it can lie... For example, is the 8th best Italian striker better than Adebayor, a top Togo striker? That 8th best Italian striker isnt going to be on the WC team, but Ade will be.
     
  21. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    After what happened last week in Rome, Italian soccer needs to be treated like England's back in the 80s:

    Kick them out of European soccer until they clean themselves up.

    Last year it was bribery, this year it was violence. How AC Milan was permitted to still compete in the CL, then get an easy group, after being deducted points for fixing games is beyond me.
     
  22. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The violence in Rome was instigated by the English and not the Italian fans.
     
  23. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    My friend, I don't think you realize how unpopular these recent investments in EPL really are in England. I think most English football analyzers wish they would of had a similar system as they have in Spain. Spanish clubs are owned by club members which makes those clubs sort of like social institution.

    I don't think there's any realistic way that any random millionaire would buy a La Liga club anytime soon. And that's a great thing for football, and the fans.
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Wasn't Rupert Murdoch's aqcuisition/purchase of Man United shot down by the English parlament?

    I wish all those American investors investing in the EPL would invest in the MLS. I believe it would be better for the league in the long run. I guess they all figure they would get more back on their return sooner than later in the EPL rather than the MLS where you have to buil an SSS to be part of the league or at least be an owner.
     
  25. krayzie

    krayzie BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 13, 2003
    Paris, France
    Mexes and Chivu are two of the finest defenders in Europe. I don't know what tells you they are overrated. And I don't know how you can judge those players if you haven't seen every game Roma has played this year (and maybe the past years).

    I've known Mexes since he first started with Auxerre back in the early 2000s, and everybody knew that he was one of the most talented defender of his generation. He's now close to play for the national team.
     

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