Good response to the original post. Much more helpful than the "Jerk/Know-it-all" response. I for one don't know everything about all soccer leagues in the world, so your real life experience is appreciated.
I saw the Quakes play some pretty attractive soccer in 2005 and they were tough at Spartan , I thought they played like a good Serie B side maybe even the lower half of the Serie A. Fiorentina(called Florentia Viola) relegated from the Serie A to the Serie C2(4th) in 2002/2003 and I even saw some games at the Artemio Franchi Stadium in Florence. I must say that I saw a lot of hack players however, there were some up and coming players and some older players who were on the way out who wanted to help Fiorentina get promoted again. WC midfielder Angelo DiLivio actually dropped down 3 divisions to "help out" his team and found a tough go at it. He ended up braking his leg and only played in maybe 15-20 matches. Current Messina Serie A striker Crisitian Rigano was their leading scorer. I must say seeing 33,000 screaming fans in the stadium, makes and raises the level of any game or league. I've never seen this atmosphere at any MLS match. The level does translate onto the pitch and into the players. This raises the level also. I remember in the NASL seeing Steve Hunt of the NY Cosmos who was a typical 3rd or even 4th division player in England. Playing in the NASL he raised his level enough to sign with Coventry City and became a terror up the wings. Actually, a lot of lower division players playing in the NASL raised their level of play by playing in the league. I also think the level or quality has a lot to do with the players you play with. When you play with the stars, you can't help but raise your game. For this very reason the MLS is going after Becks, Zidane etc etc.
This is true however, the problem with Andriy Shevchenko is he needs time to get assimilated. He always had a problem with inconsistency as Carlo Ancelotti and the gazetta dello sport pointed out many times. I'm sure you wouldn't say or think the same however, for Gianfranco Zola's experience at Chelsea.
EXACTLY. I appreciate Falvo's response because he actually has seen some games and uses real life examples and some facts to back up his point.
Ok guys where are my reps? Hehehe! Actually, I grew up worshiping the NASL then in 1996 I attended the first Clash match and followed them until 2000 when they were horrible. I left for Italy just after Landon and Agoos came and I learned to appreciate the MLS & Quakes from a far as they were always my home town team. Italian soccer however, is not easy at all. The MLS is a tough league because its played in the summer months and those are always diffficult matches. The Americans are good players and have some goal scoring threats too like MCBride, Twellman, Ching and Razov but they lack the Del Piero's, Zola's, Baggio's and Totti's not to mention players like Zidane & Nedved. If you are not on your game in Italy however, you are suddenly dropped from the Serie A to maybe the Serie C. I doubt too many great MLS players want to wake up and find themselves in the PDL after starting in the MLS. I've yet seen many do it.
some back pass is necessary.Aimless forward pass especially aimless long ball is worse and more boring than back pass. I prefer possession style to direct style.
While I do not want to discount the MLS, the MLS still has a long way as far as producing quality "big time" players. I am a fan of both leagues. Play in the MLS is technically sound but it does not have the flair of Serie A. The atmosphere right now or lack of atmosphere is major concern in Serie A. Hopefully this will change with the new laws and changes made to the stadiums. MLS has a decent atmosphere and is family friendly which is a good thing and I would take this any day over the old stadiums&violence that is Serie A and B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2m2Gu0cQA&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvIntafLa9o&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL_NzK17fHg&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcoMUMtJ5jc I could link videos all day and still be told that the MLS is better than Serie A, I guess its personal prefrence. However, I have not seen the creativity found in those videos in the MLS yet.
I'm a fan of the MLS and of the Serie A and I want the MLS to arrive to that stage however, we must be realistic here. The violence in Italy is a little bit exaggerated. There were some incidents but they were very few. The one that happend in Catania where a police officer Raciti was killed in a riot was disastrous and terrible for the game this is true. However, Catania & Palermo have been feuding forever. A freind of mine was killed out by Candlestick Park in San Francisco a few years ago just after going to a Giants game. Therefore, these things happen here in the USA also. We can say there is no violence at American sporting events but then what about when you leave the stadium? I personally wouldn't have ever walked by myself down around the Spartan Stadium area of San Jose after an Earthquakes game. When the Detroit Tigers won the World Series in the mid 80's fans rioted and burned police cars. Oakland Raiders games have also proven to have had incidents. Therefore, its not like Americans are all innocent at sporting events. This is actually the first year the two clubs found each other playing in the SERIE A, but its not a match by match occurence. Its not like all the clubs/fans in Italy do this sort of thing every week or even every year, for that matter. To think that there is violence in all Serie A matches is just plain ignorant. Its like saying all Italians or Sicilians are in the mafia or all Italian Americans are like the Sopranos. For that matter speaking in terms of soccer, its like saying the USA sucks at soccer when they clearly do not otherwise they wouldn't have been ranked highly by FIFA from 2002-2006. I mean its ludicrous to think this way in this day and age. Let's face it, the NFL Europe is nowhere near the NFL and the Euro Basketball league are light years behind the NBA so how can we say the MLS in its 11th year is close to the SERE A? Maybe we should just accept that the MLS is a good up and coming league and aspire to be a good league in the future and just leave it at that.
Hadnt there been weekly violence at multiple venues leading up to the Catania event? Regardless of specific incidents here, we don't generally have the same level of tension or violence as tends to frequent soccer in eastern/southern europe as well as south america. I can't think of a single week that has gone by of 2007 where there was not a reportded incident somewhere, ranging from the chinese kids going crazy in England to several weeks of brawls in Argentina, the events in Italy, etc. We have nothing approaching the consistency or magnitude of this in America that I know of. Also, I don't believe the point was that the MLS is better than Serie A, but that it is more entertaining, which plenty of people would agree with.
For all the world class players in the league (and I'm not trying to deny that--after all, it's not an accident Italy are world champions), I must admit to having been seriously let down by the style of play in the Serie A. My experience is that mid-table teams in Spain put on a much better show.
Ok well that truth is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe we should all watch the Serie A & the MLS matches this upcoming weeknd and compare and contrast. I'm sure you will find major differences.
Grazie! Meanwhile check out the highlights from Italy- Scotland Euro Qualifying match last week! https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11096871#post11096871 Here are all the highlights from the Serie A 2006-07 Serie A goals https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425297 Beautiful 1-2 by Crespo & Maxwell who also had a great dribble toward the goal. What a play! unbeleivable goal by Maxwel vs Parma!!!! http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=810259 http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=810412 http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=810668 http://www.d1g.com/video/show/?id=811006 Enjoy!
Ironically, after reading a post about the quality of Italian defenders, I watch the youtube videos that show absolute crap defending(against admittedly beautiful attacking efforts). I'm not knocking the Italian game mind you, I think Italy plays beautiful ball. And I think that this aesthetic quality is what really sets other leagues apart from MLS. MLS plays respectable technical ball, but is lacks the flair that makes the sport such a joy to watch. Now I'm not knocking MLS. I prefer a posession oriented style to what we see in the EPL. I just wish MLS had a little more style. Scott btw...I'm new to Big Soccer, not the sport
You see the school of Italian football is starting out with defense and beginning and ending with the counter attack. This has gone back since Nero Rocco invented the catenaccio. Its taught in the soccer schools in the camps in the youth leagues as well as the lower divisions. Around 1980 the Serie A opened the foreign gates and started letting in 2 foreign players per team. Platini & Boniek with Juventus, Maradona & Careca with Napoli and then 3 foreigners per club like Dutch trio of Van Basten, Guillit, and Rijyard with AC Milan. After the Marc Bosman ruling in 1995, things changed. You see teams like Inter starting 11 different foreigners. This is something I never could accept as I always believed it would ruin the game in Italy and the national team would suffer in the end. I don't think that has proven to be true, however. I mean the national team was 3rd in the Euro Cup in 1980, 1st in 82, 3rd in 1990, 2nd in 94 made the quarters in 1998 and made the final of the Euro Cup in 2000 & of course won it last year. Therefore, since the foreign market opened in the last 25 years, you would tend to think the game in Italy has changed but its not true. Now you have Inter, Milan and everyone else playing many different foreign players and that tough defensive style no longer seems to exist, but that isn't true. The Italian player mentality still begins with defense first. Simone Perrotta of Roma and the national team even stated last summer, "Italians have defense in their blood". Its just part of the style they were raised with. Also, you have to condsider that in Italy you have maybe 7-10 daily newspapers talking of the sport at each corner newsstand. You go to a cafe or a snack bar and people are talking of the match. On Monday they talk of Sunday's game on Wednesday you have the Euro Cups on Thursday they speak of those matches and on Friday they speak of the upcoming Sat/Sun matches. This cycle transcends to the players and fans. Our American soccer players would benefit a great deal to have this type of attention paid to them. This would raise the scope of the game and it would also raise the level of the game of the players as well. I mean to eat , drink and dream about soccer. Having said all this, I've aspired for American soccer to become like Italian soccer since the days of Ricky Davis & the Cosmos. Having a 12 year hiatus however, has put a damper on the style of the game in this country. Basically, we are just too impatient. We want to see the best and want to be the best now but it just can't happen over night.
There is no defending in the EPL. Teams get into the attacking area so easily. 0% pressure. Whoever has the ball has lots of space to work with
Here is the Under 21 friendly between England & Italy which finished 3-3. American born Italian American Giuseppe Rossi was in the lineup for Italy. It was Wembley's inagural re-opening match where 22 year old Fiorentina striker Giampaolo Pazzini scored a hat trick and was given a standing ovation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EClnAf2Efc
To Falvo: There are differences (that you refernced above) between MLS and Serie A. But if the people who run the MLS are sitting in board meetings saying "I want our product to look like Serie A," they might as well just fold now. The trend in American sports is never to aspire to quality when guiding a league, but to aspire towards crowd pleasing. Our sports regularly change rules that had stood for... 40-50 years just to make a change and inspire more of an entertainment/show aspect. EPL remains the most popular euro league in America, so I imagine that is sort of the target, that or La Liga, which is also pretty popular. The truth is that the Serie A style isn't nearly as entertaining, regardless of the supposed skill. A couple ideas of relating the leagues come to mind here: A- The notion that goals in Serie A count for nothing. Most frequently brought up in the fiasco known as Sheva. B- They don't play defense in EPL... I dunno, I don't even know what they're doing in the EPL. There isn't a whole lot of offense unless you watch Arsenal, not a whole lot of defense either... Just a whole lot of running and beating the hell out of each other with a ton of dynamic players who make things happen amidst the anarchy. It seems like the NFL of soccer leagues and I enjoy it. C- My own opinion is shifting on this, I used to always say EPL, EPL, EPL... but I think La Liga is close in terms of top to bottom entertainment. The one thing i love with the EPL is that almost every team, through the middle of the table down to the 19th team, even... has someone worth watching in every given game. When you can watch a mid table vs. a relegation battle that features the talent of say Martins and Tevez... that speaks to the entertainment value across the board. But like I said, I'm changing... And I gotta say, I really love that Zigic guy. He needs to come to an EPL team.
To tell you the absolute truth, I don't think the Americans should have to emulate any of the Euro styles but I think they should get the best styles of each league and incorporate their own starting with the youth systems. Americans as someone else stated still are trying to find a style of play. One thing they are set however, at least as far as the national team is concerned is on Goalkeeping and defense. They have a lot of depth at those positions. I think what they lack however, is overlapping wingbacks like a Cafu or a dominating left back like Paolo Maldini and of course creative midfielder's and goal scoring forwards. They're coming around but you don't have a Luca Toni coming our of nowhere to virtually dominate the whole of Europe winning the golden boot and the WC. Brian Ching come's to mind and so does Brian McBride its just that when the chips are down, as far as the national team is concerned anyway, they lose something. In 2002, I was in Italy cheering for the Americans while Italy played horribly. The trouble was or is instead of capitalizing on their success the USMNT actually seemed to revert backwards in 2006 while Italy who played terrible soccer in 2002, won the WC in 06. This is what the Serie A produces, however. They produce quality players to have a successful national team that is in line to win it every 4 years. The MLS is still far away from that kind of product. After the WC Bruce Arena was quoted that the America players need to play on top level CL clubs in Europe instead of mid or relegation battle clubs or improve the domestic league. Ivan Gazidas & Don Garber were incensed that he would even dare suggest something like that. However, they in turn invent the DP rule and spend 250 million on Beckham and try to sign Zidane. Therefore, I'm sure they listened to Arena to a certain extent and they know that the MLS must improve in all areas in order to be even thought of as a world force in terms of soccer leagues.
As someone whose two favorite leagues are MLS and Serie A in that order, it's funny to read some of the uninformed posts on here. It's easy to jump on Serie A this season for a lot of reasons. This is a tainted season because of point deductions that resulted in a runaway clear champion by Christmas. Attendance is also easy to point out, but I think next year will be very different. Many fans I think are boycotting this tainted season, but they'll come around by next year. Chievo and Ascoli will both probably be relegated and replaced with Juventus, Napoli, Genoa or Bologna. These 4 teams are traditionally better supported than most of the teams in Serie A now, and all four are in line to be promoted. As for quality of soccer, Italian teams have been consistently competitive in European football, and dozens of internationals play in the league. There's more to Serie A than just Milan, Inter and Roma. I look at teams like Lazio, Palermo, Fiorentina, Sampdoria, Udinese, Atalanta, Torino, Livorno, Parma and I see dozens of players that could EASILY be starters in MLS. When I look at our MLS teams, I only see a handful of players that could be regular starters on these Serie A teams.
The quality of the Serie A has definitely gone down this season. You have little clubs like Empoli doing well and looking for a place in Europe but they would never have been at that level had everyone started else out evenly. Even when the points were reinstated, teams still had to play catch up. Lazio is playing exceptionally well and for a team that was litterally stripped of all its champion players. This could actually be used as a model for the MLS teams to follow. The same goes for Roma where coach Luciano Spalletti has gotten the most out of his youth team players like Aquillani, and some young guys like Mancini, Tonetto, Mexes and of course Brian McBride's friend DeRossi. Not having a Juventus in the Serie A is kind of like having the LA Galaxy, Houston or DC United all of a sudden play in the USL. When you lose a team like that, not only will your regular season games suffer but so will the midweek games and fans all over Italy will not go see for example, Empoli vs. Messina or Reggina vs. Torino. Juve has fans all over Italy and they are one of the biggest draws next to Milan and Inter. Every time these teams travel to a small venue, usually, you will see sold out stadia. Something you touched upon is how Napoli & Genoa are about to be promoted. Those two clubs alone were in the C1 (or 3rd division) last year. To move up that quickly from the 3rd to the 1st is no small feet. Another point I'd like to touch on is the MLS/SERIE A stadia. I've been to the Artemio Franchi Stadium in Florence and its real nice as is the Stadio Olimpico in Rome but they are huge and watching a game there , although fun its not the same as the smaller MLS cozy atmosphere. I've had mixed emotions about the MLS and how they treated my SJ Quakes but I think a positive thing for the league are the SSS. I wish more community's across the US & Canada would build more of these as I think its what will make the sport into the future and make it endure in the long run.
Check out these goals from Italian soccer! Another nice goal by Quagliarella https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510152 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhaIq9W_cI http://www.channel4.com/sport/footba...lia/apr1n.html Stefano Mauri https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503037 Or from the Serie B Matteo Serafini BRESCIA-Juventus 3-1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwwFP-lQNYw&mode=related&search
To Boloni: There's a huge difference between having higher quality/superior players and being entertaining. Chelsea is loaded with talent and competitive in every single competition they enter. Doesn't make them entertaining. Not many of the posts on this thread seem ill-informed. Most of them have been along the lines of "We don't like to watch this as much" or a few posts in the opposite. This has little to do with how informed you are. Yes, this season is different, but you can't ignore this season as if it isn't part of the broader Serie A. The scandals, attendance, teams relegated, etc. That might make this year less than average, but it is still part of the overall whole. The fact that games were fixed isn't going away, nor is the fact that Inter will win an illegitimate championship. All of these things won't just vanish into thin air on June 1st.
Fair enough. It's just hard for me to understand someone not being entertained by what I think is high level soccer. It's even harder for me to understand an unbiased person thinking that MLS is more entertaining than Serie A. If I ignore all my loyalties and just judge the 22 players on the field, there's no way I could say that. And as far as the crisis in Serie A this year, it doesn't bother me much. The only thing that bothers me is that policeman's death, and I hope that the right changes will be made to prevent that in the future. As far as scandals and such, those are things that come and go and they won't permanently change the game unless it becomes endemic and we have them every year. Many other of the great European leagues have survived corruption and fan violence issues. The bottom line is that Serie A clubs have a lot of equity in their identities, and the fans still love the colors. The sport in general is as popular as ever in Italy due to the WC.