Serie A Assignments & Discussion (Rs)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by fischietto, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Matchday #11

    ATALANTA – CAGLIARI h. 12.30
    ABISSO
    COLAROSSI – DI IORIO
    IV: RAPUANO
    VAR: ORSATO
    AVAR: DI PAOLO

    BOLOGNA – INTER Sabato 02/11 h. 18.00
    LA PENNA
    PASSERI – CECCONI
    IV: MARINELLI
    VAR: VALERI
    AVAR: DEL GIOVANE

    FIORENTINA – PARMA h. 18.00
    PAIRETTO
    VIVENZI – VECCHI
    IV: PRONTERA
    VAR: FABBRI
    AVAR: VALERIANI

    GENOA – UDINESE
    PASQUA
    MONDIN – BACCINI
    IV: MAGGIONI
    VAR: NASCA
    AVAR: BINDONI

    H. VERONA – BRESCIA
    MARIANI
    FIORITO – SCHENONE
    IV: SERRA
    VAR: MASSA
    AVAR: GALETTO

    LECCE – SASSUOLO
    ROS
    RANGHETTI – GORI
    IV: GIUA
    VAR: BANTI
    AVAR: LONGO

    MILAN – LAZIO h. 20.45
    CALVARESE
    COSTANZO – ALASSIO
    IV: SACCHI
    VAR: MANGANIELLO
    AVAR: PAGANESSI

    ROMA – NAPOLI Sabato 02/11 h. 15.00
    ROCCHI
    MELI – PERETTI
    IV: ABBATTISTA
    VAR: AURELIANO
    AVAR: LO CICERO

    SPAL – SAMPDORIA Lunedì 04/11 h. 20.45
    CHIFFI
    LIBERTI – CAPALDO
    IV: MINELLI
    VAR: PICCININI
    AVAR: PRETI

    TORINO – JUVENTUS Sabato 02/11 h. 20.45
    DOVERI
    GIALLATINI – TEGONI
    IV: GUIDA
    VAR: MARESCA
    AVAR: CARBONE
     
  2. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Matchday #12

    BRESCIA – TORINO Sabato 09/11 h. 15.00
    GUIDA
    LIBERTI – VALERIANI
    IV: MARINI
    VAR: NASCA
    AVAR: SCHENONE

    CAGLIARI – FIORENTINA h. 12.30
    LA PENNA
    BRESMES – FIORE
    IV: GIUA
    VAR: DOVERI
    AVAR: GIALLATINI

    INTER – H. VERONA Sabato 09/11 h. 18.00
    VALERI
    BOTTEGONI – ROCCA
    IV: DI MARTINO
    VAR: GIACOMELLI
    AVAR: VIVENZI

    JUVENTUS – MILAN h. 20.45
    MARESCA
    PRETI – CARBONE
    IV: MARIANI
    VAR: MAZZOLENI
    AVAR: RANGHETTI

    LAZIO – LECCE
    MANGANIELLO
    LONGO – MANGANELLI
    IV: MASSIMI
    VAR: PAIRETTO
    AVAR: DI IORIO

    NAPOLI – GENOA Sabato 09/11 h. 20.45
    CALVARESE
    DEL GIOVANE – VILLA
    IV: ABBATTISTA
    VAR: CHIFFI
    AVAR: MONDIN

    PARMA – ROMA h. 18.00
    FABBRI
    TOLFO – DI VUOLO
    IV: GHERSINI
    VAR: BANTI
    AVAR: ALASSIO

    SAMPDORIA – ATALANTA
    IRRATI
    DE MEO – PRENNA
    IV: PEZZUTO
    VAR: DI PAOLO
    AVAR: TEGONI

    SASSUOLO – BOLOGNA Venerdì 08/11 h. 20.45
    PICCININI
    GALETTO – CALIARI
    IV: FOURNEAU
    VAR: ROCCHI
    AVAR: CECCONI

    UDINESE – SPAL
    MASSA
    PAGANESSI – SANTORO
    IV: AYROLDI
    VAR: ABISSO
    AVAR: PASSERI
     
  3. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Matchday #18

    Massa returns to referee Milan after nearly 3 years. He was involved in a very controversial Milan-Juventus game where he and AAR Doveri awarded a dubious (incorrect) 93' handball penalty to Juve.

    ATALANTA – PARMA Lunedì 06/01 h. 15.00
    PASQUA
    VIVENZI – CALIARI
    IV: MINELLI
    VAR: LA PENNA
    AVAR: PERETTI

    BOLOGNA – FIORENTINA Lunedì 06/01 h. 12.30
    VALERI
    VALERIANI – LO CICERO
    IV: PICCININI
    VAR: MARIANI
    AVAR: GALETTO

    BRESCIA – LAZIO h. 12.30
    MANGANIELLO
    DE MEO – SANTORO
    IV: GHERSINI
    VAR: MAZZOLENI
    AVAR: DI IORIO

    GENOA – SASSUOLO h.18.00
    IRRATI
    MANGANELLI – MACADDINO
    IV: FOURNEAU
    VAR: DI PAOLO
    AVAR: RANGHETTI

    JUVENTUS – CAGLIARI Lunedì 06/01 h.15.00
    GIACOMELLI
    LIBERTI – BOTTEGONI
    IV: VOLPI
    VAR: BANTI
    AVAR: CECCONI

    LECCE – UDINESE Lunedì 06/01 h.18.00
    GIUA
    PRETI – IMPERIALE
    IV: PRONTERA
    VAR: MARESCA
    AVAR: FIORITO

    MILAN – SAMPDORIA Lunedì 06/01 h.15.00
    MASSA
    ALASSIO – DI VUOLO
    IV: AYROLDI
    VAR: PAIRETTO
    AVAR: BINDONI

    NAPOLI – INTER Lunedì 06/01 h.20.45
    DOVERI
    PASSERI – DEL GIOVANE
    IV: FABBRI
    VAR: CALVARESE
    AVAR: GIALLATINI

    ROMA – TORINO h.20.45
    DI BELLO
    SCHENONE – VECCHI
    IV: CHIFFI
    VAR: ABISSO
    AVAR: COSTANZO

    SPAL – H. VERONA h.15.00
    GUIDA
    PAGANESSI – DI GIOIA
    IV: MASSIMI
    VAR: NASCA
    AVAR: MONDIN
     
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  4. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Matchday #19
    Three big games this round. Should be entertaining stuff

    CAGLIARI – MILAN Sabato 11/01 h. 15.00
    ABISSO
    RANGHETTI – ROCCA
    IV: DIONISI
    VAR: NASCA
    AVAR: DEL GIOVANE

    FIORENTINA – SPAL
    LA PENNA
    BACCINI – BRESMES
    IV: ABBATTISTA
    VAR: DI PAOLO
    AVAR: VALERIANI

    H. VERONA – GENOA h. 18.00
    MARIANI
    BINDONI – DI IORIO
    IV: CHIFFI
    VAR: VALERI
    AVAR: LO CICERO

    INTER – ATALANTA Sabato 11/01 h. 20.45
    ROCCHI

    CARBONE – GIALLATINI
    IV: DOVERI
    VAR: IRRATI
    AVAR: VIVENZI

    LAZIO – NAPOLI Sabato 11/01 h. 18.00
    ORSATO

    TEGONI – GALETTO
    IV: GIUA
    VAR: PAIRETTO
    AVAR: SCHENONE

    PARMA – LECCE Lunedì 13/01 h.20.45
    FABBRI
    CECCONI – COLAROSSI
    IV: SOZZA
    VAR: MASSA
    AVAR: LIBERTI

    ROMA – JUVENTUS h. 20.45
    GUIDA

    MELI – FIORITO
    IV: GIACOMELLI
    VAR: MAZZOLENI
    AVAR: PAGANESSI

    SAMPDORIA – BRESCIA
    CALVARESE
    GORI – MUTO
    IV: MANGANIELLO
    VAR: DI BELLO
    AVAR: MANGANELLI

    TORINO – BOLOGNA
    PICCININI
    PRENNA – MONDIN
    IV: MARINI
    VAR: BANTI
    AVAR: DE MEO

    UDINESE – SASSUOLO h.12.30
    VOLPI
    PERETTI – COSTANZO
    IV: PASQUA
    VAR: MARESCA
    AVAR: LONGO
     
  5. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Very interesting situation from recent Coppa Italia game, Parma - Roma.

    Would be interested in your thoughts!

    https://streamable.com/lttfl
     
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  6. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. There's a bunch of decisions in there.

    I think offside is the correct decision. It's close (because the white player is sliding in), but the blue player plays the ball through to an attacker in the offside position. on the way through, the ball hits another white player. That seems to me to be a deflection and not a deliberate play, so it does not "reset" the offside. The attacker in the offside position then interferes with play by playing the ball out wide, so to me, it's offside.

    I would consider a yellow to the keeper, though, for a reckless tackle notwithstanding the offside. If the whistle went before the tackle by the keeper, then I would still book him, but for unsporting behavior more generally.

    I think.

    Though I could be wrong.

    It's a lot in a very short amount of time.
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I pretty much agree with @ColoradoRef here.

    My additions to the discussion are:

    1) In any game without VAR, offside is not only the easier decision here, it's the right decision. The initial ball through is an attempted pass. If the last touch actually comes off the tackling player as that pass is made, for practical purposes I find that irrelevant. And then the touch off the second defender definitely qualifies as a deflection rather than a play, so offside is not reset. Offside position is clear. There was an attempted pass to that player. Flag needs to go up and whistle needs to come. It is not as though the tackling player send the ball backward when there was no attempt by the attacker to play it. This isn't as tricky as it could be.

    2) As for the potential yellow card, I think in a non-professional setting you might almost have to give it. In a professional setting, unless it seems to incite something or come in the context of a match where there's been a lot of misconduct, I think the player's expectations is that if it's offside, everyone can move on.

    3) Side note that VAR could only check this if the ball ended in the net or if the potential foul would have been DOGSO. The ball didn't end in the net and the last touch of the attacker before being felled was away from goal, so I really don't think you can make a credible argument for DOGSO. As such, if this had been incorrectly flagged (and to repeat, I think it's the correct call), this is one of those situations VAR couldn't fix.
     
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  8. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Thanks for your views!

    Another interesting situation from Coppa Italia in the Napoli - Perugia game, penalty (handling) given after an On-Field Review.

    https://streamable.com/okloh
     
  9. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Body to hand doesn't count.

    Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:
    • directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
     
  10. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017

    It is usually an offence if a player:
    • touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
    The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.”

    I think the fact the arm is above the shoulder is why the fact it off of his leg is disregarded.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why did it take so long after the OFR to award the penalty if that was his decision? Did he need the VAR to check the build-up for offside?

    That's the type of play that needs to be watched at 100% speed. If watched at 100% speed, I don't think there's a chance anyone says it's clearly wrong. You slow it down to 50% or 25% and you can start convincing yourself there's a distinct handling motion after the deflection. At 100% speed, that doesn't happen.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the player is deliberately playing the ball. It's the parenthetical in the third bullet you cite.

    Also I don't think this gets classified as above shoulder height when we go down to still frames. His left arm is basically perpendicularly out and that left shoulder is below the right shoulder. So the left arm, which has the handball contact, is at or below shoulder length, depending upon which shoulder you measure by.
     
  13. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    We are now what almost 2-3 years into this system and it really hasn't gotten any better and more efficient.

    I'm not really interested in the debate of whether it was the right call or right intervention.

    Those three minutes it took to send the referee over to do an OFR and then for the referee to award the penalty were simply unwatchable. Just ruining the game.

    No can convince me that delay is worth it to "get the call right." People can live without getting that call right every single time.

    As much as we laugh and ridicule the EPL for not doing OFRs, this is a textbook example of what, IN THEORY, the EPL's "system" COULD avoid.
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory, yes. But an English VAR would just watch it for two minutes by himself and hold the game up anyway. So not in practice.

    And again, just like in England, the problem here is training. A play like that is supposed to be looked at with 100% speed. If the VAR does that a couple times and takes the “clearly wrong” standard into account, a 20-30 second check leads to play-on and a corner kick. The problem here is the VAR convinced himself otherwise. And then the referee did, too. And then—I think—they realized they had to check the offside (which should have been done already). And each of these individual stages took longer than it should.

    VAR was always going to slow the game down. But I think people—important people—vastly underestimated just how much it would do so. It’s an entirely new system of officiating and it’s implemented, essentially, with an edict to participants that it is about getting things right. Officials are acting accordingly, which means slowing things down and being sure. Only more training and more forceful directives about “clearly wrong” can help.
     
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  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    This weekend's crunch clash between Juventus and Inter, to be played behind closed doors, will be refereed by Guida. Mazzoleni is VAR.
     
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  16. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    This game is as close as you can get to a single-game playoff for Serie A. Vitally important.

    It's a shame it has to be played behind closed doors. There was some talk of moving it to Rome.
     
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  17. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    This match has been postponed until May.
     
  18. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    In what one might kindly describe as an administrative farce - this match has been unpostponed and is now scheduled to be played (behind closed doors) this Sunday.
     
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  19. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    JUVENTUS – INTER
    GUIDA
    MELI – CARBONE
    IV: MARESCA
    VAR: MAZZOLENI
    AVAR: PAGANESSI
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  21. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    My only quibble with the sequence is I really don’t think Conti’s handball is a yellow card

    We all know that Italy’s handball interpretation is among the severest - do we think such a play gets sent down in other leagues? MLS I’d say no, EPL definitely not. I’m not familiar enough with Bundesliga use to comment.
     
  22. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Is Rocchi limping?
     
  23. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    he received some of the magic spray so let’s see if that helps.
     
  24. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    I do wonder if we'll see Mariani in the 2H, he already took a spray treatment and looks in some measure of discomfort.

    What sanction would you give the foul at the end of the 1H? Correct to issue a SYC for Young in my view, tricky incident rather at the referee's discretion.
     
  25. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I missed the incident between icing my ankle. :( my apologies
     

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