Pre-match: September Camp Roster Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gomichigan24, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    He has one goal in 9 appearances for the US, and at least IMO has not looked very good when he has played. I think those 9 appearances and his time in camp are much more than just one missed goal, and should carry much more weight than the goals he’s scored for his club.

    I’m fine with calling him in if he’s scoring goals, but his performance for his clubs just hasn’t translated to success for the national team yet.
     
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  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    So you could say 9 appearances, or you could say 300 minutes, basically the equivalent of 3 starts, with the 1 goal.

    I'd agree he doesn't look like a good fit for the system, at all, but he's also, based on the evidence I can find, a legit finisher at Forward against legit competition and also ran quality competition.

    Could provide value as a late game sub due to his finishing skill, I have him behind Ferreira, Pepi and Dike for now, based on my expectations of what Berhalter will do mixed with a feeling that Dike is a better fit for what we do than Pefok.
     
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  3. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pefok looks too lumbering to press effectively. At least to my eyes.

    Still, he does possess a quality of a big guy in the box and aerial threat that Ferrreira/Pepi don't. If we take three true 9's, I see a role he could play as a sub.

    Camp is fine, but I think we should also look at guys who can do some of the same #9 things Pefok can (Vazquez?).
     
  4. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The issue to me is going to be between Pefok and Dike IF we need to take a big guy. The question being is Pefok the better big guy for scoring a goal compared to Dike being the better overall player?
     
  5. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Yeah, we're not taking 4 #9s to Qatar! Think Jesus and Pepi are the near locks then only 1 of Pefok and Dike.
     
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  6. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Pepi is a lock at all any more. If he struggles to get minutes and contribute this Fall then I could easily see him being left off the plane in favor of strikers getting it done. I do think he is favored right now... so I think he would be chosen over the others (aside from Ferreira) if the numbers are even remotely close. But not assured.
     
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  7. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I don't think Pepi has to do a lot the first half of the season to get to Qatar, but he does have to do something. If he's not scoring at all and seeing a lot of time on the bench, I think the door is wide open for others. In his favor is that the only other guy even playing at the same level is Pefok and he seems to not be what Berhalter wants up top. Pepi already showed ha can score in MLS, which is where the other options are going to have to show themselves. Best case they prove they can do what he's already done. Pepi gets a lot of minutes and knocks in even a few goals and he's looking good.
     
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  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I believe you have it exactly right. He's in position for a spot right now, but his hold on it is tenuous. He doesn't have to do much to keep it, but he does have to do something.
     
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  9. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Speaking of strikers, I'm curious if we have any forwards more similar to Ferreira. As a team, we seem to look more cohesive up top with him on the field and I tend to credit that to his style, being more mobile, getting on the ball more, able to drop and play-make a bit. I don't really see any others who play that style up top. But, if it is a style that works better with this team, wouldn't it be good to be looking into more guys who can offer what he brings rather than striving for a more traditional striker? He may be the best option in that mode but just wondering if he is the only choice if we want a more mobile center forward or if it is play Ferreira or go with more of a standard issue striker. I feel like I see a decent amount of talk that Ferreira is the guy who we look best with up top but that we need to also identify a more direct player for that spot as an option. But, if Ferreira is the guy the team clicks with best, I have to wonder if we need more focus on finding who else can play like him instead of so much focus on finding someone different. Any players in his mold that would be good enough to get a call?
     
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  10. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Our top players are young and like to move fast, Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, Aaronson, Musah, McKennie, Dest, etc. The 9 needs to fit with them. It's not like we have a slow plodding 9 who's knocking in goals by the dozens that we should build around. I think that's why many were so critical of Wright. He was plodding and walking around. That's not going to cut it with his teammates or how they want to play.
     
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  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    He's a luxury "get a goal like he did against Honduras in NL" call up.

    He doesn't fit our approach unless he picks it up in Germany, and I have a hard time believing he can pick all that up in a couple of months and also turn into a player physically, that he simply hasn't been.

    But he can get a goal in the box at any time, and is a fantastic finisher, Azteca be damned.

    He may be too much of a luxury, he certainly can't and shouldn't start at the WC and do you leave a spot for that in the 26 knowing that? For me, it depends entirely on what happens with Dike, Pepi, Ferreira, Wright, Tillman, Sargent, Vasquez and whomever else pokes their head up the parapet the next couple of months in the lead up to roster release. Injuries opens a spot, production by the guys above could change things too.

    My expectation remains that Ferreira and Pepi are there if healthy, and everyone else is fighting for a camp invite in September as the final guy, then grab it there, stay healthy and stick for the final roster decision.

    I don't think anyone is a favorite, and it's a shame Vasquez wasn't there in June because failing to be there then hurt his cause more than his play. Personally my preferences are Dike, Tillman, Pefok, Wright in that order, than Vazquez, but it wouldn't surprise me if Vazquez grabs the ticket if this production continues, and then either grabs the job, or loses it by his play in that camp.

    As for Pefok, let me underline, I'm more inclined to just defend what he's accomplished and his abilities, rather than promote him as the solution to our issues, I get that he's not a good fit for what Berhalter wants. My March argument has remained, my sole argument with him, he scores goals, a lot of them, he's damn good in the box, and until we find a forward that can do that, just laughing him off as an option (3rd option or 4th), strikes me as absurd. I don't want to start him, but until our forwards start scoring in the shirt on the regular against teams that aren't trash, we can't simply ignore him. That's all.
     
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  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I don't know about Vazquez because he has not played yet. Pepi and Pefok complement each other because Pefok can be put in to get a needed goal at the end of a game when other stuff is less important. and Pepi can play the pressing, passing, opening space for guys that Ferreira brings in case Ferreira is n/a. Different games states, different skills, different game plan means different players.
     
  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lletget? (ducks when the rocks fly)
     
  14. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I get that and will refrain from throwing a rock, but if we're talking about midfielders who we could reasonably try as a false 9, I'd prefer to go with Reyna or Aaronson. I was more wondering if we have someone that regularly lines up as a striker but who is more of a playmaking type of forward or at least swaps back and forth between the roles regularly like Ferreira. It seems like most of the options people talk about are the bigger more standard lead the line and occupy the center backs types and I was struggling to come up with any strikers more in Ferreira's mold anywhere in the pool.
     
  15. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd honestly take Vasquez now. It's getting old trying to fit the ones we've tried to fit. Keep trying is my motto but not trying the same thing.

    But really, the Pefok thing is off IMO. He gets a lot of flack here for one play. One mistake. I watch him and he's certainly not 'lumbering' as someone claimed. Those labels make it easier to push your favorite(s) to the forefront and I get that but come on. Yes he's better inside.

    Not too many US fans are going to be 100% on board with whoever makes the final roster. '26 better be different up front.
     
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  16. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's certainly earned a September tryout. Staff gets to see him in practice every day and if he fits and kills he he gets game minutes to keep impressing.

    I was more harsh about his lackadaisical pressing. Wright was the same. I've never called him lumbering but if the whole team presses except for the top of the spear it won't work. So if he can't do that he still has a chance as a off the bench guy when the team needs a goal but unless his new team gets more out of him or he goes all Haaland to start the season he won't be a starter.
     
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  17. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We just don't have a complete F anywhere. All of them have warts and so far none have impressed. I'd give Vasquez a look for that reason alone. He sure isn't exactly what we need but he might just fit.
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree w/ the first paragraph, not the second.

    It's a meme now Pefok's being dismissed on one miss. That's always been a straw man/red herring for most. He was brutal overall in that Mexico game. Couldn't trap the ball, make a run, and was breaking down our press. He was mediocre at best in his start v. Canada. And he was blowing golden opportunities at El Salvador too. We got better at Northern Ireland after Pefok came off and was replaced by Dike. Immediately Dike was able to get on the ball, link up, and help create chances. Pefok was pretty putzy v. Mexico in UNL.

    His lone claim to fame was scoring at home v. Honduras. In reality, this has been a process of disillusionment w/ his performances, that culminated w/ his overall play and that miss at Mexico, to where it's like, if he can't even do that, what's the point of him. You should then abide by your motto of "next man up". He's going to have to tear up the Bundesliga to break back in. Then he'd still have to prove it for the Nats ahead of the WC. That's a small window to create an opportunity and seize on it.
     
  19. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that I am pretty much alone wrt Pefok. He hasn't shined for the US yet for whatever reasons. Maybe it's a fit thing for the US but I like what I see from him in club play.
     
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  20. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In Tenorio's podcast yesterday he asked Berhalter about the forward position and mentioned Ferreira, Dike, Sargent and Pefok. Berhalter added Pepi first thing in his response to the question but there was no mention of Vazquez (by either party). Berhalter's response seemed pretty keyed in on choosing from among players that have already been in camps. He's usually pretty good about "correcting" questioners when they omit someone, so the fact that he didn't bring up Vazquez in the 23 minute interview (that I recall, anyway) doesn't bode well for BV.
     
  21. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll be shocked if Vazquez isn't there in September at this point.
     
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  22. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before watching that interview I was with you, but what Berhalter said didn't leave me with the impression that Vazquez was even in consideration at this point. Of course, I'll grant that he may just have simply failed to bring BV up but he definitely had a chance and didn't.

    Nonetheless, I'll still be disappointed if he doesn't get a September camp callup.
     
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  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I noticed that as well. With respect to guys not BV, - i.e., Pefok, Pepi - Berhalter has a month of games to see them against higher level competition in BL and they've both been in camps. If they do well enough he will take them along with Ferreira, imo. Hoppe at M/boro and Dike may be in contention if Pefok and/or Pepi look hopeless.

    My sense is that Pepi has the widest skill set and therefore comes closest to being a Ferreira replacement. He probably makes it along with Pefok but if Pefok is hopeless with Berlin, Dike or Hoppe might get the shot instead.

    My guess is that BV doesn't get the September call up becauase there just is not any time anymore to get him prepped while giving the team the final tune up before kick off in Qatar.
     
  24. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may end up being right, and I agree with your general layout of "who needs to do what to get called up in September", but on this day all of the variables are crapshoots. The beginning of this European season is more intriguing to me than it's ever been, as it relates to the USMNT.
     
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  25. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Yeah, so much can and will happen between now and the September window, and again between that and the World Cup. It’s very easy to imagine one guy being hot in the next 6 weeks, then cooling off substantially. Or the opposite. Injuries are almost certainly to play a role as well.
     
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