Senior Team Discussion

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Vieri's Left Foot, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Yeah that Bellingham is a gem.. Italy will probably still win their next trophy before them. I'm just hoping common sense prevails.
     
  2. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Let’s talk about absolutely nothing then
     
  3. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
     
  4. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Good article. And notice when a team did win a big championship with a back 3, it was always with a lone striker and the 2 players behind him (either the 8 or 10/half winger).

    Capello is right about the copying the worst aspects of Pep’s game. And even someone like Gigi Cagni has been saying this for years. In Italy we have developed this Frankenstein tactic. 352, low back line, horizontal passes, back passes. But no passing plays up the middle, no attempt the unlock defences. If the mids can’t pick out a long pass to the striker, they send it to the wings. The wingers don’t dribble and just play the cross. We get the dreaded U of death. What a disaster. I was getting an ulcer watching this week watching Napoli vs. Lazio. And then I got flash backs from Gattuso’s Italy. There’s no escaping this prison right now.
     
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  5. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yeah exactly it's the worst of both worlds. Everyone is correct in their assessments even if some are pointing out certain aspects and some are pointing out others. We have not fully modernized but in many ways we have its just our top teams play the way smaller teams play around the world so they all cancel each other out with this low risk possession football.

    Its a problem even in the premier league now where the small teams play this painful build from the back football where they don't have the technique to pull it off and the players that have the most touches on the ball are the centre backs.

    Pepism needs to die.

     
  6. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    the Italian national team is the one sports team I am a diehard for. This to me is bearable because the structure of international football is built on the longterm. Most qualifiers you expect to win so its all based on scouting the players available the tactics the managers the youth. I don't know how people are diehards for clubs and face the merry-go round every year with full regular seasons and stressful games every weekend. To me that is a chore. Supporting the Azzurri is easy even in this dark period.

    Of course at this point of 3 failures it is so absurd that many will have to just give up on the project and it's understandable and so you should. No one could blame you. To me even if we permanently fell to a low position the narrative would still be interesting to follow. I've lived the successes. Most people that are die hards for clubs have not experienced the same highs.
    Neither have England fans.

    For me it is not about clinging to hope. I accept our reality and the fact that it actually is likely to get even worse if trends continue but again I follow football mainly through the prism of the national team so the narrative remains interesting.
     
  7. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You’re expressing the precise attitude that explains why we are in this mess. The idea that a player can’t get better. Who you are today is who you will always be. There can’t be a technical or even athletic growth in a player. This is how the average DS in Italy thinks and this is why we continue to import these 3rd rate foreigners.
     
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  8. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I was following a debate on twitter where a Napoli fan (boomer) said that Hasa and Rao are not ready for Serie A because “they haven’t proved anything yet.” Yet Vergara comes from Serie B and gets thrown in the fire in Serie A, and shows he belongs. My point here is that many fans are stupid
     
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  9. lt22677

    lt22677 Member+

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    Manc
    Buon Articolo però devo riscontrare qualcosa che NON SONO D'ACCORDO andiamo per Ordine(in Rosso metto quello affermato dal autore dell'articolo):

    - dobbiamo segnalare l’eccezione, rappresentata dall’Italia di Roberto Mancini campione d’Europa nel 2021. Al netto del percorso in quel torneo (aiutato da una buona dose di fortuna)
    OK qua siamo al classico "il mio è bravura, il tuo è C**O" cioè abbiamo il record di partite internazionali senza sconfitte, abbiamo giocato partite in cui gli avversari facevano fatica a toccare la palla e si parla di FORTUNA! abbiamo sofferto solo in semifinale e all'inizio della finale (giocavamo fuoricasa e la fortuna l'ha avuta l'Inghilterra a finire ai rigori) e veramente SI CREDE CHE E' STATA LA DEA BENDATA HA FARCI VINCERE L'EUROPEO..... poi se il ragionamento che mi FA CHE LA FORTUNA E' IMPORTANTE Beh allora pure essere in vita domani si può classificare come FORTUNA(sai che non venga un colpo mentre di dorme)

    -
    Difficile rispondere a questa domanda. Se è vero che un allenatore che si trovasse oggi per le mani un talento delle proporzioni di Baggio o Cassano
    Il problema che il talento LO DEVI INSERIRE in uno schema e nel 3-5-2 che si fa in Italia (dove si preferisce spesso la doppia prima punta) E' PIU' DIFFICILE INSERIRLO, ma a sto punto faccio pure la domanda provocatoria E SE LI HAI TUTTI E DUE? e poi ma PURE BASTA CON STA STORIA dell'allenatore e che HA IL TALENTO LO FA GIOCARE e BLAH, BLAH BLAH ricordo CHE ANCELOTTI fece fuori GIANFRANCO ZOLA (NON ERA UN TALENTO? :confused:)

    -
    E qui torniamo alle nostre nazionali giovanili, che ottengono risultati, ma che poi non forniscono giocatori a livello superiore. Come mai assistiamo a questo processo di dispersione? Innanzitutto bisognerebbe capire che i risultati dell’Italia sono spesso legati alla maturità tattica e alla qualità di gioco collettivo delle selezioni giovanili, che non producono comunque chissà quali talenti negli ultimi anni.

    ECCO QUESTA E' LA PIU' GRANDE MINCHIATA DELL'ARTICOLO a parte che mi sembra ridicolo pensare che al di fuori dell'Italia non sappiano cos'è la tattica, ma poi STO SCRITTORE l'HA MAI VISTA UNA PARTITA DELLE NAZIONALI GIOVANILI, io ho già scritto che da prima del 2018 il gioco DI OGNI NAZIONALE GIOVANILE (esclusa l'U21) era PENOSO FINO ALL'INVEROSIMILE rimetto i video highlight della nazionale U17 al Mondiale U17 del 2013 e di quella del 2024(purtroppo la partita intera non si trova , ma fidatevi che io L'HO VISTA E HO PIANTO SANGUE)

    U17 2013


    U17 2024


    VERAMENTE MI VUOLE FARE CREDERE che se sostituissi CERRI, PARIGINI, FABBRO a CAMARDA, LIBERALI e MOSCONI NON CAMBIEREBBE NIENTE E VINCEREMMO L'EUROPEO (NONOSTANTE CERRI E COMPANY HANNO SPUTATO SANGUE CONTRO LA NUOVA ZELANDA CHE LA PARTITA PRIMA ERANO STATI DISTRUTTI DALL'URUGUAY):eek:
    LA TATTICA applicata dalla due squadre è simile, quella del 2013 è un 4-4-2 con 3 mediani e un ALA\TREQUARTISTA mentre quella del 2024 e 4-1-2-1-2 con il trequartista al centro con LIBERALI che aveva libertà di svariare, eppure quelle SQUADRE PRE-2018 NON RIUSCIVANO A FARE PIU' DI 2 PASSAGGI SENZA PERDERE LA PALLA ed a ANDARE SOLO DI LANCIO LUNGO SUL PERTICONE. Come HO GIA' DETTO il Talento che esce dalla squadre giovanili VA INSERITO in un sistema tattico che ne accentui le migliori caratteristiche, E DOVE VUOI INSERIRE uno come BALDANZI, LIBERALI ecc... in un 3-5-2 Contiano o PEGGIO ANCORA ALLEGRIANO?POI l'affermazione:

    Mettendo insieme queste due considerazioni (giovani prodotti dal nostro sistema calcio e moduli delle varie rappresentative) il risultato è che finiamo per disperdere il talento che abbiamo (tanto o poco che sia, in parte non lo sapremo mai)

    In parte è condivisibile, ma il sistema che funziona è quello che crea ottimi giocatori perchè il SUPERTALENTO non è programmabile ed E' SEMPRE MEGLIO PRODURRE 10 GIOCATORI BUONI che 9 GIOCATORI MEDIOCRI e 1 STRAORDINARIO.

    Detto ciò il prossimo CT deve fare quello che ha fatto MANCINI pre Europeo 2020 perchè applicare il 3-5-2 senza avere difensori STRAORDINARI (alla Nesta e Cannavaro) e attaccanti che fanno reparto da soli significa prepararci ad altri 4 anni di PARTITE DI MERDA contro squadre di terza fascia



     
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  10. lt22677

    lt22677 Member+

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    #17236 lt22677, Apr 21, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2026
    L'ho sempre detto il 50% della colpa è dei CLUB, il 25% della FIGC (che non ha vigilato ed ha iniziato ad apportare correttivi tardi) e il restante 25% dei tifosi delle squadre di calcio CHE VOGLIONO TUTTO E SUBITO
     
  11. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    L'altro giorno stavo ascoltando OCW Sport e un tifoso dell'Inter ha detto: “Se arrivasse un'offerta di 50-60 milioni per Pio, lo venderei. Come si fa a dire di no a quei soldi per un giocatore che ha segnato solo 5 gol?”. Ecco l'estrema ignoranza con cui abbiamo a che fare.

    Un altro esempio è il giornalista del Napoli Carlo Alvino. Per lui Conte è un genio assoluto. Non gli importa che giochiamo da schifo. Per lui la cosa più importante in questo momento è arrivare secondi solo per poter prendere in giro i juventini e i milanisti.
     
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  12. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
  13. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    The riforma Zola is a Lega Pro / Serie C youth-development reform tied to Gianfranco Zola. In practical terms, it does three main things: it sharply increases financial rewards for clubs that use young players from their own academies, it rewards investment in youth infrastructure and coaching, and from 2028–29 it is meant to require each club’s youth list to include at least eight homegrown players. Lega Pro presented it as a way to make Serie C more of a development league again and to help produce more Italian talent for the future.

    Why it matters politically today is that Matteo Marani made it one of the key points in his meetings with both Malagò and Abete. The official Lega Pro line was that the reform is considered “fundamental” for sustainability, development, and the valorization of young Italian talent. Zola himself said today that the reform has already produced encouraging results, with more young players from clubs’ own youth sectors reaching first teams.

    What Abodi said today: his strongest football point was that you cannot protect the national team unless Italian players actually play. In Senate, he said there needs to be at least some protection for national players, because if they do not get minutes, they do not provide competitiveness for the Azzurri. He also pushed three other themes: modern stadiums, independent referees, and giving a share of betting-related value back to the organizers of the sporting event rather than leaving clubs outside that value chain.

    On the more explosive issue of a commissioner, Abodi has been more cautious than some politicians. The reporting around the Senate hearing says his line is basically that changing the president is not enough, but a commissariamento has objective difficulties, and it is not something to treat lightly.

    What Marcheschi said: his hardest line has been that this is not mainly a problem of names, and that real reform may require powers that only a commissioner would have. Today he also spoke of a “bozza zero” for reform — not yet a final law, but a draft direction — with six themes reportedly including:

    1. a football share from sports-betting proceeds,
    2. anti-piracy money for youth sectors and grassroots facilities,
    3. new TV-rights distribution criteria tied to youth development and sustainability,
    4. labor/tax changes in sport,
    5. limits on agent percentages, and
    6. an extraordinary commissioner to implement reform. That six-point outline is being reported in the press, not presented as a finalized enacted package.
    Summary of some of the action today
     
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  14. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
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  15. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    Bastoni out again, absolutely no reason he should have played in that Bosnia game. Might be mental though at this point.
     
  16. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Dimarco is literally a cone in defense.
     
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  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  18. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Inter have 0 gas. Como wiping their ass with them
     
  19. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Como was always going to win the Coppa Italia. It just the perfect ending to the death of Italian ball.
     
  20. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The laughing stock of the world is an incredible position to be in, this is a tremendous opportunity to reform down our own path on our own trajectory. F the others. Who gives a s*** about them they can do as the please and they will be distracted this summer. The other nations, media, etc can do as they wish. This summer another nation wins the Jules Rimet...great, congrats, idgaf because Italia has our own project if we can get it moving!

    I don't know whether to be patient or how to interpret all of the news that comes out day to day....it all still feels too bureaucratic. All I know is now is the time to move forward! we have to start now this is the greatest opportunity we may ever have. That is what is frustrating me the most. I do not have any position of power and I want to move this thing ahead right now, that is how I feel and I want the positions of power to feel this way

    Also, I just enjoyed watching Colombo, Ekhator, Baldanzi all get to play together regardless of opponent. That's it. it was fun and they played a fun open style on that day. it was a throwback to a more enjoyable time of Serie A.
     
  21. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You can see it as the death. I frame it as the potential rebirth
     
  22. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Inter still has a chance
     
  23. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    lol amazing turnover
     
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