Senior Team Discussion

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Vieri's Left Foot, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You’re missing the forest for the trees here.
     
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  2. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Source?
     
  3. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Teams like Torino, Hellas, Lecce and Udinese are all Italian owned. And they’re lucky if they field one Italian a game. I don’t think the ownership matters at this point.

    My broader point is that Italian tactics are moribund. 13/20 teams in Serie A play some form of 3-5-2. The top teams in Serie B play 3-5-2. It was at one time a nice tactical innovation 15 years ago, but now it has become the default setting of every coach in the country. It’s purely reactive. Doesn’t valourize talents and doesn’t work outside of Italy. Teams that don’t have any good wingbacks will still play just because it gives the coach the opportunity to insert another CB.

    And then here comes Cesc and just shows the entire country what happens when you set up your team to press hard. Aside from my hope that Como recruit good young Italian players, I really hope that Cesc inspires younger Italian coaches in the league.
     
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  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    “Boh!”?

    Nun u saccio! :cool:
     
  5. Baggio1985

    Baggio1985 New Member

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 5, 2025
    Lets hope this is not true, he is absolutely not at senior team level.
     
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  6. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    For me, the idea that young Italian players need to leave the country is a bitter pill to swallow. I can't wrap my head around it. That is probably a sign that it is becoming true. I still believe Serie A can be a development ground. I guess the problem are the leaders - I see massive potential in Serie A and ways to reinvestment in youth development and prioritize Italians in the league, but if the leaders and coaches are too stubborn, then what is the point? I think what bothers me is if our youth is sent out to different leagues, do we lose our chance to re-establish an identity? Up until recently, I thought yes, we would suffer an even worse identity crisis. But then you've pointed out Reggiani recently. This could be a moment of sad reality for myself. I still remain stubborn and wish for more Italians to play in Serie A through good and bad. Also, with young Italians having to leave the country early, to me it opens the doors to vulture nations snapping them up under their national team declaration. Because in my opinion, the Italians are very weak at playing the diaspora game still. And you have to be open to it to really have a deep national setup these days.

    Now, in my opinion, tactically, it's time to kill the 3-5-2. Or ok, maybe not kill the tactic, but we need tactical flexibility in Serie A. I do not like Como, but if they are showing a different way to play in Serie A, then again this is an easier pill for me to swallow than young Italians having to be shuffled out of the league system. The former is difficult for me to admit to.
     
  7. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Watch fans booing Bastoni will ultimately drive him out of Italy. Rumor is he wants to join Barca and they are very interested. At least he will learn to play the 4-3-3.
     
  8. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    I was checking the starting lineups for the 8 Champions league teams today and they all had a starting back 4.

     
  9. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Cesc is the new pep
     
  10. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Good, get him out of here. I put him on the same level of sportsmanship as that toothy punk Suarez.
     
  11. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    They've actually been pretty good since January ... its a horrible season but its technically a historic turn around no team with the amount of point and losses they had by Christmas has ever not been relegated.

    Hopefully they can build something positive for next year. They have talent. It was a perfect storm to start the season with a tough schedule so many personal and tactical changes and the poor defence. The midfield has been good.
     
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  12. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Has Gattuso announced the final squad for World Cup playoffs yet?
     
  13. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Ndour has caught my eye more than once this season.
     
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  14. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Gravina's New "Project"

    Basically he says we are going to emphasize technical skill over tactics in our youth systems and that will fix things. If only our young boys just play with the ball a little more, everything will be fine.

    Not only is this 15 years late, but it's kind of useless. The whole system is broken. Not enough kids are playing soccer to begin with in Italy. So, you have to make it fun again and get kids of all backgrounds and income levels to participate. That means funding for youth teams to take on low income kids that have talent.

    Next, you need a youth system that prioritizes talent over money. Do we have honest talent evaluators that are picking the most skilled/athletic players, or do we have a system of raccomandati and side deals? If it is the latter, how do we break it?

    How do we get clubs to INVEST in youth systems rather than cheap buys?

    None of this is addressed by Gravina's appointment of Prandelli and Viscidi to cheerlead about being more technical.
     
  15. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I hope Atalanta can somewhat redeem itself today, not winning the tie (it'll take a miracle) but at least try to win the game
     
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  16. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    Maybe Baggio’s 900 page report has the answer and they should go back and read it. Or see what Spain is doing. 15 years too late like you said.

     
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  17. itaNapoli

    itaNapoli Member

    Jun 15, 2004
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  18. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    In a perfect world it would be nice for Italian talents to stay in Italy and develop and for the country to form an identity or rediscover the old one. However what is happening now in Italy? What is the zeitgeist? What is the current culture? It’s all going in the wrong direction. Most coaches go to 3-5-2 because it feeds in to the more cynical aspects of Italian football philosophy. Over the course of years what do you think that does to player development? And even worse player recruitment?

    One of my favorite Mazzarri stories is when ADL had full agreements with both Verratti and Pescara for his transfer of 12 million. And Mazzarri told ADL “With all due respect, you can buy the player, but I’m never going to let the little boy play.” And just like that the deal was dead and Marco went to PSG. This happened in 2012 but understand that Italy is a country filled with coaches who see the game exactly like Mazzarri.
     
  19. Pambiero

    Pambiero Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Mar 21, 2021
    Zaccagni officially out of the playoffs with injury
     
  20. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    A great chance to make a forward looking selection in my opinion
     
  21. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This is a really good video from Samuele Mandaro who is a match analyst and does the Gazzetto Dello Sport podcast. Here he highlights why Inter and the national team have difficulty unlocking teams that play with a low block. And it’s because both are overly reliant on Dimarco’s left foot. Some stats from the last 50 scoring chances created by both Italy and Inter:

    - 62% of all of Italy’s scoring chances came from Dimarco’s left foot. Those were from crosses, set pieces and shots from distance.

    - almost identical for inter at 54%

    Both teams suffer from not having a plan B. Both Italy and Inter don’t have wingers that are able to unlock defences

     
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  22. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    enter Fede. at least he'll be rested .... thanks Slot!

    [​IMG]
     
  23. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    It is a worry as every team we face in the playoffs likely will sit back in a low block. we really need to score as early as possible. or we need to be extremely brave and play a 433/442. it is no wonder that we were much better in the nations league against France Belgium Germany than we were in qualifying. We are set up to spoil top nations not to break down smaller ones. We also treated Norway like a small nation and they killed us on the counter.
     
  24. Azores1994

    Azores1994 Member

    Sporting
    Portugal
    Nov 17, 2024
    Tonali just came off, doesn't look good..
     
  25. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    It never ends with this team.

     

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