Senior Team Discussion

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Vieri's Left Foot, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    With the exception of Mancini's 2021 Euro win, the national team program has been a clown show for 11 years.
     
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  2. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Truer words have never more been spoken.
     
  3. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Looks like I was right.
     
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  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Going back even further, even Italy's performances at the 2010 -14 World Cup Tournaments where they exited from the Group stage, finishing 26th and 22nd, respectively, the national team has stunk it up.

    Getting second place in the Euro final in 2012 and winning it in 2021, was good but then they always regressed backwards after those finals.
     
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  5. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Gattuso is still in pole position to get the job. Mancini is currently on a PR tour to try to apologize for abandoning the ship. No one from the FIGC has called him
     
  6. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You know how Italians are they see Mancini as a coach who has won something. They don’t like uncertainty that’s why Lippi got the job again after Donadoni.
     
  7. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I see Mancini having a better chance than Gattuso, given the choices we currently have I'd welcome him back. Remember, he gave us the euro and the longest unbeaten streak in international football.
     
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  8. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    And that’s why they’ll rehire him.
     
  9. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Unfortunately the stink of missing out on 2022 outweighs the victory of the euros. Also he didn’t have a clue in the subsequent games. And then he ran away for money while giving some bogus excuse. He’s not coming back
     
  10. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Mancini would come back and exactly like Spalletti, he would try to make this national team “play a nice football” which will end up in another disaster
     
  11. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #9011 TorontoCalabria, Jun 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2025
    I think there are two things that have happened here. The 2010s were a down period for Italian football after the 80s 90s 2000s without question. Calciopoli was as much a blow to Italian football as the Grande Torino was in the 1950s which was another lost decade.

    With that said if you look at Italy's history we have never managed to both do well at World Cups and Euros it's usually one cycle or the other. For a while we were on World Cup cycles failing to qualify for 92 but reaching the 94 final group stage exit in 96 but taking France to penalties in 98.

    As bad as the 2010s were we reached as many finals in the 2010s as we did in the 1970s and the result in the final of Euro 2012 was about as good as the result in 1970 vs Brazil. The 2020s have been an improvement for Italian Football no Calico is not back but we have won a tournament something many nations simply can't do. Ask Belgium Holland England and the Dutch. Whatever happens over the next 5 years the 2020s have been a success.

    Winning a tournament every decade is a worthy goal. We've done that. We didn't win a tournament in the 90s 70s 2010s or the 50s.

    I would like for us to be competitive in a world cup this decade and not have to wait until 2030
    I would like to see Italian football modernize but I knew in the back of my head that winning Euro 2020 was a blessing and a curse. People will say why didnt they change everything after failing to qualify for the 2018 world cup! Well they changed a little and won the following Euro why would they then have fear of not qualifying for 2022 or 2026? Im still hoping 2026 is possible but I knew we'd fall into complacent after winning the Euros we always do. I have no doubt if the Euros were played in 2020 and we say made the semi finals that we would have had a good 2022 world cup.

    If we take the 2012 final the 2016 euros and winning Euro 2020 its only a slightly worse decade than 1990-2000 and 1990-2000 has nothing to show for it aside from some under 21 championships. Losing the 1994 final on pks Euros 2000 final in extra time and 1990 semi finals on pks was impressive so I would still give the edge to 90-2000 but again with no trophy.
     
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  12. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    for me no I'd take winning the Euros over going to the Qatar world cup. In fact I think we literally made that trade. I have no doubt that the reason we failed in 2022 was because we won the Euros it was just a catch 22 situation. Italy loves to be poetic. I never thought I'd see us win a Euros and adding a 2nd Euro championship means more than just competing in a world cup we weren't going to win long term. We needed that to keep up with Germany's tally.
     
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  13. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This feels like an impossible situation
     
  14. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    I think Mancini righting a wrong would be a cool story. I also think that he could pick up where he left off and make a strong 433 with this group. Even at the Euros we did not have the midfield or attackers to play how he played in 2021. We don't have Jorginho and Verratti to play possession as he did but Tonali Barella Ricci are strong and could be very good counter attacking 433.

    If all he does is qualify us it would be worth it. After that you maybe start fresh. 2022-2024 were awkward years for the national team. Verratti Insigne Acerbi and others needed to be involved the year lost with Tonali and Fagioli did damage as did the injuries to Chiesa Zaniolo and Scamacca.
    On paper we are in a much better place but someone needs to steer the ship.

    I don't even have an opinion at this point whether its Gatusso De Rossi or Mancini its a crapshoot.
    Im just hoping for the best. Ranieri would have been perfect I think but again it's a tough situation with no real room or time to experiment.
     
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  15. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    its a comedy of errors,
     
  16. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    My comments aren't helpful, but it really feels like a snowball effect that is just beyond anyone's control at this point until it crashes completely.
     
  17. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I agree. If we could win 1/5 tournament every decade and not qualify for the other four, I would gladly take that over qualifying 5/5 but winning none each decade (Hello Belgium). Saying that, I rather be greedy and combine the 5/5 with a win every decade lol.

    In all honesty, I'm team Mancini right now. As a child of Neapolitan/Sicilian born parents, I would love to see a Southern Italian like Gattuso take over the national team, but I think Mancini would do a better job overall.
     
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  18. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    I 100% agree with this. We've leaked way too many goals. I think I wrote 29 goals in 24 matches under Spalletti. I honestly can't recall a time in my life where we failed to mark players as much as we are doing now.

    Bastoni just doesn't do it for me. Yes, he's great with his feet, but as a defender he lacks explosion and tenacity. So, I think the problem is a combination of injuries, player selections, and formation. We need a CT that first and foremost can fix the D and build off of that.
     
  19. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    We must live on different planets because I don’t agree at all. The Euro win, while deserved, means nothing when we missed two consecutive world cups. And it’s going to mean even less if we miss a third. And in hindsight gives even more credence to the fact that the win was a flash in the pan (it was). It’s not written in the stars that “we’ll miss a couple of world cups in a row. It’s ok. We’re gonna win a tournament maybe in the next 20 years.” It doesn’t work that way. Reality doesn’t rhyme like that. The way we’re trending, we might even miss the next euro qualifications. There is a massive denial of the talent crisis we have right now.

    I want Italy to go to every tournament, be among the favourites, and fight for every title. I want us to produce champions on the level a Yamal, Doue, Haaland etc. I don’t care about scaramanzia. I want facts not fiction
     
  20. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Also you need to separate the club game and the national team. Serie A could have reached some finals here and there. It means ******** ALL when the numbers of foreigners in Serie A keeps going up every single season. These have not translated to a stronger national team at all.
     
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  21. Italy08

    Italy08 Member

    Jun 7, 2008
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This is an excellent an analysis.

    look at the List of these players:
    “Verratti Insigne Acerbi and others needed to be involved the year lost with Tonali and Fagioli did damage as did the injuries to Chiesa Zaniolo and Scamacca.”


    1)Veratti
    2) Acerbi
    3) Fagioli
    4) Tonali: Tonali is the only player that has improved and showed moments of brilliance
    5)Chiesa: He has barely played for Italy since last Euro.
    6)Scamacca: He played 20 games for Italy and scored one goal.
    7)Zaniolo
    9) spinazzola? I have not seen him play since Euro2020

    You can’t blame the coach so much because Italy has a long list of inconsistent players
     
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  22. Leo Bartoni

    Leo Bartoni Member

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Dec 22, 2024
    The numbers don't lie, your problem is your defense or that your coach doesn't care to get them to play with any sort of cohesion. How do you lose so many aerial duels now?

    Your European cup winning era
    Goals Against Average GAA (2018–2022)

    Team GAA
    Brazil 0.69
    Italy 0.71
    England 0.72
    Argentina 0.77
    Spain 0.79
    Uruguay 0.82
    Portugal 0.83
    Belgium 0.84
    France 0.88
    Netherlands 0.89
    Germany 1.20
    Croatia 1.27

    The last 10 years
    GAA Average (2015–2025)

    Team GAA
    Brazil 0.60
    England 0.67
    Argentina 0.67
    Portugal 0.76
    Italy 0.81
    Belgium 0.82
    Spain 0.83
    France 0.86
    Uruguay 0.87
    Netherlands 0.98
    Croatia 1.04
    Germany 1.11

    The last 3 years
    GAA Average (2023–2025)

    Team GAA
    Argentina 0.33
    England 0.46
    Portugal 0.46
    Croatia 0.54
    Spain 0.62
    France 0.62
    Uruguay 0.63
    Belgium 0.65
    Brazil 0.78
    Netherlands 0.83
    Italy 0.88
    Germany 0.90

    Your Goal Per Game average is not awesome, but it's not the worst of the top 12 teams.

    Goal Per Game Average (2023–2025)
    Team GPG
    Spain 2.58
    Portugal 2.46
    Argentina 2.22
    Netherlands 2.08
    France 2.00
    England 1.97
    Germany 1.83
    Italy 1.51
    Uruguay 1.47
    Croatia 1.46
    Brazil 1.33
    Belgium 1.30
     
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  23. Leo Bartoni

    Leo Bartoni Member

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Dec 22, 2024
    The pain of missing two world cups is too high for some people but I agree with you. That win and that record speaks volumes and if Mancini is saying he made a mistake with the coaching selections available, don't you do the same thing you do with a coach as you should be doing with players and that would be hire or play the best available?

    The fear in here is unshakable it seems. I said it before, and I'll say it again, you are Italy with a task that is not monumental. 6 games and two playoff wins is not impossible or a situation that requires a miracle. I've pointed out the elephant in the room. The first thing the next coach needs to figure out is how to stop the leaks in the back. That's your biggest problem right now as the numbers in the above post show. Fix that.
     
  24. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  25. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Great interview in Italian on Tvplay with Aquila coach Sandro Pochesci. Little long but he goes into the weeds of why Italian player development is a mess right now. Brings up examples of nepotism, shitty club presidents and crooked agents.

     

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