Senior Team Discussion

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Vieri's Left Foot, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    #4576 AGomes, Sep 9, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2024
    Some Italy fans turn their back during the Israeli anthem. From the X page of a Madrid & Italy fan.

    (don't @ me. Just posting a talking point from the stadium. Mods are free to delete if they see fit.)

     
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  2. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    IMG_5479.jpeg

    Frattesi always makes sure to show love for his country and national team when he scores.

    #BOMBER
     
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  3. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    -Berardi, 30. I'd say his time is up with the NT, we have better quality like Orsolini and Politano.
    -Zaniolo, unless some miracle happens I don't see him being anything more than an average player with wasted potential
    -Locatelli, don't see him coming back to the NT unless as a designated sub or if we have significant injuries
    -Scamacca is in a "wait and see" situation, I don't get the hate for him because he's deadly.

    The obvious ones are the Romans, they've all been pretty mediocre lately but I wouldn't count them completely out.
     
  4. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Upon watching the game last night:

    * The goal we gave up is a garbage goal. I do not blame Dolla. For me, two more players should have charged down the shot. Instead 2-3 players gave a half-hearted attempt or just put there arms behind their backs and essentially hoped the ball would hit them. This is an easy goal to avoid and I'm a bit upset at this goal. A simple square step up by two players and that shot doesn't even get off. I'm annoyed watching this goal over and over.

    *Bastoni great player. With him and Calafiori in the lineup together, we have a high standard of ball advancement.

    *Bellanova had a good game. I expected a poor game based on the comments here. He's unfairly bashed, he was in a great position all night. I suspect he got a lot of criticism because of his embarrassing attempt at goal in the first half. He belongs and played well.

    *Ricci graded at a 6.4, but I'm struggling with this rating because once again he was a good regista. The midfield had a very similar game to the one vs. France.

    *Keep Giacchefrattesi in his position. he covers ground and the whole point is he can run at the goal into advanced positions. Play him as striker and you'll learn soon why he's not a striker. Imagine him playing with his back to goal....yikes.

    *Good game Raspa. well done. he's a strange looking dude also.

    *Kean graded at a 7.1 and deserved every point of that rating. Good shift. Again, I can't see why he's bashed. Worked his tail off. Held up the ball well. Distributed. Took his "easy" goal well, which was anything but easy. Great work.

    *When Di Marco wants to be Di Marco, he is a joy to watch.
     
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  5. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This is a key insight from the game.
     
  6. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes and to be fair like Kean and a lot of Juve players I would not judge his ability to play in this role based on his time under Allegri. I have no doubt he would have faired better at Atalanta in the Lookman role.

    No he is not really a link up man but if he is in a free role behind the striker he can cause havoc and with that midfield behind him and Fratessi pushing forward he could easily overlap onto the right. Regardless he will get his chance like all others and he's not a bad impact sub to bring on.
     
  7. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I agree that 3-5-2 is the way to go forward, but 3-4-3 is not a grand departure from 3-5-2. It’s a more offensive alternative especially if you have good wingers. For me it should be the formation when we play lesser opponents like Israel
     
  8. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    I still think you have to find a way to get Chiesa on the field. You just can't waste that talent. Maybe it is in a 3-4-3 or maybe it is as a seconda punta (I know it's not his position but again his speed and skill are deadly at opening room for others).
     
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  9. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member+

    Club: Frosinone
    Mar 29, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I agree and I think he could fit the secunda punta role fine if he is allowed some freedom
     
  10. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Zaniolo, Zaccagni, SES, Politano, Orsolini, Baldanzi, Gnonto. Those are the reasons why we dont try a 3-4-3. We dont have a quality winger across from Chiesa. Even our promising youth options like Pafundi and Liberali are more like #10s.
     
  11. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    So with a 3-4-3 that includes Chiesa, what could he the Lineup?
     
  12. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    @Vieri#9

    What you wrote during the PBP...

    Could be you were getting Belgium's match with Israel confused with Italy's. Turns out although the Belgium vs Israel match was played in Hungary, this match was designated as Belgium's Home Match. Belgian FA said they couldn't provide a location in Belgium for Israel without civil unrest.
     
  13. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Speaking of Baldanzi, he just destroyed a very good U21 Norway team. Hat trick with 2 very nice goals.

    Him, Pafundi, Liberali. They all are very similar players.
     
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  14. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes a 343 would be big mistake. the 3511 with a false 10 pushing forward where its sometimes a 3421 is the way to go. You can't play with wingers when our midfield and wingbacks are our strength.

    The reality is Chiesa is so far from being a player to build around. He needs to adapt and frankly prove himself. He is no longer a pure winger post injury. He will have to work behind a striker as an inside forward second striker.

    example...



    -----------------------------------Retegui
    ---------------------------------------------Cheisa
    Dimarco---------------Tonali--------------Barella----------Cambiaso
    ---------------------------------------Ricci

    Chiesa can drift wide and Cambiaso can tuck in or he can drift left and Barella/Fratessi can push up as an AM to make a 3421 shape at times. Basically he can float.
     
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  15. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Baldanzi is better than Pellegrini he should be starting for Roma. If one of Baldanzi Pafundi Liberarli can come good as a number 10 before 2026 that would be ideal as that is the one player really missing from our current set up and really we have not had a real 10/fantatista since Cassano which is wild given our history. Maybe Insigne but for me he was not really a creative player.
     
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  16. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Raspadori looks big compared to these guys and that is the issue.

    Cassano could hold up play bc he had a lot of physical strength for his size plus he was way more inventive than these players.

    Insigne was the smallest but he could literally dribble anywhere he wanted past defenders. These guys from what I've seen only cut in from the right.
     
  17. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #4592 Vieri's Left Foot, Sep 10, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2024
    I never thought I'd make such an argument, but: If someone is going to play out of position, but needs to be on the field, it's Frattesi more than Chiesa, at this point in time.

    Also, it's a bit of a shame that Dimarco isn't suited as a fullback, because I think 4-3-2-1 makes a lot of sense for a lot of the midfielders and forwards we have, but 3-5-2 makes a lot of sense for the defenders and wingbacks we have, and that's better for the best players* on the team, right now.

    *I don't know quite how to say what I mean. Put another way: I think it makes sense to cater to the centerbacks and the wingbacks, moreso than to the forwards, and the attacking mids.
     
  18. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yeah the issue is there are no alternatives in the 4231. You could play Udogie and Califiori at LB but you'd have to basically cut Di Marco. Chiesa is really the only winger you just end up with a euro 2024 situation again.

    the 352/3511 you have so many options and the defenders are much more comfortable. it also frees up Bastoni Califiori to make runs up the pitch.

    Mancini had Insinge Chiesa Berardi Bernadeschi and Verratti Jorginho who could keep possesion on a Pep/Spain like fashion of the highest order. Our wingbacks in Udogie Di Marco Cambiaso and a few others coming up are better wingers than our best wingers.

    The under 21 team played a 4321 today with a proper number 10 and who knows that could be an option for the future but we just don't suit the 433 or any variation of it. Our strikers also become isolated in these formations and none of them can really carry the ball themselves. It just makes us bang average while the 3511 makes us as good as an Inter and a team that can beat anyone on our day.
     
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  19. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Are there highlights, or a replay, of that match, anywhere?

    Update: Here's Baldanzi's third goal. Not great defending on a player with a brace.

    1833568900568781231 is not a valid tweet id
     
  20. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Here are the quick highlights:



    If there is an extended one, I'll post it later.
     
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  21. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Nice. Thanks.

    (Gnonto was cooking in these highlights)
     
  22. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    I must had missed this, but Spalletti was asked about Locatelli right before the Nations League:

    "Locatelli we know him well and he is doing well, he is inside the group that we think can be part of the national team."

    Interesting. If he rejoins, Tutto Mercato is suggesting Brescianini, Zaccagni, and Fagioli are out for Barella, Chiesa, and Locatelli.

    They forgot to mention Zaniolo, who Spalletti will pick even with little playing time.
     
  23. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    my gut instinct is Locatelli will be included moving forward. I think his omission this time was Spalletti sending him a message for his actions (ie - Locatelli posting on instagram after his euro snub).
     
  24. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    the thing is there are only so many spots. they've been bringing 23 players at a time so that everyone is part of the group and there are not another 8 guys juts hanging around so for everyone besides Barella Tonali Ricci Fratessi it is going to come down to form.

    If Brescianini lights it up with Atalanta or Locatelli plays well for Juve etc etc I am sure they will find spots. This is the first time in a long time that we have the depth and a crop of young players on the cusp that quality players will be left home. Its a good thing. Being a decent italian player that starts in Serie A for a top 10 side is no longer a guarantee to be selected. Maybe for the first time since 2006 that this will be the case.

    A Locatelli or Fagioli could be in a Tacchinardi Blasi Pessotto like situation where they start for Juve and are not on the national team just as an example of course both of those two could be included while others are left out.

    The thing is it's not just about individual quality it's about player profile. You only need so many regista's or mezzalas having a Brescianini on the bench instead of a Locatelli gives you something different.

    I see it like this

    Mezzalas
    Barella
    Tonali
    Fratessi

    then
    Locatelli etc

    Registas
    Ricci
    Fagioli

    then
    Prati
    Pissili
    Bove
    Crsitane etc

    Number 10s
    Brescianini
    Pellegrini

    then

    Baldanzi etc

    so you will have to take the position of someone in your role that is in the side currently and that's just the way it is. Good problem to have.
     
  25. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    I think Spalletti wants to learn from the 2024 cycle and avoid 28-man Callups just to have to cut them and then have to hear the likes of Jack Bonaventura voice his displeasure.
     

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